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AFLW 2024 - Round 8 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Recruiters...At what point?
- Thread starter TheDon35
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Long has been injured every year he has played football.
Why anybody thought he would last in the AFL is beyond me. Wasnt even that talented.
yaco55
Hall of Famer
Most of what you say makes sense.
Just think that there is not a great deal of difference in fitness levels between AFL clubs - notwithstanding clubs that have older lists and therefore residual fitness - and notwithstanding clubs like Fremantle and Kangaroos who had injury plagued pre-seasons - Think that EFC overall had a mid range performance in terms of pre-season training.
Anyway hope that I hope the coach doesn't say in 2014 that we aren't fit enough !
The flogging had to happen at some point.
As far as I understand it, your fitness base is built cumulatively over years of work. Which is not means to be as obvious a statement as it sounds; the mental and physical limitations are increased each year with the season working as a way to maintain the fitness base.
While the 2011 pre-season may have broken a lot of players this year it will serve as a new base for them to work as hard, if not harder during the 2012 preseason.
As a minimum, the training regime went a long way to setting a standard of professionalism that people out of the club thought was lacking.
I'm in your camp- restore some clinical ball skills and it saves wasting petrol on mopping up.
obviously the big hole in our team is the mid 20s bracket - which says bad things about previous recruiting practices but i think they have since righted the ship well with the changes that have been made to the recruiting team (as mentioned on here)
they made the right pick with heppel after mulling over atley and prestia
i'm happy enough with the pick of Melksham
I think the hurley pick will prove to be right after they mulled over yarran and sidebottom for ages. i always thought sidebottom was a speculative pick being talked about over one big gf game. would he be a star now in a lesser team?
the myers pick still has a story to tell.. they were looking at he, rioli and palmer - obviously rioli is the one there but ill wait and see if myers can get his body right.
atleast the recruiting team is heading in the right direction.
they made the right pick with heppel after mulling over atley and prestia
i'm happy enough with the pick of Melksham
I think the hurley pick will prove to be right after they mulled over yarran and sidebottom for ages. i always thought sidebottom was a speculative pick being talked about over one big gf game. would he be a star now in a lesser team?
the myers pick still has a story to tell.. they were looking at he, rioli and palmer - obviously rioli is the one there but ill wait and see if myers can get his body right.
atleast the recruiting team is heading in the right direction.
- Thread starter
- #133
The other item not mentioned in the title is our trading over this period.
a) The players brought in haven't worked: Recent years: Williams, Skipworth, Prismall. Going back further, Murphy, Cole, Camporeale, Allen, Alvy etc. The only hit was McPhee that I can recall.
b) The list management enabled the like of McPhee & Houli to leave with no compensation.
c) The missed opportunity of the McVeigh, Welsh, Hille, NLM as trade potential as 25 - 28yo's Now all bar perhaps Hille (maybe 3rd round, prob 4th) would have any trade value.
I'm not saying that it's all doom and gloom. Far from it. 'Some' excellent decions have been. made. Kyle Hardingham is an example. And as i've agreed with, the '08 and '10 drafts it looks like we've hit the first round. That's great.
I'm not alone in thinking that maybe we could be doing it better though.
a) The players brought in haven't worked: Recent years: Williams, Skipworth, Prismall. Going back further, Murphy, Cole, Camporeale, Allen, Alvy etc. The only hit was McPhee that I can recall.
b) The list management enabled the like of McPhee & Houli to leave with no compensation.
c) The missed opportunity of the McVeigh, Welsh, Hille, NLM as trade potential as 25 - 28yo's Now all bar perhaps Hille (maybe 3rd round, prob 4th) would have any trade value.
I'm not saying that it's all doom and gloom. Far from it. 'Some' excellent decions have been. made. Kyle Hardingham is an example. And as i've agreed with, the '08 and '10 drafts it looks like we've hit the first round. That's great.
I'm not alone in thinking that maybe we could be doing it better though.
- May 6, 2007
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I'll just refer you back to post number 50, on the 26 June at 1945
Dodoro was list manager when we traded in Damian Cupido (gave up Blake Caracella), Adam McPhee (# 55), Mark Alvey (Danny Jacobs), Justin Murphy (Cory McGrath), Richard Cole (# 23), Brent Prismal (# 39) in the last 10 years!
Or should we not hide the fact that we hardly got peanuts for our 2000 premiership stars, look at this stat.
(2001)
OUT: Damian Hardwick (Port Adelaide)
IN: # 31 (Joel Reynolds F/S) & 47 (Andrew Welsh)
(2002)
OUT: Justin Blumfield (Richmond), Blake Caracella (Brisbane), # 55
IN: # 28 Tristan Cartledge, Damian Cupido & # 11 (Jason Laycock), Adam McPhee
(2003)
OUT: Danny Jacobs (Hawthorn), Corey McGrath (Carlton)
IN: Mark Alvey, Justin Murphy, # 6 (Keplar Bradley)
(2005)
OUT: Ted Richards (Sydney), # 23 (Ryan Cook)
IN: # 19 (Courtenay Dempsey) & # 50 (Sam Lonergan), Richard Cole
(2006)
OUT: Dean Solomon & # 52 (Brock O'Brien)
IN: # 42 (Bachar Houli) & # 47 (Kyle Reimers)
(2008)
OUT: # 39
IN: Brent Prismal
(2009)
OUT: Andrew Lovett, # 16 (Jasper Pittard), Jay Nash, # 58
IN: Mark Williams, Jake Carlisle, Anthony Long , # 89/PSD # 7 (Kyle Hardingham)
(2010 - What we missed out on)
OUT: Bachar Houli
IN: # 47 (Bradley Helbig)
So, in short, how many of these 'trades' have we won? The early years where we traded for players like Cupido, Alvey, Murphy, Richard Cole, these were the key years that is still leaving us in the deep end in terms of 'experience 25 - 28 year olds. Sheedy and Dodoro must have thought we were still in the 'window' despite trading out three of our bigger stars (Blumfield, Caracella, Hardwick) within three years of our flag, just trying to pinch another flag. Well it hasnt worked, and to be honest, have we won any of these trades? You could argue Adam Mcphee maybe, All Australian, Best & Fairest winner, but where is he now? Back at Fremantle.
Now onto our poor first round drafting, let us go back the last 10 years where the bulk of out good players should be coming from.
2001: Shane Harvey (# 18) 11 games/2 seasons, 9 goals
2002: Jason Laycock (# 18) 58 games/7 seasons, 35 goals
2002: Jason Winderlich (# 19) 98 games, 7 seasons, 46 goals
2003: Keplar Bradley (# 6) 49 games/3 seasons, 14 goals
2003: Brent Stanton (# 13) 150 games/6 seasons, 93 goals
2004: Angus Monfries (# 14) 120 games/5 seasons, 131 goals
2005: Patrick Ryder (# 7) 105 games/4 seasons, 59 goals
2005: Courtenay Dempsey (#19) 50 games/4 seasons, 13 goals
2006: Scott Gumbleton (# 2) 22 games/4 seasons, 22 goals
2006: Leroy Jetta (Priority Pick # 18) 50 games/4 seasons, 35 goals
2007: David Myers (# 6) 28 games/3 seasons, 6 goals
2008: Michael Hurley - Too early to comment
2009: Jake Melksham - Too early to comment
2010: Dyson Heppell - To early to comment
Shows how badly we really have at picking the 'right' players, the ones who we should be building a core around. Out of all of those, I would consider only Brent Stanton as a success, even then he would only be considered of A - grade standard (within the AFL).
We need to go through the right process' and stop picking 'prospects' and starting picking 'best available'. Look at Friday night, the Hawks won easily against us through precision kicking, Geelong recent era of dominance has been groomed through precision skills, the Bulldogs were there abouts for several yeears with the kicking skills no other team has matched (missed the flag through lack of other ingredients), we have far too many players that are below par kicks.
(None of this I actually think will happen, blast me all you want, but truth is, it is just that) You actually think that guys like Heath Hocking, Sam Lonergan, Nathan Lovett Murray, Brent Stanton even would get a game in a top side, or will aid us in becoming a force? I doubt that when the pressure is on to have pin point kicking they will be able to deliver every time. The haters will come, but each player in the these top sides has a role to play? yes, but when it is there turn they do what is required by foot.
Our lack of development has killed us for far too long, our trading of players in the early 2000's is still playing havoc on us, whilst our recent poor drafting from the early rounds has not exactly produced all the high end class that most first round picks should (used loosely) provide.
With this in mind, I do think that we need to go back and start again, with Merv Keane now in charge of recruting (yes I went there), we have seen the return of the 'best available' with the likes of Heppell over our more dire needs based Shaun Atley, Michael Hurley over the best teenage sensation Daniel Rich whilst we took Jake Melksham as litterally 'best available'. So here's to Merv Keane pulling rank and shoving aside Adrian Dodoro's opinion and recruitment policy.
Rant finished
Thought I covered things pretty well in this regard, you just didnt read the whole thread?
Oh, and Ant555, pointed out that Keane is list manager and not our scape goat Dodoro
ant555
The Oracle
- May 4, 2004
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I'll just refer you back to post number 50, on the 26 June at 1945
Thought I covered things pretty well in this regard, you just didnt read the whole thread?
Oh, and Ant555, pointed out that Keane is list manager and not our scape goat Dodoro
You still did not get it right
I can refer you back to a post in 2007 if you want to see my thoughts on recruiting from 1999 to 2005
It is hardly a new topic ! Everyone who has even a 1/15 of a brain knows we ****ed it up massively. But hey when the club allows the recruiting to be run in a half arsed manner with Sheedy plants learning on the job then that is what you get.
I have never said it was good but there is not just one bloke running the show. Even with the trading as the coach generally has command on who gets trade and who does not.
They could sack Dodoro at the end of the year or even now but now it would not make a difference to what happens at the end of the year. Keane will still evaluate the on field performance of the draft kids and Hird, Thompson and Hamilton will manage the trades.
I do not know why people find it so hard to work out the list manger simply manages. He does not make final decisions in any area, he simply manages the opinions of the coaching department and the recruiting department along with player personal an welfare issues.
If you want someone to punish point the finger at any of the board members still around from that period or Peter Jackson for putting a millions dollar surplus in front of spending on football matters !
ant555
The Oracle
- May 4, 2004
- 35,712
- 55,281
- AFL Club
- Essendon
- Other Teams
- Penrith Panthers
How can we say McPhee and Houli left with no compensation ?
It turned out better did it not as if we had got draft picks for them then we would not have used the PSD to get Hardingham and Hibberd.
As far as trading goes that is the coaches domain which has been a massive flop but those coaches who traded for those who came in or did not trade others when they had value are now gone.
It still gets back to you not understanding the list managers role.
I will give you some one to ask big questions about, Kevin Egan. Been chairman of selectors for a long while and is also a board member who has been around for the whole shambles. Has plenty of pull around the club but why is he still there after our last 11 years and he has been one constant variable !
Very well said Yaco. Agree.
I thought Lucas was Chairman of selectors (this year) ? Or was he just on the panel.
Either way he's out again with his agency.
Funny how the same queries with selections have run through (now) 3 coaches, 3 completely different panels & 2 footy managers etc.
Leaving aside the weekly rants about 'rotating door' or 'no consistency'; I don't think it's rocket surgery to sort out a rough idea of a best 22, and what changes you need to make for side X or venue Y. ie more runners against Freo over there, bigger bodies against Saints @ Etihad. Yet that hasn't ever happened.
That line of thinking is too simplistic- it would make many redundant with nothing to do. Clubs need a huge cast.
That is over-simplified, but still baffled by why Welsh plays at Subi, for eg; or why we would ever have more rucks/talls in for an MCG game rather than an Etihad game.
Not naive enough to think it's as simple as a list = 22 +22 direct replacements, but some guys should be way, way further down the pecking order for some venues/match-ups than they are.
Not naive enough to think it's as simple as a list = 22 +22 direct replacements, but some guys should be way, way further down the pecking order for some venues/match-ups than they are.
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