Realistically what does Collingwood need to win a Grand Final?

[ThePhantom777]

5. Make a play for a Gaff/Shiel type.
6. Sier needs to have another preseason in Thailand. If we can get his fitness up and gametime % he will be one of the best midfielders in the league soon.
9. The players need to feel this hurt from missing out, because they need to desperately not want to let another opportunity slip if we make it there again because frankly they shat themselves on Saturday. The occasion got to them.

5. Yep if Gaff is coming to Melbourne we should be all over him.
6. 55% game time yesterday for 21 possies!? He'll be a 30+ possession player once he can play four quarters.
9. Yep. We panicked a lot trying to kick goals from loose balls in the 3rd and 4th quarter. Everyone was trying to be the hero.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

We are in a window now. Landing a gaff, sheil would be massive

We need a kpp

 

[legendstatus]

I work of the theory one year of drafting kids the next year go for experience players. One year off/on, at least plan for it!


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[Good_Old]

To answer the question in the thread title, score more than our opponents.

 

[El cane]

What if we play Mihocek back?

I'm sure he wasn't recruited to play up front. It just happened and it stuck when Reid and Moore went down whilst the back six was settled.

Makes the forward options potentially Moore appealling!

 

[Black_White]

Hmmmm.....
We have a coach who has a playing/coaching games record without winning a Premiership.
The man is CURSED!

 

[GetAroundHim99]

For me, in addition to what has been said above regarding trading and list management etc., the club needs to become vicious and ruthless off the field.

We are one of, if not, the biggest sporting teams in the country, with a highly influential President and passionate supporter base. We need to be spending triple what anyone else is spending - if we have to pay equalisation, so be it.

The spending itself should be a mix of spending on technology, club facilities and player development on the one hand, and what might be called soft power, or in some instances the dark arts, on the other.

By this I mean that we do everything to undermine the other 17 clubs in the competition, starting with Melbourne by removing our gate giving arrangement with them on Queen's Birthday. We employ journalists to leak damaging information about other club's players who have done the wrong thing, a la Slobbo and the list leaked prior to our first game against Sydney a few years back.

Like political candidates and incumbents, we should be looking to employ powerful lobbyists who lobby for the club both within the AFL and within the wider community.

If we're already doing much of the above, our methods need to be reviewed. If we're not, the question needs to be asked 'why not?'.

Carlton did this back in the 80's & 90's with John Elliott and look where this lead Carlton. A shell of it's former self still trying to chase after the glory days thinking that Quick Fixes will fix their problems and that they can't do no wrong.

Soft Power and Undermining the Competition leads to Arrogance, Arrogance leads to Blindness, Blindness leads to Incompetence, Incompetence leads to the downfall of an empire.

The only way you can be a powerhouse in this league is investing into your infrastructure and recruiting and making them the most effective it can be. You're right about the fact that the club perhaps does need to spend more than other clubs to get an edge but being more ruthless off the field will just show that we didn't pay attention to the mistakes of Carlton in the John Elliot Years. And that's just one of the examples I could have used.

It might seem like a way to win to begin with but in the end, It always leads to a huge downfall that sees a club spending a long time trying to pick itself up again. Plus, I think the last thing that Collingwood would want to be is more like Carlton, Especially during their last 20 years in the league.

Besides this, I would agree with most posters here that we really only need to make small moves this off-season. Like, Let's not follow what Adelaide did last off-season. We've got a good core/base.

 

[brysie]

Carlton did this back in the 80's & 90's with John Elliott and look where this lead Carlton. A shell of it's former self still trying to chase after the glory days thinking that Quick Fixes will fix their problems and that they can't do no wrong.

Soft Power and Undermining the Competition leads to Arrogance, Arrogance leads to Blindness, Blindness leads to Incompetence, Incompetence leads to the downfall of an empire.

The only way you can be a powerhouse in this league is investing into your infrastructure and recruiting and making them the most effective it can be. You're right about the fact that the club perhaps does need to spend more than other clubs to get an edge but being more ruthless off the field will just show that we didn't pay attention to the mistakes of Carlton in the John Elliot Years. And that's just one of the examples I could have used.

It might seem like a way to win to begin with but in the end, It always leads to a huge downfall that sees a club spending a long time trying to pick itself up again. Plus, I think the last thing that Collingwood would want to be is more like Carlton, Especially during their last 20 years in the league.

Besides this, I would agree with most posters here that we really only need to make small moves this off-season. Like, Let's not follow what Adelaide did last off-season. We've got a good core/base.

Carlton's mistake was doing something highly illegal and paying players outside of the salary cap. In no way am I advocating for us to do anything illegal.

To me it's not a quick fix. It's a sustained strategy that encompasses a total approach (i.e. football and non-football) to success. We are a powerhouse by most measurements; we need to leverage that.

 

[Collingwoodity]

A fit Elliott, Moore and Scharenberg, with Reid, Wells and Dunn as excellent depth

Put a fit Elliott and Moore out there yesterday and we win

Nope. We lost the midfield battle.


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[Drought Break]

Hmmmm.....
We have a coach who has a playing/coaching games record without winning a Premiership.
The man is CURSED!

Also add Robert Harvey and Gary hocking to that list. We would have a record for the most premierships lost amongst our coaching staff.

 

[jackcass]

Put NicNat and Gaff in there and they win by 4-5 goals.

Gaff isn't in the same discussion, he wasn't injured, he was stupid. Can't cure that.

I'm sure they'd have loved NicNat and Shephard, but I'd have loved all of Moore, Elliott, Reid, Scharenberg, Dunn, Appleby and Wells fit and available for selection. It's all just hypothetical though isn't it.

 

[jackcass]

Decent umpiring in the last 2 1/2 minutes would be good.

FYI 2 Victorian umpires and 1 from WA. Which one do you think was adjudicating that contest?

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All of them.

 

[Horaceg]

Haven't read the whole thread but the key right now is to keep this group in tact.

 

[Justlokan]

Some luck wouldn’t go astray. I know these GFs are not related to previous ones but we always seem to find a way to fall short. Sneaking this one would’ve righted a lot of those lost opportunities but it’s just another chapter in losing one where we shouldn’t have. And I’m not suggesting it’s just players / coaches (in this instance crucial umpiring also cost and not just at the end) but there’s always something which seems to afflict us more than other teams. I know we appear on the right path but it’s small consolation right now no matter how proud we are and how valiant we were against the tide in that last quarter.

luck bounced our way late in the last quarter of the 2010 drawn GF

 

[Justlokan]

WCE 7 big KPP all played well

Darling
Kennedy
Lycett
Schofield
MaGovern
Vardy

We have only 2 of them
Grundy
Cox

Both got double teamed and by the end of the day

Battered!



that's too simplistic. As Bucks said we shouldn't have kicked it so much down the line which brought their talls in play. if we'd played more like the first qtr and spread them everyone would've talked about how slow WC looked.

 

[jackcass]

Well, I guess you could say we'd benefit from more composure.

Which may well come with greater depth of experience.

 

[jackcass]

Good summation of our current position. Will need significant improvement in 2019 to hold our place.

We have a good group of players but some holes. Moore and McLarty are potential keys. Moore could be anything and the cameos he had this year were impressive. McLarty should be ready for a senior debut in 2019 if he is going to make it. If both come on it would be a big fix. De Goey and Stevo are can be big improvers along with Sier. If Elliott could get fit and play a full season that would make a major difference also.

Dunne and Goldy will be on their last legs, Reid looks the same. Wells looks done. Pendles best is behind him. Realistically Thomas and WHE may have had seasons out of the norm for them so goalkicking, our Achilles before this season, could become a problem again. Cox, who personally I had higher hopes for in 2018, did begin to realise those hopes late in the season. If that path is realised and he becomes a 40 goal a season player then we will be much more formidable.

Darcy and Mason as much as any two are crucial to our 2019

The million dollar question none of us can answer with any certainty is can that improvement come from within the current list (developing players, return of injured players, players gaining experience & exposure) or do we need to seek to bolster/change the squad. I'm not sure either side of that argument can make a clear case. For mine, it's a little of both. I don't envy our recruiting team this off season.

 

[jackcass]

A dominant key back and forward. Jesse hogan would be a good start. Dylan Shiel would also be a handy addition as would may. We also need to ponder how this 6-6-6 format is going to aid or hinder us next year and plan accordingly.

Some bloody good medical people to minimise our injury list permanently.

And for gods sake, sign Langdon and Moore - provided he wants to stay on at a reasonable rate.


We shouldn’t have lost yesterday. But those 2 late goals I. The first sealed our fate.


Pies 2019. Redemption.

There is no redemption for losing a GF.

 

[spartan-magpie]

There is no redemption for losing a GF.

There is if you win the next one. IMO.

 

[jackcass]

I also think we need either a small defender that doesn’t shit his pants when he has the ball in hand (so not Appleby or Greenwood) to free up Maynard in a more attacking half back role or a running defender that can break the lines at half back.

Harsh on Appleby given he's played all of 9 games.

 

[jackcass]

Twenty minute quarters

Isn't that what we currently have?

 

[jackcass]

There is if you win the next one. IMO.

Nah, records still say you lost the previous one. Bouncing back just allows you to move forward.

 

[Trickster]

luck bounced our way late in the last quarter of the 2010 drawn GF

Yes, at that point in time it was on our side but only after we were 4 goals up at 1/2 time and nearly 3 when Leon kicked it and they still got back in it. That’s on the back of being dominant all year and we still almost let it slip. Maybe luck’s not the right word in that instance that was more a case of things turning out more difficult for us when they shouldn’t.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Nope. We lost the midfield battle.


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Sure so maybe De Goey plays midfield due to Elliott in...

 

[sr36]

Nope. We lost the midfield battle.


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To turn the tables on the Eagles - What we need is to get a huge preseason into Sier so that he has a proper midfield tank and another 20 games so that he has a bit more confidence with the footy and doesn't just bomb it forward without looking as often. Plus a fully fit Treloar to give us the run that we lacked after quarter time.