Preview Rnd 8 - Carlton v North Saturday 25th July 1.05PM @ the Gabba
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thylacine60
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interesting post off the norf board:
Has anyone seen how Carlton play, as well as how they've been playing lately?
Make no mistake their type of game style is built to destroy teams like ours; slow, territorial, long bombs and prone to mistakes.
Carlton will punish the sh*t out of us when we do make mistakes and run us off our legs. The only way North wins is if it matches that level of attack and gets it inside 50 and keeps it there, as Carlton has a weak defence.
Guess what North CAN'T do right now, get it inside 50 even more than twice a game.
Carlton just did it 4 times in 10 minutes for 4 goals in one quarter in their game right now.
North lose by 40.
Has anyone seen how Carlton play, as well as how they've been playing lately?
Make no mistake their type of game style is built to destroy teams like ours; slow, territorial, long bombs and prone to mistakes.
Carlton will punish the sh*t out of us when we do make mistakes and run us off our legs. The only way North wins is if it matches that level of attack and gets it inside 50 and keeps it there, as Carlton has a weak defence.
Guess what North CAN'T do right now, get it inside 50 even more than twice a game.
Carlton just did it 4 times in 10 minutes for 4 goals in one quarter in their game right now.
North lose by 40.
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- Aug 16, 2015
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I really hope our performance today and our loss, built confidence, rather than drained it. We played really well and yet there is still so much to improve on. We have had some shocking starts and quarters this year but seem to be playing good footy now. A strong response next game, will keep us within striking distance of finals.
The poster was correct though, our defence is poor, before anyone jumps on this, have a look, we are 3rd worse for points against.
The poster was correct though, our defence is poor, before anyone jumps on this, have a look, we are 3rd worse for points against.
- Nov 27, 2016
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We need to make a couple of changes for this one ..the lads put in a cracker performance ..very impressive ..very unlucky to lose that one ..but that game we played it hard ..we need some fresh legs coming in ..ziebell is huge loss for them and they would be quite dispirited after struggling to win games .. they do match up well against us so we need to be ready and and expect a tough contest ...special kudos to Walsh ..he was brilliant today ..
Jimmae
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I'll go a bit further and note some issues, with some timestamps for key moments in the first quarter.
Initial thoughts - had an opponent run off him at multiple centre bounce setups (centre of the top of the 50), and in related open play; mostly Byrne-Jones, but sometimes Burton as Byrne-Jones would join the congestion as an extra mid; inability to pressure lead to some very easy scoring chains for Port
11:40 (time-on clock) - flies into Betts' lead for the ball, almost forcing the ball to spill; very obvious lead, but never looked ahead of him before Murphy kicked the ball to see Betts steaming up the field; thankfully bounced straight back up and provided an option for Eddie, though deep in the pocket
10:12 - receives clean possession outside the congestion after a dropped McKay mark, facing directly up-field thus with F50 structure and leads in full view, but seems to have never even glanced in that direction, resulting in a blind snap off his left that Betts and McGovern do not read correctly, and McKenzie would have gobbled up if not for a wonky bounce; worked out through this, and overlap run from others
8:40 - set himself up at the top of the D50 arc to protect the higher lead up the middle (presumably from the hotspot), but one glance behind him would have made it apparent he wasn't needed, then another glance straight down the corridor would have shown him he was needed further up to pressure release options; ball went quickly from one wing to the other, and into the pocket where Port got a shot on goal
8:17 - Gibbons rotates forward, moving Cuningham into his structural role in transitioning from HB; Cuningham receives through advantage paid from McGovern's free, hits McKay on the shoulder and Gibbons is used by not being used as he streams into the 50 for a regulation snap from 15m out
7:24 - Gibbons off the field now, Martin provides a receive option for transition off HB, and combines with Cuningham up the wing as our forward line is rich with 1v1 contests from the remaining forwards; Martin tries to draw something out, then takes the shot; Gibbons on wing at next centre bounce
6:40 - Gibbons (again, on the wing) gets caught up in the congestion after trailing Amon from the centre bounce, ball skids into his direction, he gathers cleanly - attacking side of the centre circle while facing in the defensive direction of the ground - then, after spotting Murphy in front of him (and possibly Cuningham in his periphery, in a position to shepherd) immediately handballs over his shoulder; unclear if intended target was Walsh or Pittonet, though both were in the congestion
6:40 (cont.) - free kick advantage immediately after this, slowly jogs into 50, not glancing to his left to spot three unmarked Port opponents being almost directly in front of him, then winding up in no man's land to impact the next reachable play offensive or defensively due to lack of urgency; almost removes himself from the next play due to anticipating the turnover being successful, but still shows zero urgency in reaction to a Houston fumble, both instances presenting opportunities for an outside receive (one likely, one unlikely) and then easy score
I can't be bothered watching the rest of the quarter, but you get the idea. Do I expect him to nail all three of those opportunities? No, but I think it's fair to glance in another direction every so often when it's bleedingly obvious his team mate isn't looking to pass to him. I also think it's reasonable to quickly glance towards the outside of the congestion after securing the football. An AFL footballer should not be blind handballing over their shoulder back into congestion; you always direct the ball to the outside unless you have a read (whether it be a voice or having had a glance/view prior).
I also think it's fair that you should have the tenth of a second to check to your left while jogging to position, even if you're tiring. I expect an AFL footballer to execute 2 of those 3 correctly most of the time.
I'm highlighting Cuningham and Martin's work a bit because it shows what happens when others get to step into his role. Cuningham isn't exactly brilliant in knowing where to run, but I presume he's more coachable than a puppy, so once he gets more dedicated minutes on how to read the incoming ball and where he can position to potentially gather the crumb if he cannot impact the marking point in the pack, his athleticism and skill execution will allow him to be far more damaging than Gibbons' efforts in that role. Frankly, Cuningham's possessions tend to mean an extra 15-30 m of ball movement by default.
Martin is a weapon that can do damage in midfield but the opposition will try to drag much deeper, so if we're able to add more pace to the team overall as well as more minutes in the midfield rotation for him, I'd imagine that opens up more possessions in his way, which creates far more effective scoring chains than what we both know Gibbons can produce.
You keep trying to vaguely point out what Gibbons does well, but I believe what he does well can be replaced on the aggregate through some simple coaching of our more talented younger players. It's not some black-and-white world where they're all blue-ribbon recruits who won't get their hands dirty, and if that's still a mentality that exists in the industry, then I'd consider it priority #1 for improving talent ID and player development because it's really ****ing stupid to think that way.
What cannot be papered over is critical decision making errors that turn regulation AFL play into an unnecessary scrap, and unfortunately Gibbons keeps producing these moments more than others. It's frustrating to me that Champion Data doesn't consistently capturing these moments as clangers (i.e. unforced errors), but I'm hoping their detailed statistical packages highlight what's occurring through related categories.
Your turn, or another one-line post that comes off as incredibly arrogant?
I'm trying to sidestep a circular argument bereft of any real information. Arrow gets into these arguments 3 times a week and it often never progresses into an actual explanation of his thought process. Even now, I'm responding to an obvious deflection while being told I'm an idiot.
I'm not here to be cagey and defensive, I'm here to learn and to discuss. This is not an industry forum: it's a forum for fans, and inbetween the parochial nonsense, rumours and memes, I'd actually like to develop my knowledge of the game.
Cripps moved really well today, with what would be a 26+ possession game under normal conditions. Keep in mind that the shorter the game gets, the less his ability to grind through the game comes to the fore.
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Its a really good positive and hopefully our points against tightens up, our personal won't change much this year, so we need to find a way to limit the damage coming back the other way.
I really like what i saw today, the last minute was disappointing, but its clear we are a dangerous team.
- Nov 27, 2016
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I think some pieces of the puzzle are really starting to set in now.
We already had Cripps. Weiters. Doc. CC when alive.
We added Walsh,became quickly sure about Martin. McKay has reminded us he belongs.
Gibbo is there despite the ridiculousness of some. Just a very useful link player who kicks and sets up goals. The much maligned Plow too. Jones was almost in AA form before today. He is a Piece of three puzzle too.
MCG showed real intensity today. As he did last week. He’s very important.
The two guys who have really confirmed themselves in my mind are Willo and Setters. Willo is VERY good one on one. As he learns to focus on his match up he willbecome a very good shut down defender. He’s not super quick but not slow and does most things well.
setters has me worried after a wonderful preseason. He was unsure of himself. Fumbling. Well fhe last four weeks he’s been terrific. He may be in his fourth year but he’s missed a lot of footy and is more like a 3rd year player. Def belongs.
As the season goes on I’d like to see a couple more pieces lock in on the board. A Zac Fisher here, a more convincing SPS there. A consistent Cunners.
It’s all coming together nicely. It really is.
We already had Cripps. Weiters. Doc. CC when alive.
We added Walsh,became quickly sure about Martin. McKay has reminded us he belongs.
Gibbo is there despite the ridiculousness of some. Just a very useful link player who kicks and sets up goals. The much maligned Plow too. Jones was almost in AA form before today. He is a Piece of three puzzle too.
MCG showed real intensity today. As he did last week. He’s very important.
The two guys who have really confirmed themselves in my mind are Willo and Setters. Willo is VERY good one on one. As he learns to focus on his match up he willbecome a very good shut down defender. He’s not super quick but not slow and does most things well.
setters has me worried after a wonderful preseason. He was unsure of himself. Fumbling. Well fhe last four weeks he’s been terrific. He may be in his fourth year but he’s missed a lot of footy and is more like a 3rd year player. Def belongs.
As the season goes on I’d like to see a couple more pieces lock in on the board. A Zac Fisher here, a more convincing SPS there. A consistent Cunners.
It’s all coming together nicely. It really is.
Good post...for what it’s worth I agree with all except for Gov and Setters...
unfortunately re Gov my take was a very good Q1, a reasonable Q2 but an almost inconsequential second half...this is the standard Gov whereas I was hoping last week would become his ‘baseline’...hope we can get him more involved consistently throughout games as the year goes on...
I actually thought Setters wasn’t bad...not his best game but particularly in the second half started providing a good contest around the ball...
Anyway, fairly subjective, but that’s what I saw
I was thinking about this and actually I feel we might be a bit unfair to the midfield at times when it comes to our I50 count..at least in the Port game.
How many times did we see our defenders rebound and kick long to the wing/half forward to our forwards, only for them to lose the contest and Port's defenders send it straight back I50? It happened a lot and really those situations weren't the midfield's fault.
If our forwards won those down the line contests, or at least halve the contest and force a throw in/ball up, then Port wouldn't have got so many repeat I50's.
thylacine60
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I like our more patient game..........
Just no, none of those 3 should be dropped. All 3 of those guys contributed to a degree today. We lost after the siren to a side on top FFS.
I’m pissed off we let a big opportunity split, but the important thing is how we respond.
I’d go in unchanged again, barring unforeseen injuries I don’t know about.
North have been terrible, but we know they have some very good players who can hurt us. Looks like no Ziebell or cunnington though. I worry about Brown, Goldy, Higgins etc turning it on against us like they have in the past.
A win of any kind, no matter how narrow or ugly will do me fine.
I can't see us making any changes this week. Only 3 in the gun for me would be Murphy who looks cooked and playing for a cheque but will never be dropped, Kennedy who was poor after a good game the week before so teague will probably back him in again and cunners who has the mental strength of a potato and despite one good game has barely averaged more than 9 touches and 2 tackles a game but his speed and occasional glimpse of class will keep him in
Unchanged...
Reserves form may need another week because of lay-off...
We play our way we win comfortably...
Belief is growing by the week...
Reserves form may need another week because of lay-off...
We play our way we win comfortably...
Belief is growing by the week...
Imo we will quickly become a better team when we replace Murphy and Newnes. And we have the perfect options with Fisher, Dow and JSOS now being available.
I'll leave it up to Teague to get the transfer time correct because there's a fair bit that comes into play in the next few weeks with the compressed schedule, being in interstate hubs and etc.
I get the strong feeling that Teague will have to lock Johnny Barker in a cupboard in order to get Murphy outta the team, but if Goody Goodstuff Goodwin can summon the courage with Nathan Jones, i have faith in Teague to get it done with Murph.
Nothing says "the time is now" more to a team than moving on from an ex captain clawing on with only a few smarts left in his kitbag.
We are getting better and we can get a lot better still.
I'll leave it up to Teague to get the transfer time correct because there's a fair bit that comes into play in the next few weeks with the compressed schedule, being in interstate hubs and etc.
I get the strong feeling that Teague will have to lock Johnny Barker in a cupboard in order to get Murphy outta the team, but if Goody Goodstuff Goodwin can summon the courage with Nathan Jones, i have faith in Teague to get it done with Murph.
Nothing says "the time is now" more to a team than moving on from an ex captain clawing on with only a few smarts left in his kitbag.
We are getting better and we can get a lot better still.
No. I believe he was held over as our emergency
Perfect time for transition this week
Give him a rest before we hub in WA
Then give simmo a rest once we get to Perth
Get the young blood in.
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