Rolling All Australian Team 2020

[Scotland]

and zero running bounces

Tom Hawkins has only 2 rebound 50s for the season and people won't even consider not selecting him.

 

[Sea fog]

Tom Hawkins has only 2 rebound 50s for the season and people won't even consider not selecting him.

In theory though that's because he's clearly the best in his position, whereas Nit Nat perhaps is not considered to be fully-rounded as a ruck and some critics would opt for Goldy or Gawn, whereas the Coleman is usually compelling evidence. Love NN though.

 

[estibador]

TBH I think regency bias comes into things. Should play in favour of May. Doesn’t take away from the fact he’s been great all year and deserves it. Just makes him harder to ignore.

Recency bias didn't help Pav in 2012. He kicked 51 goals in his final 12 games and was still snubbed.

 

[HeHateMe]

I can live with Gunston not making it as long as it isn’t to shove a Danger or Trac on the flank.

This.

 

[wal]

Gunston has taken 10 contested marks for the season. Kennedy has 17, Hawkins 27, Dixon 43.

Any reason you left Taberner out of this comparison? 38 contested marks.
Taberner won't get in the team but he is more deserving of spot than Kennedy.

 

[HeHateMe]

Any reason you left Taberner out of this comparison? 38 contested marks.
Taberner won't get in the team but he is more deserving of spot than Kennedy.

View attachment 966130

Good point, for my club he included Gunston which is weird because Gunston isn't a KPP. He should be compared to the other general forwards.

As Eth-Dog pointed out if Tabs comes out and kicks 4+ he could finish 2nd in the Coleman and deserves to be in the conversation for the FF/CHF spot.

 

[eaglespremiers]

In theory though that's because he's clearly the best in his position, whereas Nit Nat perhaps is not considered to be fully-rounded as a ruck and some critics would opt for Goldy or Gawn, whereas the Coleman is usually compelling evidence. Love NN though.

But total marks should not be a deciding factor.
TBH it shouldn't even be a consideration.

 

[Lampers]

But total marks should not be a deciding factor.
TBH it shouldn't even be a consideration.

I really don’t care who makes the All Australian team, but it’s lunacy to suggest marking prowess shouldn’t be a consideration.

It’s a pretty important part of the ruckman’s game.

 

[eaglespremiers]

I really don’t care who makes the All Australian team, but it’s lunacy to suggest marking prowess shouldn’t be a consideration.

It’s a pretty important part of the ruckman’s game.

No, total marks should be irrelevant and don't reflect "marking prowess" in any event.
Contested marks are relevant but that's not what you, or others, are proposing.
A ruckmen is not first and foremost a link up player, this has become skewed and distorted the ruckman role to something that is sub-optimal.

 

[Lampers]

No, total marks should be irrelevant and don't reflect "marking prowess" in any event.
Contested marks are relevant but that's not what you, or others, are proposing.
A ruckmen is not first and foremost a link up player, this has become skewed and distorted the ruckman role to something that is sub-optimal.

Dont assume what I’m proposing.

Link uncontested marks on the wing are “meh”. I can take uncontested marks on a wing and hand pass to a runner.

Contested marks to repel attacks are very important. Contested marks to help your team clear after a behind are very important. Contested marks in the forward line are very important.

I understand you wanting to compelety stay away from marking when it comes to supporting Naitanui because he’s very bad at it. He is very good at others things though.

I’d run the same argument if I had the same agenda.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Tom Hawkins has only 2 rebound 50s for the season and people won't even consider not selecting him.

All he does is help them score - nothing else

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

Jack Gunston now?

It’s tough to get AA selections as a bottom 4 side. Gunston isn’t even the standout best player on his team.

 

[eaglespremiers]

Dont assume what I’m proposing.

Link uncontested marks on the wing are “meh”. I can take uncontested marks on a wing and hand pass to a runner.

Contested marks to repel attacks are very important. Contested marks to help your team clear after a behind are very important. Contested marks in the forward line are very important.

I understand you wanting to compelety stay away from marking when it comes to supporting Naitanui because he’s very bad at it. He is very good at others things though.

I’d run the same argument if I had the same agenda.

But I have always maintained that contested marking, while not at the top echelon of attributes for a ruckman, is important (top 5 of the defined stats that the AFL currently has). I don't accept total marks are a consideration though (I rate this stat similar to metres gained and behind i50s and goal assists).
Of importance are:
1. HOs to Advantage
2. HOs won
3. Clearances
---------------------
4. Contested Marks
5. Goals
----------------------
6. Score Launches
7. Contested Disposals
----------------------
8. Goal Assists
9. Tackles
10. i50s

The dashes denotes diminished importance IMO. Every other stat is virtually irrelevant.

The difference between Naitanui and Goldstein in regard to contested marking per game is 0.2 (or 4 total for the season), so completely negligible.
I note that the difference between these two and say somebody like Gawn is more substantial, however, there are other attributes (for instance, clearances and hitting the score board) that both Naitanui and Goldstein have been superior to Gawn in this year.

I know you might think this is an "agenda" but I'm just calling it as I see it and I'm just as likely to tick off fellow West Coast supporters because I don't particularly rate a player like Dean Cox as a pure ruckman because of his tendency to be a link player and not a clearance beast like Naitanui.

 

[Sea fog]

In theory it should be easier for ruckmen to take contested marks because they sometimes get mismatches around the wings etc.

 

[WWSD]

Jack Gunston now?

It’s tough to get AA selections as a bottom 4 side. Gunston isn’t even the standout best player on his team.

52 scoring shots from just 16 games despite the shortened quarters and Hawthorn ranking last in inside 50s. Gunston has easily been the best half forward this year. He's kicked 2 goals or more 10 times. I doubt he will make the All-Australian team anyway as Hawthorn players get the short end of the stick when it comes to being selected. lol

 

[Lampers]

But I have always maintained that contested marking, while not at the top echelon of attributes for a ruckman, is important (top 5 of the defined stats that the AFL currently has). I don't accept total marks are a consideration though (I rate this stat similar to metres gained and behind i50s and goal assists).
Of importance are:
1. HOs to Advantage
2. HOs won
3. Clearances
---------------------
4. Contested Marks
5. Goals
----------------------
6. Score Launches
7. Contested Disposals
----------------------
8. Goal Assists
9. Tackles
10. i50s

The dashes denotes diminished importance IMO. Every other stat is virtually irrelevant.

The difference between Naitanui and Goldstein in regard to contested marking per game is 0.2 (or 4 total for the season), so completely negligible.
I note that the difference between these two and say somebody like Gawn is more substantial, however, there are other attributes (for instance, clearances and hitting the score board) that both Naitanui and Goldstein have been superior to Gawn in this year.

I know you might think this is an "agenda" but I'm just calling it as I see it and I'm just as likely to tick off fellow West Coast supporters because I don't particularly rate a player like Dean Cox as a pure ruckman because of his tendency to be a link player and not a clearance beast like Naitanui.

You’ve obviously spent time on your theory but I think your theory is likely biased by Naitanui.

I think the other three players in the centre square are there to get clearances, not the ruckman, who is there to get hit outs. If Natanui is best at that it’s a good argument for him.

So I wouldn’t have clearances anywhere near as high on what’s important for a ruck.

The coach will play to the ruckman they have. Naitanui can get clearances and is pretty useless as an around the ground bail out target or ball distributer And has poor endurance - so West Coast exploit and hide those things tactically. West Coast are also fortunate to have McGovern and Barass as intercept markers so don’t need their ruck to drop back.

Just like any of the teams with the good ruckman - their tactics in centre square and ball movement caters to what they’ve got.

 

[HeHateMe]

52 scoring shots from just 16 games despite the shortened quarters and Hawthorn ranking last in inside 50s. Gunston has easily been the best half forward this year. He's kicked 2 goals or more 10 times. I doubt he will make the All-Australian team anyway as Hawthorn players get the short end of the stick when it comes to being selected. lol

I thought that comment deserved to be ignored. That logic can be applied to Papley as well. So yeah pretty absurd.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Jack Gunston now?

It’s tough to get AA selections as a bottom 4 side. Gunston isn’t even the standout best player on his team.

Absolutely been the standout on his team this year.

Who would you have close?

 

[blues4flag]

Actually scrap that. For a Number 1 he has won most one in on ones. Not sure who leads overall. Haha. Should read things properly.

That'd be Liam Jones. Leading pretty much all the key defensive stats (spoils, 1%ers, intercepts, one on one wins).

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

Absolutely been the standout on his team this year.

Who would you have close?

Sicily, Mitchell, Shiels.

If it was the “went alright in a shit side” team, he’d be a shot.

i just don’t see how a bloke who both coaches agree was in the best 6-10 players on the ground only once (against Carlton), gets a look in because he kicks a few meaningless ones against the Gold Coast.

 

[J_harvey372]

I've got Gunston in my team now. Been thinking over the last few hours over who I think makes it. Here's what I got:
BP: L. Ryan (FRE) FB: H. Andrews (BRI) BP: D. Grimes (RIC)
HB: J. Ridley (ESS) CHB: S. May (MEL) HB: C. Daniel (WB)
W: J. Steele (STK) C: T. Boak (PA) W: S. Menegola (GEE)
HF: C. Petracca (MEL) CHF: T. Hawkins (GEE) HF: T. Papley (SYD)
FP: D. Butler (STK) FF: C. Dixon (PA) FP: J. Gunston (HAW)

Ruck: N. Naitanui (WC) Rover: L. Neale (BRI) RR: Patrick Dangerfield

Bench: J. Macrae (WB) T. Adams (COL) J. Weitering (CAR) M. Gawn (MEL)

Captain: P. Dangerfield
Vice-Captain: H. Andrews

Rest of Squad: C. Cameron (BRI), S. Docherty (CAR), B. Maynard (COL), D. Moore (COL), M.Taberner (FRE), M. Duncan (GEE), C. Guthrie (GEE), S. Collins (GC), N. Haynes (GWS), L. Whitfield (GWS), Z. Butters (PA), O. Wines (PA), D. Martin (RIC), N. Vlastuin (RIC), B. Sheppard (WC), T. Kelly (WC), L. Ryan (WC), M. Bontempelli

still unsure over whether Grimes makes it over Maynard and have debated with myself the inclusion of Gawn. Thoughts?

 

[The Falcon Strike]

In theory it should be easier for ruckmen to take contested marks because they sometimes get mismatches around the wings etc.

that assumes the midfield kick it to him

given his disposal by foot - and ourarray of marking options - why would he be in marking contests ?

other than dragging ruckmen into the way of his key markers

 

[Sea fog]

that assumes the midfield kick it to him

given his disposal by foot - and ourarray of marking options - why would he be in marking contests ?

other than dragging ruckmen into the way of his key markers

A ruckman marking around the ground is an asset though.

 

[omit]

I've got Gunston in my team now. Been thinking over the last few hours over who I think makes it. Here's what I got:
BP: L. Ryan (FRE) FB: H. Andrews (BRI) BP: D. Grimes (RIC)
HB: J. Ridley (ESS) CHB: S. May (MEL) HB: C. Daniel (WB)
W: J. Steele (STK) C: T. Boak (PA) W: S. Menegola (GEE)
HF: C. Petracca (MEL) CHF: T. Hawkins (GEE) HF: T. Papley (SYD)
FP: D. Butler (STK) FF: C. Dixon (PA) FP: J. Gunston (HAW)

Ruck: N. Naitanui (WC) Rover: L. Neale (BRI) RR: Patrick Dangerfield

Bench: J. Macrae (WB) T. Adams (COL) J. Weitering (CAR) M. Gawn (MEL)

Captain: P. Dangerfield
Vice-Captain: H. Andrews

Rest of Squad: C. Cameron (BRI), S. Docherty (CAR), B. Maynard (COL), D. Moore (COL), M.Taberner (FRE), M. Duncan (GEE), C. Guthrie (GEE), S. Collins (GC), N. Haynes (GWS), L. Whitfield (GWS), Z. Butters (PA), O. Wines (PA), D. Martin (RIC), N. Vlastuin (RIC), B. Sheppard (WC), T. Kelly (WC), L. Ryan (WC), M. Bontempelli

still unsure over whether Grimes makes it over Maynard and have debated with myself the inclusion of Gawn. Thoughts?

I think Oliver is stiff not to at least make the squad of 40.

1st in clearances
1st in contested possessions
2nd in tackles

 

[WWSD]

Sicily, Mitchell, Shiels.

If it was the “went alright in a sh*t side” team, he’d be a shot.

i just don’t see how a bloke who both coaches agree was in the best 6-10 players on the ground only once (against Carlton), gets a look in because he kicks a few meaningless ones against the Gold Coast.

Sicily and Shiels have been average this year. Which half forward has been better than Gunston?