Reasons for Melbourne's decline since 1964

[Ancient Tiger]

The quick version
Sacked Norm Smith
Factions
Ron Barrassi left
Factions
Never became a professional club
Split from MCC
Factions
Voted to merge
Factions
Gave Scully Barassi's number
Scully left

Currently
Most Demons supporters today were alive in 1964

Good summary.

The main thing you forgot to mention was the development of the Range Rover 4WD. This enable Melbourne supporters to flock to the ski fields in luxury. Hence their vocal support at games dwindled. With little vocal support, the team performances slipped.

From Wiki...

"The final design, launched in 1970 with bodywork styled largely by the engineering team rather than David Bache's styling division, was marketed as 'A Car For All Reasons'. In its original guise, the Range Rover was more capable off-road than the Land Rover but was much more comfortable, offering a top speed in excess of 100 mph (160 km/h), a towing capacity of 3.5 tons, spacious accommodation for five people and groundbreaking features such as a four-speed, dual-range, permanent four-wheel-drive gearbox and hydraulic disc brakes on all wheels."

 

[Bunk Moreland]

They have the lowest level of passionate support in the state by a long way. North and the Dogs have just as few supporters, but most of them are very passionate and really give a ****. Melbourne supporters have a widespread case of apathy when it comes to footy. There's exceptions but they're in the extreme minority. Don't know why it is, whether their supporters have traditionally viewed footy as just a leisurely pastime rather than a passionate endeavor, I dont know.

I've been to a few Melbourne games over the past few years when they've been terrible, and it's a really strange atmosphere. The opposition will be pouring it in, and the Dees in the stands are laughing... "oh hear we go again lol"... I know it's just anecdotal but it's a bit of an insight into their culture.

If that happens at other clubs, whilst it can be ugly, it's passionate. Supporters are demanding the coach's head and ripping up memberships. Not at the Dees.

My theory is this apathy results in a club culture that is too comfortable, and they therefore aren't ruthless or urgent enough in everything they do, and the results show. The board, executives and coaches at other clubs know they'd better get results and improvement, or the natives (and then the media) will get very restless and make their lives a living hell. It's cut throat. Melbourne is the complete opposite of this, and it shows.

I know Melboune supporters will disagree to some extent, I've had the argument before. I'm not saying passionate MFC supporters dont exist. And if you're at the point where you're regularly posting on a footy forum, you're one of them. There's just nowhere near enough of them compared to other clubs.

 

[Dont be a lemon]

Of course a city can't sustain 9 professional AFL clubs. The less popular ones remain because the AFL is willing to underwrite them. Fitzroy merged with Brisbane because the AFL was no longer willing to underwrite them.

Surely everybody sees this?

I can't think of another city in the world with 9 professional teams in the same league.

 

[Black Diamond]

This was a major factor:

 

[00Stinger]

Melbournes domination had more to do with zoning then anything else

 

[Bluelegs]

ITT: People who haven't actually done any research making grand assumptions and generalisation.

 

[Subprime]

They needed a succession plan.

Norm Smith as director of coaching.

Ron Barassi as coach.

 

[GoldyJr]

No it can't.

For gods sake....wheres your graph?

 

[bombermick]

They have the lowest level of passionate support in the state by a long way. North and the Dogs have just as few supporters, but most of them are very passionate and really give a ****. Melbourne supporters have a widespread case of apathy when it comes to footy. There's exceptions but they're in the extreme minority. Don't know why it is, whether their supporters have traditionally viewed footy as just a leisurely pastime rather than a passionate endeavor, I dont know.

I've been to a few Melbourne games over the past few years when they've been terrible, and it's a really strange atmosphere. The opposition will be pouring it in, and the Dees in the stands are laughing... "oh hear we go again lol"... I know it's just anecdotal but it's a bit of an insight into their culture.

If that happens at other clubs, whilst it can be ugly, it's passionate. Supporters are demanding the coach's head and ripping up memberships. Not at the Dees.

My theory is this apathy results in a club culture that is too comfortable, and they therefore aren't ruthless or urgent enough in everything they do, and the results show. The board, executives and coaches at other clubs know they'd better get results and improvement, or the natives (and then the media) will get very restless and make their lives a living hell. It's cut throat. Melbourne is the complete opposite of this, and it shows.

I know Melboune supporters will disagree to some extent, I've had the argument before. I'm not saying passionate MFC supporters dont exist. And if you're at the point where you're regularly posting on a footy forum, you're one of them. There's just nowhere near enough of them compared to other clubs.

Harsh but fair. They've got their rabid supporters like all clubs (cheer squad, those on BF etc), but they were very comfortable going along on a Sat arvo and marveling at Jurrah - despite the fact the team they were giving polite applause to had just been thrashed, again.

 

[Wallaby]

I don't know. Growing up in a late 60's primary school, Melbourne were the 2nd most popular club (after Collingwood - we did a schoolwide survey). But there never seemed to be any passion amongst their fans. There never seemed to be any great triumphs, controversies, huge recruits (except for Diamond Jim). Add to the fact that they didn't get any success for so long, and they just seemd to hang around a bit and then fade away.............

 

[Black Diamond]

I don't know. Growing up in a late 60's primary school, Melbourne were the 2nd most popular club (after Collingwood - we did a schoolwide survey). But there never seemed to be any passion amongst their fans. There never seemed to be any great triumphs, controversies, huge recruits (except for Diamond Jim). Add to the fact that they didn't get any success for so long, and they just seemd to hang around a bit and then fade away.............

When I was doing Auskick in the mid-90's as a six/seven year old Melbourne and Hawthorn had as many jumpers running around as any other club. I think the subsequent fortunes of each club is exhibited by their passion as you say.

 

[Envelopes]

Of course a city can't sustain 9 professional AFL clubs. The less popular ones remain because the AFL is willing to underwrite them. Fitzroy merged with Brisbane because the AFL was no longer willing to underwrite them.

Surely everybody sees this?

I can't think of another city in the world with 9 professional teams in the same league.

Half of all AFL fans come from Victoria, half the teams come from Victoria simple.

Are there any other sports where half the support comes from one state?
West Coast, Adelaide and Freo are the only interstate teams better off than the weaker Vic teams.

I never understand why people want a league with just 4 teams playing in it.

 

[Parquet Court]

Half of all AFL fans come from Victoria, half the teams come from Victoria simple.

Are there any other sports where half the support comes from one state?
West Coast, Adelaide and Freo are the only interstate teams better off than the weaker Vic teams.

I never understand why people want a league with just 4 teams playing in it.

then one team would have to drop away, do you have a source on this?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

It started going downhill when colour TV came in and they changed the shade of blue they were using.

 

[TimC]

Of course a city can't sustain 9 professional AFL clubs. The less popular ones remain because the AFL is willing to underwrite them. Fitzroy merged with Brisbane because the AFL was no longer willing to underwrite them.

Surely everybody sees this?

I can't think of another city in the world with 9 professional teams in the same league.

London, while not supporting 9 teams in the same league, supports 14 professional football sides:

Arsenal
Chelsea
Tottenham
Fulham
West Ham
QPR

Barnet
AFC Wimbeldon
Crysal Palace
Millwall
Charlton
D&R
Leyton Orient
Brentford

WRT to Melbourne's sustainability for 9 clubs, we have the advantage of being a city that embraces live sport, unlike Sydney...

 

[Father Jack]

It must be a source of shame for the poorer Melbourne clubs that they only get to remain in Melbourne due to the desire of Collingwood, Essendon and Carlton to have few less weeks of travel per season.

 

[Black Diamond]

WRT to Melbourne's sustainability for 9 clubs, we have the advantage of being a city that embraces live sport, unlike Sydney...

And this is really all that matters. If the support is there (which it is in Melbourne) surely that is a better option than having a team in an expansion zone only because "it's a national league".

 

[TimC]

And this is really all that matters. If the support is there (which it is in Melbourne) surely that is a better option than having a team in an expansion zone only because "it's a national league".

Exactly right. The average attendance figures outlined below speak volumes. While West Coast and Adelaide are pretty high up the table, they share a city with 1 other team, Melbourne clubs share the city with 8 other teams, yet for the most part out perform or are close to the majority of interstate clubs.

Club Average Attendance
Collingwood Magpies 56,635
Hawthorn Hawks 45,819
Essendon Bombers 45,227
Carlton Blues 43,873
Richmond Tigers 39,614
West Coast Eagles 35,904
Adelaide Crows 32,225
Geelong Cats 35,003
Sydney Swans 31,901
Fremantle Dockers 30,811
St Kilda Saints 31,601
Melbourne Demons 28,101
North Melbourne Kangaroos 26,485
Western Bulldogs 23,953
Brisbane Lions 23,379
Port Adelaide Power 20,620
Gold Coast Suns 17,604
GWS Giants 15,903

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I would love to know if any city in the world has bigger weekly average sporting crowds than the numbers that the AFL generates in Melbourne.

Possibly London.

 

[Parquet Court]

London, while not supporting 9 teams in the same league, supports 14 professional football sides:

Arsenal
Chelsea
Tottenham
Fulham
West Ham
QPR

Barnet
AFC Wimbeldon
Crysal Palace
Millwall
Charlton
D&R
Leyton Orient
Brentford

WRT to Melbourne's sustainability for 9 clubs, we have the advantage of being a city that embraces live sport, unlike Sydney...

london is a massive place with a pop. of nearly 9 million.

some of the clubs mentioned there have average attendances of well below 10,000 and obviously getting higher for the clubs like fulham, totts, arsenal & chelsea.

they can have so many clubs in the one place as the population is so condensed and the expanses of the country are very small.

 

[Falchoon]

Exactly right. The average attendance figures outlined below speak volumes. While West Coast and Adelaide are pretty high up the table, they share a city with 1 other team, Melbourne clubs share the city with 8 other teams, yet for the most part out perform or are close to the majority of interstate clubs.

because they have more away supporters turn up.......

 

[ziad]

Exactly right. The average attendance figures outlined below speak volumes. While West Coast and Adelaide are pretty high up the table, they share a city with 1 other team, Melbourne clubs share the city with 8 other teams, yet for the most part out perform or are close to the majority of interstate clubs.

Club Average Attendance
Collingwood Magpies 56,635
Hawthorn Hawks 45,819
Essendon Bombers 45,227
Carlton Blues 43,873
Richmond Tigers 39,614
West Coast Eagles 35,904
Adelaide Crows 32,225
Geelong Cats 35,003
Sydney Swans 31,901
Fremantle Dockers 30,811
St Kilda Saints 31,601
Melbourne Demons 28,101
North Melbourne Kangaroos 26,485
Western Bulldogs 23,953
Brisbane Lions 23,379
Port Adelaide Power 20,620
Gold Coast Suns 17,604
GWS Giants 15,903

stadium capacity - hardly a factor???

 

[Falchoon]

Fans deserted and began to support Hawthorn.

Not as stupid as it sounds.

There were a lot of young bandwagoners jumping on board the Hawks in the 70'-80's.

There home ground didn't help the passion of their supporters either, whilst the Blues/Pies/Saints were jamming themselves into 30,000 capacity stadiums, Melbourne's 30,000 had a 100,000 capacity stadium to get lost in.


On field, the zoning reforms of the 60's and Melbourne's shifting demographics were a big nail in the coffin.

 

[Jentleman Geff]

Not as stupid as it sounds.

There were a lot of young bandwagoners jumping on board the Hawks in the 70'-80's.

Fair bit of overlap in the the demographics of both supporters - wealthier, private school educated, eastern suburbs types. Hawthorn's rise in football quality and supporter base mirrors Melbourne's decline in both.

Zoning probably killed them as much as it enabled Hawthorn to dominate.

 

[Father Jack]

london is a massive place with a pop. of nearly 9 million.

some of the clubs mentioned there have average attendances of well below 10,000 and obviously getting higher for the clubs like fulham, totts, arsenal & chelsea.

they can have so many clubs in the one place as the population is so condensed and the expanses of the country are very small.

totts? really?