Analysis Rome wasn't re-built in a day

[Darkyprotector]

Wow just wow

Carlton
Pick 1s
Murphy wetering murphy kreuzer
Pick 2 Thomas
Pick 3 Dowell

Us pick 1 ........no one
Pick 2. .......no one
Pick 5. De goey. Pendels
Pick 7. Shaz
Pick. 9. Moore
Pick 10 sidey

Noticing the difference
It's huge
So don't tell me Carltons coach is a gun
He has the cattle
We dont
Add
Gibbs last year another 1, walker 2. Judd 2
That's 8 top 2 selections to 0
Perspective

 

[Darkyprotector]

I don't understand how we can criticize our list so much when there's 8 or so players who either haven't played a game yet or are around the 5-10 game mark.

Every list has 6-8 players that are delisting types.

Every club plays a season with close wins/loses yet we seem to use the excuse that.. 'we were in the game right up until the last quarter or minute'. A loss is a friggen loss.

We are so biased about how we got screwed in trades and drafts.. we only look at what we perceive to be bad deals.. well what about our good ones.. how's about we look at other clubs f ups as well. Are we blinded by how fortunate we were to trade O'Brien and Kennedy to Melbourne for eg.

As far as Nathan goes.. the bloke is a bad coach.. why.. refer to my 500 posts on him.

Im so confused as to what his trying to accomplish. Haven't the slightest clue.

Hurts me to say this gimp but its pointing that way

I have some hope that the hawks simply out coached us and were better prepared

Couple of moves

Maynard ain't a back mans bum , panics has to lay mid or defensive forward , I would have put him on Mitchell might have learnt something
Mayne played CHB at times and went well , he has a crack and at least has intensity , should have been on burqoyne
Broomhead should have been picked instead of smith
Brown for aish
Seir for phillips
WHE should have been forward and cox deeper with varcoe nearby

Keeping Harvey lol

 

[Gone Critical]

If my memory serves, wasn't Zaharakis' refusal due to a fear of needles, not because of better judgment?

That was Essendon's line because it just didnt sound good to say a couple of players refused to take part because it didn't seem right to them. Dempsey was the other I think.

Zaharakis was interviewed at my local footy club a couple of seasons ago by Andy Maher, both having links there. One thing Andy asked directly was about the needle phobia. Zaharakis laughed and said - up until that time I had had every vaccination, flushot, injection etc the club suggested I needed without any problems at all. I wont say anything more-

 

[Darkyprotector]

Think Smith will get the message with his first delisting

Seriously he's that bad he should be delisted twice lol

And he's giving press time lol and his opinion counts

He should try doing something

 

[Darkyprotector]

That was Essendon's line because it just didnt sound good to say a couple of players refused to take part because it didn't seem right to them. Dempsey was the other I think.

Zaharakis was interviewed at my local footy club a couple of seasons ago by Andy Maher, both having links there. One thing Andy asked directly was about the needle phobia. Zaharakis laughed and said - up until that time I had had every vaccination, flushot, injection etc the club suggested I needed without any problems at all. I wont say anything more-

That was Essendon's line because it just didnt sound good to say a couple of players refused to take part because it didn't seem right to them. Dempsey was the other I think.

Zaharakis was interviewed at my local footy club a couple of seasons ago by Andy Maher, both having links there. One thing Andy asked directly was about the needle phobia. Zaharakis laughed and said - up until that time I had had every vaccination, flushot, injection etc the club suggested I needed without any problems at all. I wont say anything more-

 

[parvey]

Hurts me to say this gimp but its pointing that way

I have some hope that the hawks simply out coached us and were better prepared

Couple of moves

Maynard ain't a back mans bum , panics has to lay mid or defensive forward , I would have put him on Mitchell might have learnt something
Mayne played CHB at times and went well , he has a crack and at least has intensity , should have been on burqoyne
Broomhead should have been picked instead of smith
Brown for aish
Seir for phillips
WHE should have been forward and cox deeper with varcoe nearby

Keeping Harvey lol

Sorry mate but I have to pull you up a bit here

Maynard should be tried forward, nothing to lose
Burgoyne would have destroyed mayne and mayne is only 188cm and slow as treackle
Brommhead should never be picked again, too many chances, too many failures and needs to be delisted
Brown is a panic " I need to handball off because I don't know what else to do with the ball" type
WHE needs to grow balls and start getting 25 plus posessions a game instead of 16 to 18, just doesn't get it enough and doesn't go in hard enough
Varcoe is just putrid, averages 9 disposals a game and runs around getting wind burn for nothing, delist
Sier has done absolutely nothing, be better off persisting with Kirby
Phillips is just a slow nothing footballer who will have a career of not more than 5 years, delist

 

[mike123]

Seriously he's that bad he should be delisted twice lol

And he's giving press time lol and his opinion counts

He should try doing something

Buckley should stop playing him

 

[Carringbush2010]

When we do have all our cattle on the field we look pretty good, more in between the ears, don’t keep backing themselves in, like they should.

Not always, there were glimpses when we're near full strength we pull it off and I maintain the instruction is impossible to pull off week to week. We've got the grunt to win the ball but we don't have the leg speed or ball speed (transition via exceptional DE) to outnumber on the spread. And those failings are largely a result of our uber shitty development / management and guess who is (supposed to be) responsible and accountable for that? That's right the FD and the coaching panel. And guess who is (supposed to be) responsible and accountable for those staff members? That's right the board and the president. Until the club takes on responsibility and accountability from the top down we'll be forever mired in mediocrity while the club continues the "nothing to see here" attitude.

 

[Darkyprotector]

Buckley should stop playing him

At the moment there aint much in the cupboard IMO
Not ready or injured and far too much trust placed in the same guys all the time

Gotta play seir he's the future and wills and play tough footy

Gotta play all the sa boys and hope at least 1 can thrive and then trade em all at this point they ain't even steak knifes

Mayne needs to play , at least he hits up, at least he sets a few screens
I'd go with him and WHE

 

[ThexderX]

....but Dublin was. Built in a day

The Commitments - 1991

Substitute "Dublin" for "Collingwood's game plan and recruiting policy"

 

[Carringbush2010]

Not always, there were glimpses when we're near full strength we pull it off and I maintain the instruction is impossible to pull off week to week. We've got the grunt to win the ball but we don't have the leg speed or ball speed (transition via exceptional DE) to outnumber on the spread. And those failings are largely a result of our uber shitty development / management and guess who is (supposed to be) responsible and accountable for that? That's right the FD and the coaching panel. And guess who is (supposed to be) responsible and accountable for those staff members? That's right the board and the president. Until the club takes on responsibility and accountability from the top down we'll be forever mired in mediocrity while the club continues the "nothing to see here" attitude.

To add, I know there were a lot of changes in the off season in the FD and some board changes as well as a skills focus. But after the pre season we've had and the round 1 debacle I don't see any change or improvement.

 

[Darkyprotector]

Sorry mate but I have to pull you up a bit here

Maynard should be tried forward, nothing to lose
Burgoyne would have destroyed mayne and mayne is only 188cm and slow as treackle
Brommhead should never be picked again, too many chances, too many failures and needs to be delisted
Brown is a panic " I need to handball off because I don't know what else to do with the ball" type
WHE needs to grow balls and start getting 25 plus posessions a game instead of 16 to 18, just doesn't get it enough and doesn't go in hard enough
Varcoe is just putrid, averages 9 disposals a game and runs around getting wind burn for nothing, delist
Sier has done absolutely nothing, be better off persisting with Kirby
Phillips is just a slow nothing footballer who will have a career of not more than 5 years, delist

Seirs going well best on twice

Mayne 34 posies

You've called a lot of delisted sounds like we're playing with 11 this week lol

We need to trade some of these sad sacks and get top dollar
Gotta play em and hope


Seir yes wills yes greenwood yes all tough ( at least on our list)

Maynard wants to play mid certainly should NEVER be back again, but tagging Mitchell would have achieved 3 things
Education on running patterns
Test his competivness
Restricted mitchell

 

[mike123]

Mayne needs to play

Wat

 

[left at home]

Not always, there were glimpses when we're near full strength we pull it off and I maintain the instruction is impossible to pull off week to week. We've got the grunt to win the ball but we don't have the leg speed or ball speed (transition via exceptional DE) to outnumber on the spread. And those failings are largely a result of our uber shitty development / management and guess who is (supposed to be) responsible and accountable for that? That's right the FD and the coaching panel. And guess who is (supposed to be) responsible and accountable for those staff members? That's right the board and the president. Until the club takes on responsibility and accountability from the top down we'll be forever mired in mediocrity while the club continues the "nothing to see here" attitude.

The instruction is not impossible, when playing with belief and confidence with one another those things happen even under pressure.
When we are under the pump the players go into there shell and stop believing in each other. They do not go when they should, and that is on the player no one else. Against the hawks they believe like most on here the hawks would be a walk over, and played like it. Well we are not good enough for that. They have to get a hardness in them. They yet to believe. When they do the results will come, when that will happen no idea. It up to the players now

 

[Carringbush2010]

The instruction is not impossible

No it's not, but we can't do it week to week because as I said we don't have right cattle to do so. Self belief in the playing group you're part of comes from (in part) good coaching (development) and list management. Neither of which we've had since the wheels fell off all of those years ago and that is in part to blame for where we are and why we are not a hawthorn or bulldogs to consistently execute the instruction.

 

[Black_White]

Can’t read this thread without....

 

[left at home]

No it's not, but we can't do it week to week because as I said we don't have right cattle to do so. Self belief in the playing group you're part of comes from (in part) good coaching (development) and list management. Neither of which we've had since the wheels fell off all of those years ago and that is in part to blame for where we are and why we are not a hawthorn or bulldogs to consistently execute the instruction.

I have seen some shitty caliber teams play finals, cause they believe in them selves and one another, we are yet to believe.
We have enough of the right cattle. It’s time people put more blame onto the players as they do the coaches and every one else.
If you wanted to make it about bucks then take this to the other thread, not interested in him on this one.

 

[Darkyprotector]

The instruction is not impossible, when playing with belief and confidence with one another those things happen even under pressure.
When we are under the pump the players go into there shell and stop believing in each other. They do not go when they should, and that is on the player no one else. Against the hawks they believe like most on here the hawks would be a walk over, and played like it. Well we are not good enough for that. They have to get a hardness in them. They yet to believe. When they do the results will come, when that will happen no idea. It up to the players now

Correct well put and I hope we start doing it

 

[Carringbush2010]

We have enough of the right cattle

Then when why can't we execute the instruction? Belief alone won't deliver and I've told you the reasons why the belief is not there

It’s time people put more blame onto the players as they do the coaches and every one else.

It's time the club as a whole took some accountability from the top down - players included, time to make some hard calls.

If you wanted to make it about bucks then take this to the other thread, not interested in him on this one

Never once mentioned Nathan, I've clearly stated that the FD and coaching panel are not delivering and the board and prez are responsible for those staff members. And that is completely relevant to this thread. Rome is a result of the sum of it's parts just like Collingwood footy club and right now we are way less than the sum of our parts. I've pointed out the reasons why

 

[4tone]

We took little known Sier over highly rated Bonner in 2015 draft.. just another reason why I believe Dekka must go too

Absolutely sick of the " he's a project player hell take his time, he has a lot of upside." **** your projects players, my hard earn't membership money was made from hard work and intelligence, not from speculation.

 

[left at home]

Then when why can't we execute the instruction? Belief alone won't deliver and I've told you the reasons why the belief is not there



It's time the club as a whole took some accountability from the top down - players included, time to make some hard calls.



Never once mentioned Nathan, I've clearly stated that the FD and coaching panel are not delivering and the board and prez are responsible for those staff members. And that is completely relevant to this thread. Rome is a result of the sum of it's parts just like Collingwood footy club and right now we are way less than the sum of our parts. I've pointed out the reasons why

You don’t have to mention him by name it’s written all through it.
I took this thread to be what we need, team wise going forward. Player wise.
If you have played and l am assuming you have, them you would know that believe is a big factor. Especially when the heat is on. They fail when it’s aplied continuously, it does not have to be pretty, just have to keep backing up contest by contest, like the hawks and Sydney do. Get that right with winning then see what else happens.
They Cannot execute under pressure that’s why instruction fails.handle the pressure better, then every thing flows from that.

 

[Carringbush2010]

You don’t have to mention him by name it’s written all through it.

He's part of the coaching panel and FD - he's partly to blame - that's a fact of life. I never said or implied he is solely to blame.

If you have played and l am assuming you have, them you would know that believe is a big factor.

It is and I mentioned why the belief is not there - however I maintain it is only part of building Rome

They Cannot execute under pressure that’s why instruction fails.handle the pressure better, then every thing flows from that.

And in part that is due to poor development, players as you and I know are not robots and the coaching panel are the ones charged with getting them into the right head space; individually and collectively and I agree it does not look like most of them are and I'm making the observation that the coaching panel are partly to blame for that. You can't just as a coach say "have the right attitude son" and expect it will happen and I admit it is difficult to be a good coaching group and you need to be natural leaders to accomplish a happy playing group - going on the evidence we have I'm not convinced they are.

 

[parvey]

Seirs going well best on twice

Mayne 34 posies

You've called a lot of delisted sounds like we're playing with 11 this week lol

We need to trade some of these sad sacks and get top dollar
Gotta play em and hope


Seir yes wills yes greenwood yes all tough ( at least on our list)

Maynard wants to play mid certainly should NEVER be back again, but tagging Mitchell would have achieved 3 things
Education on running patterns
Test his competivness
Restricted mitchell

My frustration is showing with all the delists but I do wish Wills was fit and available, the sooner he gets in that midfield the better

 

[Harambe Pie]

So do we need a re-build? If not, where does the turnaround come from? If yes:

• Partial or total? Maybe our list is only slightly 'unbalanced', maybe it is beyond salvation, or maybe it is just right.
• A re-build with or without Buckley?
• Which players should be delisted?
• Which players can/should be traded? Is Ben Reid's trade value diminishing faster than his hair?
• How much attention do we pay to recruiting players for need, or do we mostly focus on the draft?
• How long do you think a re-build will take before it yields a finals appearance?
• How long could a new coach be expected to weather the storm of a re-build?
• Just thought I'd put in another sentence for the sake of another question mark?

My own view is that our list is in need of some serious repair, but I also think that the purported skills-deficit has been overblown, and that a portion of our deficiencies can be corrected under a different regime. In short, I'm thinking a partial re-build with a new coach. Beyond that, I'm as lost in the wilderness as the next supporter.

I think there is an incredible skills deficit at the club at present. If you look at our ability to execute fundamental skillful aspects of the game, such as stringing 3 kicks together, generating goals from defensive 50 and converting inside 50s into goals, then we are woefully deficient. I think you could probably name the good ball users at the club on one hand, and frankly thats not good enough. In reference to your points:

- Total rebuild: it's time to accept that we cannot rebuild on the run. To get the best talent in we need to bottom out and gain access to the best players in ths draft. The list is out of whack with a dearth of key position talent and overall size. The blues are younger than we are but some of their bright prospects look like He Man compared to some of our lads.

- Cant see how rebuilding with Bucks could be an option. The list is a mess and there's no game style. We play this pathetic zone defense that haemorrhages goals on the counter attack and have no offensive structure whatsoever.

- I don't know about delistings, but I'd be looking at what I could get for some of the blokes over 26 years. Might be a harsh call but if you can pick up a couple of extra picks or young players you can accelerate that rebuild.

- Recruiting strategy needs to look at maximising young talent.

- might take three years for a finals appearance and the new coach should be given that time and leniency to develop a game plan

 

[gopies1981]

Things can turn around quickly with a right coach and coaching staff around him. When bucks goes this year Eddie will follow and with the right president who is passionate about rebuilding Collingwood for the next tilt at a premiership we could look at 2021-2022 at the flag tilt. We must not make short cuts go for youth. Will need to poach the best recruiters in the game looking at either Geelong or hawthorn.

Remember Collingwood won the spoon in 1999 and then played in back to back grand finals in 2002 and 2003