Unofficial Preview Richmond v Melbourne Casey Fields Saturday 4th March 4.10pm

[Tiger_4_Life]

Worrying thing is that’s what we look like the last few times playing Melbourne. They have it over us at the moment.

They always have really.... Sans 2017 miraculous comeback

 

[Muddiemoose]

The FWD line wont work IMO

A players peak age is considered 27

Lifecycle of an AFL player’s career

Stages of an AFL player’s career and a first model for assessing player effectiveness across multiple seasons

towardsdatascience.com

Riewoldt - 34
Cotchin - (almost) 33
Dusty - 31
Lynch - 30
Bolton - 24
MRJ - 20
Cumberland - 21


Only Bolton is close to being at his peak, and even still he might be too soon. For the rest, we are either too old or too young. Very hard to see how this FWD line will mesh.

I understand in essence but think it’s a very simple way to unpack it all and base if the forward line will work or not

Just looking at Geelongs forward line last year they had zero players in that godly locks 27 year old zone, sure it’s a good guide to look at an individual players peak period but doesn’t necessarily have any bearing on how well a team operates

 

[Drunken Wookie]

Short not being line breaking off half back is news to me. Dan the more accurate short kick I agree there

Short's delivery inside 50 last year playing midfield wasn't all I hoped it would be. Need him lacing out targets on the lead as opposed to just bombing it. The problem is he's not good with limited time and space like most traditional mids are, which is why he excels more down back where he has it

Nah he kicks over lines, I reckon. You rarely see him burst through two guys and hit up a player at full tilt like Rioli does on the reg. But Short gets a heap of the ball and puts it long to dangerous positions. They've both got their qualities.

 

[Dreamend]

Port Adelaide won an entire pre season comp one year and then won the wooden spoon in that same season.

Ryan, Dow, Taranto, Hopper all nice highlights. Lots of players underdone or having first proper hit outs.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Just looking at Geelongs forward line last year they had zero players in that godly locks 27 year old zone,

Oliver Dempsey has godly locks (photo isn't backlit, he swears!), just a little young yet to fit the other, less important criterion.

 

[Drunken Wookie]

And evening up the comp by hobbling the best side and game plan that brought record crowds in the last few years...with weird rule changes...what other comp does that!?

They don't want us getting too big, having too much influence, that's the reason they're not fans. We don't bend the knee like the other clubs and they hate us for it.

 

[archer the tiger]

reckon some of our players should come out as transvestites

only way afl will then umpire us fairly

Umps will have stiffys for sure but be more confused than ever.

 

[RJK Tiger]

I understand in essence but think it’s a very simple way to unpack it all and base if the forward line will work or not

Just looking at Geelongs forward line last year they had zero players in that godly locks 27 year old zone, sure it’s a good guide to look at an individual players peak period but doesn’t necessarily have any bearing on how well a team operates

Yes, definitely true too & was going to say that - sure there are teams out there, like Geelong last year, that if i had a closer look over age's etc it would prove to be not a perfect rule.

The year will be whatever it is, but for me we are asking players to perform outside of their expectation a bit too much to imagine winning it all.

Remember only 1 team can win it - for that team, everything has to almost go perfect. I just don't see this richmond team having a "perfect" run. The team was a bit of a headcase last year. Hot & cold. Playing on then over the edge. etc

 

[kozi]

Nah he kicks over lines, I reckon. You rarely see him burst through two guys and hit up a player at full tilt like Rioli does on the reg. But Short gets a heap of the ball and puts it long to dangerous positions. They've both got their qualities.

Short provides plenty of line breaking run and carry through the D50. He's not just some one trick superboot

Dunno why we're pulling out stuff like this to down his game as a rebounding defender. It's like we've forgot the guy won our B&F in a premiership year in that role. Think it's pretty simplistic to put he and Dan on the exact same level just by saying they have different games

 

[RJK Tiger]

I understand in essence but think it’s a very simple way to unpack it all and base if the forward line will work or not

Just looking at Geelongs forward line last year they had zero players in that godly locks 27 year old zone, sure it’s a good guide to look at an individual players peak period but doesn’t necessarily have any bearing on how well a team operates

Except for Jeremy Cameron & that is a pretty big part of their forward line.

Also, Hawkins proved he is a freak of aging. I am not sold Jack can do that. He looks and moves like he is old. Hawkins season last year was one for the ages of proving father time wrong. Love him or hate him, he was incredible & he defied all rules to do it. credit to him.

I agree the rule is not perfect - but i fail to see how Cotchin, Riewoldt, Dusty, Lynch can provide the chasing speed to not let the ball flow out quicker than a tourist butthole in india

They 4 players i mentioned above ( Vloss, Short, Baker, Rioli ) all can't live in the back half. I said it a lot last year, i'd move Dan forward. As good as he is running the ball out down back, as others mentioned - it came at the cost of Short. Short & Baker are not as explosive, but they are known successful GF backmen. I think Baker is a better back than fwd. Vloss is definitely a back.

Short & Baker in the middle is no longer as required as before due to Taranto & Hopper, & hopefully Graham can step up. He is the guy that is costing us dearly as he is in that "Peak" age, but his performance doesn't reflect it

At worst trial it. If it doesn;t work - then move Dan back snd try it with Baker. Something has to give tho as that forward line just seems way too old

Put Cotchin in the middle, Dan down forward, Baker & Short down back. Then we have a better balance of speed overall. With the new sub rules we can play Cotchin in the middle or even use him as a potent sub

B: Baker Tarrant Broad
HB: Short Balta Vloss
C: Pickett Prestia KMac
HF: D.Rioli Martin Bolton
F: MRJ Lynch Riewold
Foll: Nank Hopper Taranto

Bench: Graham. Grimes. Cumberland. Cotchin

EMERG: Sonsie. Ross. Soldo, R/S. Dow. Gibcus. Miller. Ryan

Rotate Cumberland & Jack based on match ups where speed or marking is more required.

This line up also would allow Bolton D.Rioli, Short & Vloss/Baker to possibly to run through the wings to provide some support, which quite honestly, we need. As those wings are not elite.

 

[Grrr]

Could just be a mindset shift we need with our smalls, get Cumbo to stop flying for marks every time and try and focus on the groundwork and defence efforts

Plenty of good medium forwards fly for marks, Greene, Elliot, etc. It gets you into the game, fly for the ball and follow up at round level, that is Cumberland's best weapon. The whole defensive pressure forward mo, has killed every small forward we've produced. MRJ is a natural at it, but Cumberland has x-factor in spades, so let him go.

 

[Grrr]

Short provides plenty of line breaking run and carry through the D50. He's not just some one trick superboot

Dunno why we're pulling out stuff like this to down his game as a rebounding defender. It's like we've forgot the guy won our B&F in a premiership year in that role. Think it's pretty simplistic to put he and Dan on the exact same level just by saying they have different games

Dan is so much more creative, Short great at gaining metres but generally pumps it long. Dan didn't win the B & F last season only because Lynch pulled his best ever season out, so they are pretty much even in that respect. I think Short could play wing pretty well, but then so would Rioli. Not such a bad problem to have.

 

[fargothegreat]

Dan is so much more creative, Short great at gaining metres but generally pumps it long. Dan didn't win the B & F last season only because Lynch pulled his best ever season out, so they are pretty much even in that respect. I think Short could play wing pretty well, but then so would Rioli. Not such a bad problem to have.

Short would work as a wingman for most teams, but probably not the way we play.

Our wings often act as two extra defenders providing aerial support. They're defensive players with decent capability overhead, which Short doesn't have.

That's why we were trying a player like Broad on the wing late in the game on the weekend. He has the right attributes for the role*

*I'm not advocating we move Broad as he's been shit any time he's played wing before. I'm just using him to highlight the type of player we like to play on the wing.

 

[fargothegreat]

On Rioli v Short in the backline, one thing Rioli can do that Short can't is lock down on a dangerous small forward and beat them. Short is all out attack.

 

[Burning bright]

Clearly the win was not on Hardwicks agenda as he played Young in a key back roll against this years hardest transitional match up of the Grundy Gawn Forward/Ruck game plan. The kid has not played an AFL game and resulted in at least half a dozen shots on goals but Dimma left him in the role.

Melbourne has exposed probably their near best game style and rotations to us we have delivered them virtually nothing but the appending headache of Samson Ryan.

When we extracted the digit in the third quarter we gobbled up half their lead and when we introduced the run and marking power of Samson in the fourth they were at 6's and 7's. If he kicked straight then we are only a few goals behind in a game the shemans dominated.

What I did notice was the physical knocks on Melbourne's lighter running brigade they quickly wanted to get out of that mode of play reminiscent to last year first half when we cranked it up on the physical that time the umpires came screaming in with their defensive whistles.

Miller Tarrant will provide a significant more physical pressure on tall forwards.

The other bug bear is that Gawn is a very static and vertical forward if he can stand then step into the mark with his reach he is dominant, Noah Balta

21

Noah Balta

Age

24

Ht

194cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.8

2star

K

6.7

3star

HB

3.1

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.9

4star

MG

236.3

4star

D

12.0

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

5.3

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

0.3

1star

MG

233.0

4star

D

7.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.0

2star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.8

4star

MG

217.4

4star

putting his knee into the small of his back took Gawn out for a good part of the quarter this is the achilles heal of tall marking rucks that love to stand and dominate the fall of the ball.


I hope we took note.


.

 

[Grrr]

Short would work as a wingman for most teams, but probably not the way we play.

Our wings often act as two extra defenders providing aerial support. They're defensive players with decent capability overhead, which Short doesn't have.

That's why we were trying a player like Broad on the wing late in the game on the weekend. He has the right attributes for the role*

*I'm not advocating we move Broad as he's been s**t any time he's played wing before. I'm just using him to highlight the type of player we like to play on the wing.

If we don't have enough aerial support with Balta, Tarrant, Grimes, Broad and Vlastuin down back we never will. MacIntosh rarely marks the ball although he is big enough to stand in the hole, and Pickett is more attacking.

Short also knows the back format very well, so he would know what to do defensively. He offence might outweigh his lack of defence. Attacking wingman are very handy.

I think Ralph-Smith might be a bet each way. He was supposed to be a standout in the VFL. Did Pickett play in the VFL game, he might not get up so there may be a spot opening up.

 

[Morro]

On Rioli v Short in the backline, one thing Rioli can do that Short can't is lock down on a dangerous small forward and beat them. Short is all out attack.

This.

We can argue who is the better rebounder, both have elite traits, but Dan is a very very good defender, whilst Shorty is ok.

Its a no brainer IMO.

 

[Muddiemoose]

Clearly the win was not on Hardwicks agenda as he played Young in a key back roll against this years hardest transitional match up of the Grundy Gawn Forward/Ruck game plan. The kid has not played an AFL game and resulted in at least half a dozen shots on goals but Dimma left him in the role.

Melbourne has exposed probably their near best game style and rotations to us we have delivered them virtually nothing but the appending headache of Samson Ryan.

When we extracted the digit in the third quarter we gobbled up half their lead and when we introduced the run and marking power of Samson in the fourth they were at 6's and 7's. If he kicked straight then we are only a few goals behind in a game the shemans dominated.

What I did notice was the physical knocks on Melbourne's lighter running brigade they quickly wanted to get out of that mode of play reminiscent to last year first half when we cranked it up on the physical that time the umpires came screaming in with their defensive whistles.

Miller Tarrant will provide a significant more physical pressure on tall forwards.

The other bug bear is that Gawn is a very static and vertical forward if he can stand then step into the mark with his reach he is dominant, Noah Balta putting his knee into the small of his back took Gawn out for a good part of the quarter this is the achilles heal of tall marking rucks that love to stand and dominate the fall of the ball.


I hope we took note.


.

Wasn’t young on Brown for 90% of the game?
Thought he held up really well

 

[Triggering Tiger]

Wasn’t young on Brown for 90% of the game?
Thought he held up really well

BB is not the player he once was especially after he shaved the fro.

 

[Muddiemoose]

BB is not the player he once was especially after he shaved the fro.

No doubt he’s not the star he once was but just more commenting on Young
He still held his own against a mature body with a large amount of afl experience

Don’t think he plays unless we have an injury crisis but think he has the tools to make it long term

 

[RJK Tiger]

This.

We can argue who is the better rebounder, both have elite traits, but Dan is a very very good defender, whilst Shorty is ok.

Its a no brainer IMO.

Is it though?

Short has been part of far more effective defensive set-up's while Rioli's move to the backline has coincided with our defence dropping off a cliff. Eye test certainly suggest what your saying is true, but the team defence appears to be far worse.

The other part of this is maybe not one can play Position A) the best - but which one can play their secondary position the best and does that position notify a clear flaw in our system.

I don't think Short as a FWD provides anything - he is best down fwd when he is running up from HB and feeding off for a long bomb set up etc. Short possibly could become a wing which would be useful, but still not sure he can be elite. Short did great in the middle, but with Graham, Taranto, Hopper, Prestia, Cotchin around he is likely only needed to rotate along with Dusty Bolton, Baker, Sonsie etc

With Georgie & Aarts gone - we crazily now lack speed in our fwd line. Dan Rioli does fit that bill, has been proven in that role. I know i spruicked this all last year to groans - but it makes more sense this year than even last. I have A LOT of faith in Dan. I am not willing to think of him as an average fwd due to his previous form -as for several years before that, he was excellent there. I also think that fwd line structure was tired and redundant. I also think his trials and tribulations and his dedication to the move down back has made him mature tenfold. Where once he was allowed to be the wide eyed young buck in the fwd line, now he would be the leader of that group of MRJ, Cumberland & Bolton.

When Rioli;'s fwd performance dropped, he was partnering with the likes of Georgie, Aarts, Parker, Caddy. All these guys are now gone. ITs a completely new structure & group.

A fwd line set up of D.Rioli, Bolton, MRJ, Dusty, Cumberland - playing around twin towers Jack & Tom seems like a clearly more balanced attacked of marking, speed and pressure

 

[Morro]

Is it though?

Short has been part of far more effective defensive set-up's while Rioli's move to the backline has coincided with our defence dropping off a cliff. Eye test certainly suggest what your saying is true, but the team defence appears to be far worse.

The other part of this is maybe not one can play Position A) the best - but which one can play their secondary position the best and does that position notify a clear flaw in our system.

I don't think Short as a FWD provides anything. Short possibly could become a wing which would be useful, but still not sure he can be elite. Short did great in the middle, but with Graham, Taranto, Hopper, Prestia, Cotchin around he is likely only needed to rotate along with Dusty Bolton, Baker, Sonsie etc

With Georgie & Aarts gone - we crazily now lack speed in our fwd line. Dan Rioli does fit that bill, has been proven in that role. I know i spruicked this all last year to groans - but it makes more sense this year than even last. I have A LOT of faith in Dan. I am not willing to think of him as an average fwd due to his previous form -as for several years before that, he was excellent there. I also think that fwd line structure was tired and redundant. I also think his trials and tribulations and his dedication to the move down back has made him mature tenfold. Where once he was allowed to be the wide eyed young buck in the fwd line, now he would be the leader of that group of MRJ, Cumberland & Bolton.

When Rioli;'s fwd performance dropped, he was partnering with the likes of Georgie, Aarts, Parker, Caddy. All these guys are now gone. ITs a completely new structure & group.

A fwd line set up of D.Rioli, Bolton, MRJ, Dusty, Cumberland - playing around twin towers Jack & Tom seems like a clearly more balanced attacked of marking, speed and pressure

Being a part of a better defense isnt on Rioli though, you can only judge on their own form.

Second point, yeah you are probably right, Rioli would be a better forward, but can he play wing or on ball as thats what they have short doing, albeit not to a great level currently.

 

[tiger_tough]

Wasn’t young on Brown for 90% of the game?
Thought he held up really well

Moved off the resting ruck and onto bb after half time from what I could tell. Did a good job on bb even though he was looked after by the umps massively.

Thats why I'm not too concerned with gawn and grundys dominance up forward in the first half. Tylar young wouldn't get that job if it were the real stuff.

 

[tiger_tough]

Did Miller play in the reserves?

 

[RJK Tiger]

Being a part of a better defense isnt on Rioli though, you can only judge on their own form.

Second point, yeah you are probably right, Rioli would be a better forward, but can he play wing or on ball as thats what they have short doing, albeit not to a great level currently.

Yep. effectively i think what you would see though is Dan live down fwd, and still able to rotate down back, while Short perhaps rotates through middle or wing.

Our your core of pressure forwards need a leader and Dan is the guy IMO. As that age chart showed above, we have too much of that "peak time" guys all playing next to each other - and more strangely, the results are not even good