Richmond are now equal bottom

[Falchoon]

We should allow ourselves to finish in the position our performances deserve. Hardwick's safe, he shouldn't need to shore up his position with hard-fought but ultimately useless wins.

Sounds like a long winded euphemism for 'we should tank'.

Some hard fought 'useless wins' actually may be good practice for when they wouldn't be 'useless wins'. ie when playing ninth in a final, or needing to win so as to finish in the finals, rather than ninth.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Sounds like a long winded euphemism for 'we should tank'.

Some hard fought 'useless wins' actually may be good practice for when they wouldn't be 'useless wins'. ie when playing ninth in a final, or needing to win so as to finish in the finals, rather than ninth.

Been down that road, e.g. 2008. I've blotted out what happened the year after.

No we shouldn't put Hampson in the back pocket on McGlynn. We should give some younger players a chance and see whether they've got what it takes. Fielding our "best" side (e.g. Newman > Helbig, A.Edwards > Elton) is pretty pointless in the position we're in. Doesn't mean you don't give 100%.

 

[Ron The Bear]

What is worrying is how Richmond keep repeating the same mistake over and over......They keep promising a "proper rebuild" but end up topping up with a bunch of recycled players who end up being a liability.

They're in the same position as they were at the arse-end of the Frawley and Wallace eras......

"Worse than Fitzroy" was only four years ago when we were fielding teams of GWS age. You can't claim that wasn't a thorough rebuild.

End of the Frawley era and to a lesser extent (due to retirements), the Wallace era, we had old teams. The current side is not old, in fact younger than the Melbourne team that beat us a month ago. No excuse for getting beaten when we should be ahead in development, but the list's not a train wreck. Yet.

If Richmond is to contend, it'll be when Deledio/Riewoldt/Cotchin are veterans and backed by a quality group of 23-27yo's. We've got to keep pushing towards that.

 

[Freomaniac]

Hey, don't forget to include Carlton finishing 5th in 2011 and missing finals in 2012 . It seems to be the curse of finishing 5th.

Carlton finish 5th in 2011 and are premiership favourites by round 2 of 2012. They miss finals.
West Coast finish 5th in 2012 and are premiership favourites in 2013. They miss finals.
Richmond finish 5th in 2013 and are tipped to improve in 2014. They (are probably going to) miss finals.

You can add my team back in 2003 as well...

Freo finished 5th in 2003, lost to essendon in a home final and finished 9th in 2004.

Kangaroos finished 5th in 2005 then lost to Port in the Elimination final, then tumbled to 14th in 2006 then got top 4 in 2007.

 

[bkozican]

Still mentally hurt over the carlton win last year.....What else could it be

*Actually seroious question*

 

[Freomaniac]

I think the Tigers suffered the same fate as Freo did in 2003... Won a lot of close games, got 5th and a home final, then beaten by an 8th placed side with finals experience. Then there was a sudden drop off and fail to make the 8.

Whats more disturbing about the Dockers 2003 squad and Richmonds team this year is they have a lot in common...

-Gun Key forward... (Freo had Pav in his prime, Tigers have riewoldt)
-An ok midfield. (Freo had Bell, Headland, Hasleby etc Tigers had Martin, Cotchin, Delideo and Conca)
-A horrible backline due to either inexperience or being ordinary.
-A fair bit of players taken from other clubs.
-A competitive starting 22 but when 2-3 injuries happen, there is little to no talent outside that 22.

 

[SdKfz 181]

I remember the 360 episode the day after the elimination final last year - Gerard said 'this loss could either be the makings of richmond or something that will send them back'. At the time you'd be right to have said it would spur them on and be a valuable experience for the future.

Looks like we kinda broke them.

Well that's a simpletons way at looking at things..

 

[SdKfz 181]

Sounds like a long winded euphemism for 'we should tank'.

Some hard fought 'useless wins' actually may be good practice for when they wouldn't be 'useless wins'. ie when playing ninth in a final, or needing to win so as to finish in the finals, rather than ninth.

I'd take that from a supporter of a successful club, but a St Kilda supporter, just meh..

 

[RePete]

Adelaide and WC finished top five in 2012 and they missed out on the finals in 2013.

Both were ravaged by injuries and senior players are now past their best. Not to mention the off field issues that only Essendon fans can say they have had worse. What is Richmonds excuse?

 

[Falchoon]

I'd take that from a supporter of a successful club, but a St Kilda supporter, just meh..

I'd take that from a supporter of a successful club, but a Richmond supporter, just meh..

 

[BM123]

Both were ravaged by injuries and senior players are now past their best. Not to mention the off field issues that only Essendon fans can say they have had worse. What is Richmonds excuse?

Carlton had similiar issues and we were bashed around from pillar to post by the AFL community.

I'd say Richmond's excuse comes from the likes of Conca and Ellis not improving as expected while their depth was tested when Maric and Delidio were injured.

 

[Falchoon]

"Worse than Fitzroy" was only four years ago when we were fielding teams of GWS age. You can't claim that wasn't a thorough rebuild.

End of the Frawley era and to a lesser extent (due to retirements), the Wallace era, we had old teams. The current side is not old, in fact younger than the Melbourne team that beat us a month ago. No excuse for getting beaten when we should be ahead in development, but the list's not a train wreck. Yet.

If Richmond is to contend, it'll be when Deledio/Riewoldt/Cotchin are veterans and backed by a quality group of 23-27yo's. We've got to keep pushing towards that.

Deledio's an interesting one, with 200 + games in 10 seasons under his belt he has to be considered something of a veteran, with Joel Selwood's finals record he'd be over 220 games.

He looks like the sort of player who can pull games apart, but with 55 brownlow votes in 10 years, he's starting to edge into Jarrad Waite territory.

 

[Ron The Bear]

He looks like the sort of player who can pull games apart, but with 55 brownlow votes in 10 years, he's starting to edge into Jarrad Waite territory.

Polled poorly early on, he's never really had his name up in lights. Not sure Waite's a good comparison though.

 

[Parquet Court]

i did fear a situation like this in the pre season, maybe not as bad as this but a win/loss slightly in the negatives

when something like this happens, you need to look for reasons and there are some obvious/ easy ones to use that arent necessarily true or warranted
- mature rejects
- limited pre seasons for maric, conca, riewoldt (lesser extent), chaplin
- injuries to key guys early in the year, maric, rance, deledio
- perenial whipping boys grigg, houli, s. edwards, vickery, petterd
- new whipping boy on the block, hampson

then there are the ones that are less obvious to identify
- team disharmony
- hardwick
- over estimated the list capabilities
- game plan changes not appreciated by the players

you can never know for sure but there seems to be a disharmony amongst the player group and not enough 'tough love' from the coaching or leadership group.

the game plan and positional changes used early in the season and were exposed by opposition coaches and shattered player confidence which has resulted in the stop/ start football that was seen early in the year.

how is this fixed ?
imo the buck stops with hardwick and cotchin. one of them needs to be changed. personally i dont think cotchin should have been given the captaincy, i think deledio or riewoldt would have thrived on the captaincy and given the boys more off field and on field direction.

 

[mcuzzy]

but with 55 brownlow votes in 10 years

I reckon that would almost be doubled if he didn't play for such a joke of a team

 

[wormy]

why do north supported hate Richmond. Seriously why? I would like to know.

 

[Syd]

why do north supported hate Richmond. Seriously why? I would like to know.

To fit in?

 

[Confuscius]

I'd take that from a supporter of a successful club, but a St Kilda supporter, just meh..

Well we went down that road in 2003. Won four out of the last five and missed out on finals by a game or so after struggling all year.

Since then we've played in 19 times the amount of finals as the Tiges have in the same period... Just saying

 

[TigerTime88]

Well we went down that road in 2003. Won four out of the last five and missed out on finals by a game or so after struggling all year.

Since then we've played in 19 times the amount of finals as the Tiges have in the same period... Just saying

I would happily see us win games for the rest of the year and move up the draft order as a consequence, but with players that are going to be there in the future. No point doing it with the likes of Aaron Edwards, Grigg ect. Would much prefer to see some of our 2nd round picks come in and play and see what they can do. If we win with them great...if we lose we know we need better talent at the draft.

Some teams finish middle tier continuously and keep getting middle tier players.

Port are a great example of a team who bottomed out then came back with talent. Even Collingwood of 2005 draft class.

 

[HBF]

Still mentally hurt over the carlton win last year.....What else could it be

*Actually seroious question*

Or they could draw inspiration from that loss by adopting the attitude of "...never again"

 

[bkozican]

Or they could draw inspiration from that loss by adopting the attitude of "...never again"

Thats a good question you raise....A lack of leadership maybe ?

 

[SdKfz 181]

Well we went down that road in 2003. Won four out of the last five and missed out on finals by a game or so after struggling all year.

Since then we've played in 19 times the amount of finals as the Tiges have in the same period... Just saying

how many Premierships since then exactly? thats all I care about..

 

[Hill2Pav]

why do north supported hate Richmond. Seriously why? I would like to know.

Probably back to the 70's when the Richmond table at the Brownlow night boed the winner Keith Greig of North Melbourne as they thought Kevin Bartlett should have won it instead.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Probably back to the 70's when the Richmond table at the Brownlow night boed the winner Keith Greig of North Melbourne as they thought Kevin Bartlett should have won it instead.

I've never seen the details spelt out, but there was some sort of physical altercation between Richmond and North officials in the foyer afterwards . Certainly the newspapers of the time never reported it.

Imagine that today as a precursor to the two clubs competing in the GF. It'd be a sensation.

 

[Boston tiger]

why do north supported hate Richmond. Seriously why? I would like to know.

Because they have been doing everything right for the last 30 years while we continually get it wrong yet they still feel like they are a year to year proposition. And we lurch onwards as one of the big four.
That can't last forever though.