Ray is a disapointment "so far"

[The Doctor]

How anyone can say Farren Ray is a disappointment is mind numbing.

He is 15 months into his AFL career. What do people expect from him? Just because Farren Ray isn't in Brownlow contention at the minute then he must be a dud. Is that it?

Some people make the most outrageous comments on here sometimes. These young footballers generally take several years to adjust and be AFL ready. We can't expect them to just burst onto the scene and dominate. It is a very rare footballer that does that.

Farren Ray will be a fantastic footballer. His best footy is several years away. Just as it is for Cooney, Minson, Walsh and all our younger players.

I think people should consider the facts and be realistic about their expectations of young players who are still in their AFL infancy.

 

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Note my title does say "so far"
I stick by that with 10 games so far I am a bit disapointed in him, Colin Sylvia winning the rising star amplified my feelings this morning and probably edged to write the post.
I dont mind having posted it if the kid comes out in the rest of the season and starts showing a bit fine I was wrong.
But I dont mind putting the thread on the board because he is a high pick number 4, he might not have been our highest pick for 2003 but he was higher than most of our others in years gone past.
I thought 18 months ago when we drafted him that he might have done more than 10 games with a game high 11 possesions against Collingwood in R1.
Maybe Cooney and Griffen have raised my expectations on the kid and where he's meant to be at to unrealistic highs.

It's shows what an exciting time we should have ahead of us to be even having this debate. There's a depth of talent coming along at out club that is exciting even to relatively grizzled old supporters like me
I too think the progression of Cooney as opposed to Ray has been much more and noticeable and may raise expectations on others. I prefer to see Ray's progression in a similar ( but obviously more developed) vein to Williams, that of a slow burner!! It'll take a while to reach high temperature

 

[Pugsta]

Farren Ray is going to be the final key to our emerging midfield within 2-3 years, in my opinion ...
We may then find that young Farren becomes the best of all of our midfield prospects.

YHF - what a great post. This is an example of why I enjoy this Board so much.

 

[Borgsta]

Note my title does say "so far"

If thats the case then you must be disappointed by Griffen's progress so far with people selected behind him playing more games than him.

 

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

How anyone can say Farren Ray is a disappointment is mind numbing.

He is 15 months into his AFL career. What do people expect from him? Just because Farren Ray isn't in Brownlow contention at the minute then he must be a dud. Is that it?

Some people make the most outrageous comments on here sometimes. These young footballers generally take several years to adjust and be AFL ready. We can't expect them to just burst onto the scene and dominate. It is a very rare footballer that does that.

Farren Ray will be a fantastic footballer. His best footy is several years away. Just as it is for Cooney, Minson, Walsh and all our younger players.

I think people should consider the facts and be realistic about their expectations of young players who are still in their AFL infancy.

Beautifully put!!

 

[acker]

It's shows what an exciting time we should have ahead of us to be even having this debate. There's a depth of talent coming along at out club that is exciting even to relatively grizzled old supporters like me
I too think the progression of Cooney as opposed to Ray has been much more and noticeable and may raise expectations on others. I prefer to see Ray's progression in a similar ( but obviously more developed) vein to Williams, that of a slow burner!! It'll take a while to reach high temperature

I still vividly remember 1997/98 we have to get everything together for one big hit at the prize because we havent got the finances of an interstater or Collingwood-Essendon-Carlton to keep our best and finest for years on end.

 

[Top Dog]

Note my title does say "so far"
I stick by that with 10 games so far I am a bit disapointed in him, Colin Sylvia winning the rising star amplified my feelings this morning and probably edged to write the post.

To be honest Sylvia was lucky to get the rising star nomination IMO. He played okay V Hawks, 11 possies, 2 goals and then played well on Saturday V Blues. However, I thought others ala T.Cloke who have been more consistent this year would have gotten the nod. They are hard to judge.

I dont mind having posted it if the kid comes out in the rest of the season and starts showing a bit fine I was wrong.
But I dont mind putting the thread on the board because he is a high pick number 4, he might not have been our highest pick for 2003 but he was higher than most of our others in years gone past.
I thought 18 months ago when we drafted him that he might have done more than 10 games with a game high 11 possesions against Collingwood in R1.
Maybe Cooney and Griffen have raised my expectations on the kid and where he's meant to be at to unrealistic highs.

"Ray will be a STAR" - Top Dog 24/5/2005. Bookmark me on that.

Rewind back to the 2004 wizard cup and leaving the dome that night with yet another loss to the ************s at Walletland one thing brought a smile to my face. It was Ray, he outperformed Cooooney that night and we have all seen how far Cooney has come since that match. He was poised, couragous, displayed a set of quick hands and seemed to have a knack for being in the right spot at the right time. Without setting the world on fire, he contributed and looked a classy type already.

He hasnt been given the same opportunity as the likes of Cooney, McLean & Bradley but once he is given that opportunity dont worry we will not be dissapointed. Sylvia has only started to be given extended periods on the ground lately and his performances have improved as a result. Lets not forget that he is built like a brick ********house for a kid and even so he had to bide his time whilst the Dees had numerous midfield options. We are doing the right thing by Ray, let him develop and mature against some smaller bodies rather then let him get smashed by less talented thugs in the seniors.

Another point is that you cannot compare Griffen and Ray. Griffen is already built like a man and if you saw the game on Sunday some of his tackles were sensational. Just drilled the blokes into the turf. Ray on the otherhand is still built like a kid and we will just have to nurture him as best we can so that we can see his talents come to fruition in the coming years. If that means playing a balancing act with senior action and werribee action then so be it.

 

[acker]

Just remember allthough I know he has nowhere near the body that in our last premiership our then boom recruit Ted Whitten who started playing for us in 1951 which would have been the equivelant to being drafted in 1950, was playing in a premiership for us in 1954.
All I'm trying to ellude to is that the clock is ticking.

 

[Borgsta]

Just remember allthough I know he has nowhere near the body that in our last premiership our then boom recruit Ted Whitten who started playing for us in 1951 which would have been the equivelant to being drafted in 1950, was playing in a premiership for us in 1954.
All I'm trying to ellude to is that the clock is ticking.

OMFG the clock is ticking. The kid aint even 20 yet and has been in the system for 15 months. Give me a break.

 

[Derek Zoolander]

This thread show everything Bigfooty has to offer. The good and the (very) bad.

 

[The Doctor]

All I'm trying to ellude to is that the clock is ticking.

then let it tick, you shouldn't be so impatient.

Young kids are drafted for the longer term. You can't expect immediate results. The majority of players don't properly mature or enter their peak years until they are 23-24. Our crop of 99 are evidence of this. Ray is only 18-19. His time will come and I'm sure it will be very exciting when it does.

 

[acker]

then let it tick, you shouldn't be so impatient.

Young kids are drafted for the longer term. You can't expect immediate results. The majority of players don't properly mature or enter their peak years until they are 23-24. Our crop of 99 are evidence of this. Ray is only 18-19. His time will come and I'm sure it will be very exciting when it does.

Dont be impatient ! How many players get to retire after 30, not as many as you think.
Will we still be able to fit him in our salary cap with Cooney, Minson, Murphy, Giansiracusa, Gilbee etc when he's hitting his peak in 2009. I would have also hoped we had won a "flag" by then, which I thought was the primary motivation for drafting him.

 

[The Doctor]

Dont be impatient ! How many players get to retire after 30, not as many as you think.
Will we still be able to fit him in our salary cap with Cooney, Minson, Murphy, Giansiracusa, Gilbee etc when he's hitting his peak in 2009. I would have also hoped we had won a "flag" by then, which I thought was the primary motivation for drafting him.

I want to win a flag this year. I would suggest if we are in a position to challenge for a flag at anytime in the next few years then Farren Ray will be an integral part of that challenge.

In any case your comment about Ray being a disappointment is wrong in the extreme.

 

[acker]

I want to win a flag this year.

Thank christ some common ground, good night.

 

[bogan4life]

Just remember allthough I know he has nowhere near the body that in our last premiership our then boom recruit Ted Whitten who started playing for us in 1951 which would have been the equivelant to being drafted in 1950, was playing in a premiership for us in 1954.
All I'm trying to ellude to is that the clock is ticking.

ok so Ted Whitten was a star in 1952 was he? have you watched him then?
did he tear games apart in his 2nd year?

other then those who where alive when he played who post on BF i think i can tell you that Young Ed wasnt a Star in 1952 after being on the clubs list for 2 years he was young and raw needed time from what ive been told


i can tell you that in the first semi final in 1951 he was learing the ropes in 1951 accross half forward and not playing a big role
1951 side
B DONALD HENDERSON CONNELLY
HB MARTIN SCANLAN GALLAGHER
C HENDERSON BOX MCLAREN
HF WHITTEN COLLINS LAFFEY
F RICHARDS EDWARDS LINTON
R BRYDEN MCRAE SUTTON
INTER ABBEY WOOD

compare this to 54 where the younger ones had started to devolp

B DONALD HENDERSON BRYDEN
HB MARTIN WHITTEN GALLAGHER
(is know as one of the best defences of all time)
C MCCARTHY ROSS REYNOLDS
HF DUFFY BOX STOCKMAN
F GILMORE COLLINS SUTTON
R STEVENS EDWARDS KERR
INTER NUTTAL ABBEY

Players like Box Whitten Stevens have taken other hey postions and had been giving there time to devolep

i see a the 51 team and the team now a lot the same good young player who need time
you can not compare Ray to whitten compare him to Kerr who was at the dogs in 51 but not getting a game but was bog in the granny
i think we have some good young players that ompare will to the 54 side
for example Minson is Stevens a young ruckman who lets the more experencied players a chance to play somewhere else

remember Ray was not pick one and should never never be compared to Whitten when it comes to devolpment

 

[Go_The_Coon]

Shoot I mixed up Murphy's and Alvey's drafting years

No you didn't.

 

[Dry Rot]

I would'nt have an issue with Farren Ray being at this development stage if we had picked him up later in the draft. But we picked him up at 4th pick which does concern me. As I said earlier I think Ryan Griffin who we picked up at 3rd pick this year, is more advanced and polished than Farren is, and Farren has had 12 months head start on him.
By the way in 2003 I thought that Gilbee and Giansiracusa should get game time.

I was one of the loudest critics here about picking up Ray. My concern was not about Ray himself but that we should have got a tall.

But we didn't. So I presume the argument here is only about Ray and his development.

I have only seen him in a handful of games, and I think he's done well for a currently lightframed player. But it's far too early to make a call, even "so far".

 

[peterss]

I went to school with Farren and we are good mates. He only started playing Football at school about a year before he got drafted in whcih he played for the Peel Thunder Colts and Reserves and got a few games in the League team towards the end of the season.

He has the skill to be a great football player after he has some games under his belt at AFL Level and once he has bulked up a bit more...

But i would definately not call him a dissapointment

 

[Aquamarinejewel]

Farren has only played a handful of games...far too early to make judgements on him. Give him time! Remember, Rome wasn't built in a day...we should be giving the kid confidence...not resorting to calling him a disappointment, because he is far from that.

 

[oporto]

I was one of the loudest critics here about picking up Ray. My concern was not about Ray himself but that we should have got a tall.

But we didn't. So I presume the argument here is only about Ray and his development.

I have only seen him in a handful of games, and I think he's done well for a currently lightframed player. But it's far too early to make a call, even "so far".

Give the kid time, but several points need to be made;
.genetics - have any of you seen his parents? I don't believe he can/will be able to bulk up. Perhaps he doesn't need to.
.4th draft pick- got picked very high for an "emerging player" Higher picks usually mean more ready made afl players (I said "usually")
.AIS- guys who make the academy(as ray did) usually get their tyres pumped fairly heavily by Sheean, particularly given ray's excellent middle distance running results. AIS endorsement is sometimes good enough for recruiters.
.arguement about soccer Vs football skills (he played junior soccer aparently) should be dismissed given soccer players adapt much easier to football than footballers to soccer. His kicking action though, remain suspect (particularly on his left side)
.upside (compared to sylvia/mclean)-only time will tell but they are playing and getting TOG. He is not
Acker has openned dialogue on the issue however many posting here seem far to precious to be objective.

 

[Top Dog]

Give the kid time, but several points need to be made;
.genetics - have any of you seen his parents? I don't believe he can/will be able to bulk up. Perhaps he doesn't need to.
.4th draft pick- got picked very high for an "emerging player" Higher picks usually mean more ready made afl players (I said "usually")
.AIS- guys who make the academy(as ray did) usually get their tyres pumped fairly heavily by Sheean, particularly given ray's excellent middle distance running results. AIS endorsement is sometimes good enough for recruiters.
.arguement about soccer Vs football skills (he played junior soccer aparently) should be dismissed given soccer players adapt much easier to football than footballers to soccer. His kicking action though, remain suspect (particularly on his left side)
.upside (compared to sylvia/mclean)-only time will tell but they are playing and getting TOG. He is not
Acker has openned dialogue on the issue however many posting here seem far to precious to be objective.

* Everyone can put on substantial LBM (Lean body mass) through weight training and diet. The dogs are/were sponsored by GNC so I have no doubt that the fitness staff down there would be pumping weight gainers, protein and creatine into the youger players. He may not end up looking like Kouta, that is genetics pure and simple but he will be able to put on some substantial weight/muscle that will alow him to handle the rigors of AFL footy.
* Have to trust Claytons judgement as he would have seen alot of him to make the call to draft him so high.
* Cant argue with you there. That Sheehan bloke seems to 'pump' everyones tyres up regardless of whether they are in the AIS or not. Im sure some of his 'pumping' is warranted in some instances. On the other hand, some may not.
* Totally agree with you there.
* Hasnt been given the same opportunity as Brock & Col. Body size may have something to do with this. As Both Mclean & Sylvia are solid midfield types already. Ray appears to have more upside, though it is arguable whether we have seen what Sylvia is really capable of yet. Too hard to judge. Give them 3 years.

 

[acker]

I'm not arguing wether he should have been drafted or wether he will have a future
I just expected more "bang for the buck" from a number 4 pick, if the kid had have been picked up as a later pick like Jordan McMahon and developed slowly I would'nt have wrote this post.
But nobody during the 60 - odd replys has changed my veiw that a few players Ray was selected ahead of and I mean the immediate ones McLean, Bradley, Tennace and Clarke may have given us more value from our 4 pick.
Some of those guys are delivering short term success, that doesnt mean they wont deliver long term as well.
My personal veiw now is that we should have used it on Kepler Bradley.

And talking about number 4 picks I am disapointed with Tim Walsh as well but thats another story.

 

[The Doctor]

I'm not arguing wether he should have been drafted or wether he will have a future
I just expected more "bang for the buck" from a number 4 pick, if the kid had have been picked up as a later pick like Jordan McMahon and developed slowly I would'nt have wrote this post.
But nobody during the 60 - odd replys has changed my veiw that a few players Ray was selected ahead of and I mean the immediate ones McLean, Bradley, Tennace and Clarke may have given us more value from our 4 pick.
Some of those guys are delivering short term success, that doesnt mean they wont deliver long term as well.
My personal veiw now is that we should have used it on Kepler Bradley.

And talking about number 4 picks I am disapointed with Tim Walsh as well but thats another story.

what makes you think Rapheal Clarke is going to be any better than Ray? or Tenace for that matter?

When Ray was drafted I was calling for McLean or Bradley to be recruited ahead of young Farren as I felt they were players more suited to our needs. In fact I had a few others like Waters on the preference list as well. But these boys were always going to step up to league ranks quicker than Ray on accoount of their advanced physical development. Doesn't mean they will ultimately be better players. Ray being much slighter was always going to need an extra year or two to develop his body to a level capable of sustaining AFL footy week in and week out.

 

[John Gent]

Players like Box Whitten Stevens have taken other hey postions and had been giving there time to devolep

i see a the 51 team and the team now a lot the same good young player who need time

for example Minson is Stevens a young ruckman who lets the more experencied players a chance to play somewhere else

Stevens was playing for Collingwood in 1951

 

[Borgsta]

I'm not arguing wether he should have been drafted or wether he will have a future

So what was the purpose of this post. Are you disappointed in Griffen at the moment?