Player Watch Reilly O'Brien

[Sanders]

I wouldn't play two rucks. Rucks are the least important position on the ground and most premiership teams haven't needed a particularly good one (or two)

This is an interesting view that I think has a lot of merit.

I don't quite agree to the extent that I think a good ruckman is a valuable point of difference, and the best ones are definitely worth having

There not enough genuinely good ones, probably 2 or 3, and if you don't have one you are probably better off conceding the position and not worrying too much about who you put out.

 

[Firewalker]

Eventually try to use him as a packet of chips in part of a deal to get Brodie Grundy back...

No seriously O'Brien's just a 'Baby Giraffe' version of Jacobs, and people already started to get really critical of the style of Jacobs play through the season but Jacobs is of course now in his twilight and is 'dinosauring' out as a ruckman plus it's not to be forgotten just like in previous years when he's had interrupted pre-season's he's had inconsistent season's. Can probably leave final judgement on Sauce after he's had a full pre-season this year.

Also like I said back in the 'Draft needs' thread in October it's pretty useless drafting a young ruck to the club as Matthew Clarke has never and will never be able to develop their skill set past tap-work at stoppages.


More generally on ruckman in the modern game people always say ruckman now need to do a lot more around the ground but it's become more complicated then that, they've become a bit like an All-Rounder in the Australian test team an ideology exists amongst selectors of trying to find someone with good attributes who can do all skill sets well (experience level, size, tapwork, marking, ball skills, mobility, ground work) but in reality hardly any will so they eventually settle for one that they see as more valuable, Beverage wanted a more mobile ruck so discarded Minson in 2015 who was an All-Australian ruck in 2014 for the more mobile Roughead and Melbourne while maybe forced by their club situation went with a more inexperienced but taller more mobile Gawn over the experienced Jamar a few years ago and he blossomed.

Though while looking at modern ruckmen it's enlightening to look at who took the majority of the ruckwork for the past 9 premiers

2016 - Jordan Roughead
2015 - Ben McEvoy
2014 - Ben McEvoy/David Hale
2013 - Max Bailey/David Hale
2012 - Mike Pike/Shane Mumford
2011 - Brad Ottens
2010 - Darren Jolly
2009 - Brad Ottens/Mark Blake
2008 - Robert Campbell/Brent Renouf

Out of these players only 2 were among the dominate ruckman of the competition in their premiership year; Ottens (2009), Jolly (2010). Out of all of them you can probably argue only Mike Pike (2012) and Ben McEvoy/David Hale (2014) won the 'traditional' ruck dual and also the match.

Does all that prove they're non-entities maybe, maybe not but what they're judged on statistically is certainly overrating some and underrating others.

 

[Geoffa32]

I can see a set up where we can use two Rucks quite well.

Jacob's is a fairly decent forward. He takes the ball at a high peak with strong hands. Is also a good accurate kick

He and ROB could share the Ruck work.

However to do this I reckon McGovern's role would have to make way.

Sent from my HTC_0P6B6 using Tapatalk

 

[maxlilly]

I think ROB has a big future with the Crows, is is strong, aggressive and flexible.
I wonder when Pyke was at the Eagles if he liked the idea of playing both Cox & Nicnat.
I wondering if with the added speed we are adding to the team, if that allows us to play 2 ruckman ?
If Jacobs is going to be no. 1, I like the idea of him playing 5-6 games, then ROB coming in for a game and do that throughout the year.
Jacobs gets a rest and ROB gets some experience.

 

[Vader]

I think ROB has a big future with the Crows, is is strong, aggressive and flexible.
I wonder when Pyke was at the Eagles if he liked the idea of playing both Cox & Nicnat.
I wondering if with the added speed we are adding to the team, if that allows us to play 2 ruckman ?
If Jacobs is going to be no. 1, I like the idea of him playing 5-6 games, then ROB coming in for a game and do that throughout the year.
Jacobs gets a rest and ROB gets some experience.

I think there's room for 2 - I don't think there's room for 3. We currently have Jacobs & JJ. I'm not sure they'd ever contemplate adding ROB into the same mix.

 

[WetCrow1991]

I don't know. I'm not sure the first point has any real merit at all, why does it matter who develops the ruckman? Also, I think that Jacobs is underrated in terms of his use around the ground. Doesn't chase much obvious, but he's very handy at being a linkman in play and I think he's very reliable at finding a simple 30m option and executing the kick. Better than most big men, anyway.

Well yeah, it doesn't, it just might be a nice change, a feather in the cap type thing.

As for Jacobs being a link man, that is true, but should he be a linkman? I'm not so sure.

 

[DD#23]

I reckon everyone needs to forget about Jacobs and ROB playing together.

my aim would be to have ROB with Dear or Himmelberg in support in about 2-3 years time, Jacobs will be well and truly done and Jenkins most likely close to finished too.

as for this year, you play ROB as soon as Jacobs has two bad ones in a row, we're going to have to be switched on in there and it can't all fall to the on-ballers.

 

[Mismatched]

I think there's room for 2 - I don't think there's room for 3. We currently have Jacobs & JJ. I'm not sure they'd ever contemplate adding ROB into the same mix.

Agreed, there's no way we add a 2nd ruck to a forward line containing Walker, Jenkins and Lynch, anyone suggesting we should clearly has limited understanding of how a modern day forward line works.

There are clubs that do use 2 ruckman, but generally these are the clubs who are lacking a genuine, half decent 2nd or 3rd tall forward.

2nd rucks at most will get 35-40% time in the ruck, often less, gone are the days where they would spend the rest of the game on the bench. That's simply a waste of a rotation/bench spot, instead they are required to spend significant time up forward, often 50-60% game time, a position very few ruckman are particularly efficient at and the ones that are, tend to be called key forwards and spend little time in the ruck.

So essentially the 2nd ruck role requires the player to spend more time in the forward line that the ruck. So why the fk would you go for a player who is a poor forward, but good ruck, instead of a player who is a good forward, but poor ruck, in a position that demands mostly forward line play. This is compounded when you consider most ruckman flourish under and prefer 75%+ gametime in the ruck, Leaving the 2nd ruck only 20-25% game time.

The only reason to play a ruckman as second ruck is because you don't have a forward who presents a better option. We have that in Jenkins, plus possibly Dear.

If we're worried about Jacobs workload, we need to be resting him for the odd game, simple.

This is without going into how poorly winning the hitouts correlates to actual premiership success. Go ahead and look at the premiership ruckman over the past 5-10 years, hardly the "who's who" of ruckman.

 

[tinman]

ROB has perfect scenario at crows ... He's the clear 2nd ruck with a slowly declining sauce in front of him

No need to think about leaving in this scenario , he's 21 next season ?

He just needs to keep working on his game so he's ready to go and to try reach sauce level as soon as he possibly can then surpass it

On the money. He's a clear no.2 at the moment at Adelaide, why would he move anywhere unless it's to be no.1?

 

[Scorpus]

I can see a set up where we can use two Rucks quite well.

Jacob's is a fairly decent forward. He takes the ball at a high peak with strong hands. Is also a good accurate kick

He and ROB could share the Ruck work.

However to do this I reckon McGovern's role would have to make way.

Sent from my HTC_0P6B6 using Tapatalk

Since when is Jacobs a decent forward? He hasn't reached double-digit goal figures in any season yet and he has only kicked more than 1 goal in a match 4 times in 149 games

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Last year proved that one ruckman can't last the season playing every available game. Jenkins only gives a handful of minutes a game. It's basically Jacobs solo.

We can't be stupid enough to do this again.

Also rushing Jacobs back after his ankle injury was even dumber than not strategically resting him at stages.

Couldn't have possibly managed our ruck situation worse than we did last season - ran Sauce into the ground and had him flat at the most crucial time of the year, and invested next to no experience into ROB.

Complete disaster and can't happen again.

Not resting & playing injured/unfit players was the biggest issue I had with selection last year.

Pyke & co must have more faith in our depth like the Bullies do to keep players fresh, even when they have more injuries. It also may mean we discover a young gem or 2.

Given sauce does the majority of rucking, he should be rested for around 4 games & we may have an opportunity to play 2 ruckmen if the opposition has 2 & we use O'Brien as a defender/ruckman.

 

[weneverland]

I'm not a big fan of Jacobs. A one trick pony. If he doesn't win the taps he virtually makes no contribution to the team. Virtually no tackles, no goals and for a guy of his size a terrible contested mark. I don't know if ROB will make it as a ruckman but in the couple of games this year I thought he showed a presence around the ground that Sauce doesn't. I would hope to see ROB gradually supplant Jacobs next season as I think he has more to offer.

 

[Vhaluus]

Since when is Jacobs a decent forward? He hasn't reached double-digit goal figures in any season yet and he has only kicked more than 1 goal in a match 4 times in 149 games

Agreed, I would say he's one of the worst ruckmen when it comes to kicking goals.

He's also a huge liability when his direct opponent gets to a marking position within 50.

 

[Vhaluus]

I reckon everyone needs to forget about Jacobs and ROB playing together.

my aim would be to have ROB with Dear or Himmelberg in support in about 2-3 years time, Jacobs will be well and truly done and Jenkins most likely close to finished too.

as for this year, you play ROB as soon as Jacobs has two bad ones in a row, we're going to have to be switched on in there and it can't all fall to the on-ballers.

If Jenkins is nearly done in 2-3 years we're ****ed given how long we signed him for.

 

[DD#23]

If Jenkins is nearly done in 2-3 years we're stuffed given how long we signed him for.

if the last two years of that contract aren't <300K a piece yes we are stuffed.

EDIT: should also point out that its not so much a matter of Jenkins being "done" as long enough for Dear or Himmelberg to go past him. If they're not in the frame for regular game time they'll be on the plane for sure.

 

[Wouldbetackler]

When does sauces contract run out?

 

[DD#23]

I'm not a big fan of Jacobs. A one trick pony. If he doesn't win the taps he virtually makes no contribution to the team. Virtually no tackles, no goals and for a guy of his size a terrible contested mark. I don't know if ROB will make it as a ruckman but in the couple of games this year I thought he showed a presence around the ground that Sauce doesn't. I would hope to see ROB gradually supplant Jacobs next season as I think he has more to offer.

when Jacobs is absolutely purring he's shown good link-up ability, nice hands and great kick in space for a big man.

problem is if he's not running at 95% comfort he doesn't cover any more ground than he has to to make a ruck contest.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

If Jenkins is nearly done in 2-3 years we're stuffed given how long we signed him for.

Back to troll our board with negative crap like usual.

It's so blatant that hardly anyone takes your posts seriously.

 

[Doctor B]

Sauce finished off the last two seasons poorly, mostly due to rucking the whole season with hardly any help. We need to be smarter this year with more rest games and bringing in ROB, or JJ dramatically improving, but all of this Sauce is finished talk is wrong.
Unfortunately for ROB getting games will be hard because of our stacked forward line and the fact that both Sauce and ROB are rucks that don't really play in other positions. Playing Sauce, JJ and ROB in the same team would be very unlikely.

 

[Vhaluus]

Back to troll our board with negative crap like usual.

It's so blatant that hardly anyone takes your posts seriously.

Can't refute my point so you call me a troll? Same old crap from the same old people.

 

[Mismatched]

View attachment 315976 Sauce finished off the last two seasons poorly, mostly due to rucking the whole season with hardly any help. We need to be smarter this year with more rest games and bringing in ROB, or JJ dramatically improving, but all of this Sauce is finished talk is wrong.
Unfortunately for ROB getting games will be hard because of our stacked forward line and the fact that both Sauce and ROB are rucks that don't really play in other positions. Playing Sauce, JJ and ROB in the same team would be very unlikely.

Ruckman thrive off big minutes, playing Jacobs and O'Brien together is not the option, resting Jacobs for a game or two here and there, especially if he has a niggle is the answer.

 

[dylan123]

Agree with James_37 that it's not possible to play both ruckman together when our forwardline is set up the way it is. Ideally, Jenkins would be capable of rucking and we wouldn't have this issue but he isn't. There just isn't a way to bring him in whilst also running with Tex/Jenkins/Lynch/McGovern.

I haven't seen as much of O'Brien as others but from the little I have seen he does look a little bit like a Jacobs clone. Given his disposal isn't as good/less likely to get involved in the play as Jacobs, he has to make up for it in other areas and one of Jacobs huge downfalls is his ability to create a contest in a pack (still salty over all those easy marks Goldstein was taking in round 1). If he can do that then he goes a long way in making up for it and giving us a strong alternative option.

Prior to last year Jacobs was a strong ruck who won plenty of hit outs and was involved plenty around the ground so his standard can be pretty high, it's just hard to know why he went down this year and whether he can bounce back (he went down another couple of levels post the ankle injury). At his age he really should have a few more decent seasons left in him but it's hard to be completely confident with how he finished off 2016.

 

[DD#23]

View attachment 315976 Sauce finished off the last two seasons poorly, mostly due to rucking the whole season with hardly any help. We need to be smarter this year with more rest games and bringing in ROB, or JJ dramatically improving, but all of this Sauce is finished talk is wrong.
Unfortunately for ROB getting games will be hard because of our stacked forward line and the fact that both Sauce and ROB are rucks that don't really play in other positions. Playing Sauce, JJ and ROB in the same team would be very unlikely.

nah, I reckon this season he was just flat out injured. Hadn't recovered from his ankle (I think it was ankle, it was something.) that got ROB the two games in the first place.

should have kept him out aiming to have him cherry ripe for the showdown or Round 23 and then for finals, but instead we ran him into the ground while he limped around like a lame horse.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Can't refute my point so you call me a troll? Same old crap from the same old people.

You are trolling off topic on an O'Brien thread about JJ.

What if Sloane loses form, what if Talia loses form... You are just making meaningless off topic crystal ball trolling to seek attention.

Why would I refute a prediction about the future? It's not like you can claim it will be true!

 

[Doctor B]

nah, I reckon this season he was just flat out injured. Hadn't recovered from his ankle (I think it was ankle, it was something.) that got ROB the two games in the first place.

should have kept him out aiming to have him cherry ripe for the showdown or Round 23 and then for finals, but instead we ran him into the ground while he limped around like a lame horse.

Agreed we rushed him back and ran him into the ground.
To finish 4th in total hit outs and 6th in average hit out for the year, he had a better season than some are remembering.