Certified Legendary Thread Roos lodge plans for massive Arden St upgrade

[The Warlord]

Warlord lives for boring political debate.

Heh, keeps me in the style to which I've become accustomed.

 

[The Warlord]

I just paid ( for the first time) a land tax on my unit. Part of the Covid Debt repayment plan. Glad I could help out the Vic Gov. pity they can’t fix the potholes in my road

Yeah that'd be the council's responsibility.

 

[The Warlord]

[CLICKS SHOW IGNORED CONTENT]

Sees it is tragic CTE sufferers posting the same tired jokes they did in 2007, returns to normal people posting

 

[LuvtheKangas]

LOL, you mean ten events that may or may not go ahead in Glasgow

We Victorian taxayers will be so gratified if it doesn't go ahead but we still have to pay over $500,000,000 because of abject incompetence.

 

[Zondor]

We Victorian taxayers will be so gratified if it doesn't go ahead but we still have to pay over $500,000,000 because of abject incompetence.

C'mon Mate. It is only money. We can simply borrow some more. Because Government Debt doesn't matter and means nothing. But strangely Land Tax and Payroll Tax have been increased. Not sure why. But apparently nothing to do with Debt because Government Debt doesn't matter. :stern look

 

[Sphynx]

Yep, my understanding is we're very happy about that too.

The club is very happy that one of the single largest, non-nuclear power station construction projects ever to be greenlit on earth, which was to provide 10's of thousands of jobs, local amenities and further residential and accommodation development is no longer being built a few hundred meters from the football ground?

Considering they have just built a a multi billion dollar train station in preparation for it's existence?

That is certainly the biggest of long bows, even for you.

The club should be worried how the government are currently scheming to make their current sunk costs feasible for what is billions of dollars of rail track to an industrial area in the middle of nowhere with no meaningful use.

The Arden development is not even a crumb on the sole of the shoe of this master plan and will be cast aside at will if required. In fact so will the Oval's presence at all if it means fulfilling the requirements of that train station now.

I pray those at the club are not that stupid regarding the potential ramifications of the canning of the RMH/RWH.

Arden St is an extremely easy target in a major development corridor. Certainly far easier than other relatively inner city training facilities like Punt Rd, Olympic Park, Princess Park, Whitten Oval, (even consider Junction Oval) which have had 5-6 x the public funding sunk into it in the last 10 years which have future proofed it.

I'll feel more comfortable when I see a little more than a bullshit master plan with no funding model, no fleshed out details, no dates and really very little traction in 4-5 years.

REAL projects of this nature get announced and done. Quickly. Especially one's heavily based on civil and soft landscapes (the acquisitions aside)

 

[Chadwiko]

The big challenge for our club to receive development funding for Arden St is that the only alternative to Labor in this state is a Greens and Teals and independents coalition and they aren't going to let us cut down the trees to build a covered grandstand.

Nah.

Firstly, this notion that Greens/Teals would block development because of a few trees is something straight out of the Murdoch playbook. That's just not based in reality really. The broader Arden St Precinct plan involves the expansion of open/accessible green space, not a reduction. It would be supported politically by the Greens/Teals in your hypothetical as it aligns with their Planning policies.

Secondly, any covered grandstand going up at Arden St would almost certainly go where the current outdoor soccer pitch is, meaning the removal of existing established trees would be minimal;

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

Nah.

Firstly, this notion that Greens/Teals would block development because of a few trees is something straight out of the Murdoch playbook. That's just not based in reality really. The broader Arden St Precinct plan involves the expansion of open/accessible green space, not a reduction. It would be supported politically by the Greens/Teals in your hypothetical as it aligns with their Planning policies.

Secondly, any covered grandstand going up at Arden St would almost certainly go where the current outdoor soccer pitch is, meaning the removal of existing established trees would be minimal;

View attachment 2135245

I think you might have missed the point by a wide margin.

 

[The Warlord]

The club is very happy that one of the single largest, non-nuclear power station construction projects ever to be greenlit on earth, which was to provide 10's of thousands of jobs, local amenities and further residential and accommodation development is no longer being built a few hundred meters from the football ground?

Considering they have just built a a multi billion dollar train station in preparation for it's existence?

That is certainly the biggest of long bows, even for you.

Yes, because it means that WE will be the major institution in the area. If the hospital was there it would be the hospital precinct.

Also, I think you misunderstand the situation. Just because the hospital stuff is not happening doesn't mean the whole area is being left vacant lol.

They're not filling the metro tunnel in ffs, it'll be housing and retail. And we will be the anchor there.

Not that difficult of a concept to grasp, even for you.

The club should be worried how the government are currently scheming to make their current sunk costs feasible for what is billions of dollars of rail track to an industrial area in the middle of nowhere with no meaningful use.

The Arden development is not even a crumb on the sole of the shoe of this master plan and will be cast aside at will if required. In fact so will the Oval's presence at all if it means fulfilling the requirements of that train station now.

I pray those at the club are not that stupid regarding the potential ramifications of the canning of the RMH/RWH.

Arden St is an extremely easy target in a major development corridor. Certainly far easier than other relatively inner city training facilities like Punt Rd, Olympic Park, Princess Park, Whitten Oval, (even consider Junction Oval) which have had 5-6 x the public funding sunk into it in the last 10 years which have future proofed it.

I'll feel more comfortable when I see a little more than a bullshit master plan with no funding model, no fleshed out details, no dates and really very little traction in 4-5 years.

REAL projects of this nature get announced and done. Quickly. Especially one's heavily based on civil and soft landscapes (the acquisitions aside)

Wow, you've gone and made up a scenario where Arden Street itself is being dug up lololololol.

Amazing stuff.

 

[The Warlord]

Nah.

Firstly, this notion that Greens/Teals would block development because of a few trees is something straight out of the Murdoch playbook. That's just not based in reality really.

Come on man, this kind of NIMBY shit is rife in inner city Melbourne, and tends to be led by Green types. That's just a fact.

Look at how Green controlled Yarra Council has deliberately stuffed sporting clubs around because of sPoRtSbAlL.

We also hear vanishingly little from our Green local member, the bloodless hypocrite Ellen Sandell, or Bandt for that matter.

Its reflective of the evolution of the Greens, especially in Victoria, from the party of people like Di Natale (an actual footy player) and good North supporter Cathy Oke into a post-materialist upper middle class identity politics focused party.

I attended a fair few of the VPA consultation meetings on the precinct and the main thrust of the other sad losers who attended was the open space in the area.

And you know what, they're right to. There's very limited open space in that hood as is, and us or any other organisation reducing the level of publicly accessible open space would be met with classic chain themselves to the fence type Green voting retired teacher types.

The broader Arden St Precinct plan involves the expansion of open/accessible green space, not a reduction. It would be supported politically by the Greens/Teals in your hypothetical as it aligns with their Planning policies.

Greens respond to Arden Structure Plan “mess” with five-point plan

The Greens have responded to the state government’s “planning mess” of the Arden Structure Plan by releasing a five-point plan they say will fix the issue.

www.northwestcitynews.com.au

They're not supportive of it though.

Secondly, any covered grandstand going up at Arden St would almost certainly go where the current outdoor soccer pitch is, meaning the removal of existing established trees would be minimal;

View attachment 2135245

Trees would need to be removed to even construct something there.

The bigger issue is Macualay Road though.

Really though, when you look at how other clubs moving to outer suburban shitholes like Tullamarine or Seaford has backfired, and the struggles the Dees are having to find a proper home - Caulfield Racecourse now is it? - we've done amazingly well to not only remain at Arden Street but also develop it the way we have.

We both remember waht it was like pre-2008 near death experience, and the change in 16 years has been just amazing, way more than I ever expected.

I also have no worries about the changing in the make up of the re-development around the Metro stop and the new hospital buildings going to Parkville rather than Arden.

The demand for housing in inner city Melbourne, especially around heavy rail, is insane. It'll boom there and quickly, and that's where there's opportunities for us to finally get some non-footy revenue generation.

 

[The Warlord]

We Victorian taxayers will be so gratified if it doesn't go ahead but we still have to pay over $500,000,000 because of abject incompetence.

Wait until you hear about the $386 billion we're spending on submarines that will never happen.

They should never have agreed to host the 2026 games, it was a dumb decision, but the Commonwealth Games are dead as a concept, at least they pulled out before pouring MORE cash down that hole.

 

[The Warlord]

C'mon Mate. It is only money. We can simply borrow some more.

Yes, we can. It's how government works. Grown ups understand this. The issue is only if you struggle to service the debt, which Victoria is not.

Because Government Debt doesn't matter and means nothing.

It has precisely zero impact on your life lol.

But strangely Land Tax and Payroll Tax have been increased. Not sure why.

Because there was a planet wide natural disaster that hit Victoria hard in 2020, that's why.

Again, grown ups with real world experience understand this.

But apparently nothing to do with Debt because Government Debt doesn't matter. :stern look

The people flocking to move to Victoria, both from interstate and overseas aren't too worried about it are they.

Only people who delude themselves it does matter to their lives are sad weirdos.

Your response will no doubt be some ugly sledge about my mental health, or the fact I had enjoyable social life in my 20s and that's fine btw, play on.

All it does is demonstrate you have absolutely no argument beyond bleating gOvErNmEnT dEbT like some offcut from a Kennett/Neil Mitchell recording in 1994.

 

[Zondor]

Yes, we can. It's how government works. Grown ups understand this. The issue is only if you struggle to service the debt, which Victoria is not.



It has precisely zero impact on your life lol.



Because there was a planet wide natural disaster that hit Victoria hard in 2020, that's why.

Again, grown ups with real world experience understand this.



The people flocking to move to Victoria, both from interstate and overseas aren't too worried about it are they.

Only people who delude themselves it does matter to their lives are sad weirdos.

Your response will no doubt be some ugly sledge about my mental health, or the fact I had enjoyable social life in my 20s and that's fine btw, play on.

All it does is demonstrate you have absolutely no argument beyond bleating gOvErNmEnT dEbT like some offcut from a Kennett/Neil Mitchell recording in 1994.

LOL. You are clueless if you think Government Debt has no impact on your life. :stern look

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Wait until you hear about the $386 billion we're spending on submarines that will never happen.

Two minutes on google shows that this is hyperbole. But it's a convenient deflection to enable holding the Dan-can-do-no-wrong position and never letting go (you're not the only one who runs with it).

https://www.ussc.edu.au/does-aukus-pillar-i-provide-capability-bang-for-buck

They should never have agreed to host the 2026 games, it was a dumb decision, but the Commonwealth Games are dead as a concept, at least they pulled out before pouring MORE cash down that hole.

Yes, you've said it before, and I've said before that we're the only state that paid half a billion plus to avoid the supposed extra costs (that hole).

And if these extra costs are so apparent, how the f**k did Victorian bureaucrats not know it before signing a contract with a ridiculous break penalty included? As I said, abject incompetence. And that's probably an understatement.

 

[The Warlord]

Two minutes on google shows that this is hyperbole.

Right ...

But it's a convenient deflection to enable holding the Dan-can-do-no-wrong position

Dan Andrews isn't Premier and hasn't been for over a year, I deal in facts.

and never letting go (you're not the only one who runs with it).

https://www.ussc.edu.au/does-aukus-pillar-i-provide-capability-bang-for-buck

Ah yes, the United States Studies Centre - funded by the US Government - thinks a deal where Australian taxpayers pay hundreds of billions to subsidise the US defence industry is a good deal.

Well, that settles the matter lol.

Australia overpaid French shipbuilder Naval Group hundreds of millions of dollars in compensation as Anthony Albanese focuses on the bigger strategic picture of rebuilding ties with France to address the challenge China poses to the Pacific order.

The $835 million settlement with Naval Group for the dumped $90 billion French submarine program is expected to pave the way for enhanced defence and security links between Canberra and Paris, according to defence sources.

Australia paid France millions more than necessary for cancelling subs

Australia overpaid French shipbuilder Naval Group hundreds of millions in compensation, but the bigger picture is rebuilding alliances to tackle China.

www.afr.com

Given we paid MORE to break the deal with France over the subs than the Commonwealth Games, shouldn't you vbe even more enraged about that lol?

Yes, you've said it before, and I've said before that we're the only state that paid half a billion plus to avoid the supposed extra costs (that hole).

Yeah, it was a shit decision in retrospect, I'm not hanging an entire government that's been in power for ten years over it.

Especially when the alternative is a rabble obsessed with looking in children's underpants and is currently tearing itself apart in court ... again.

As we saw above, you think AUKUS is a good deal despite having to pay the French $800m plus for nothing, perhaps mon aimi, ze consistency in your sinking is not 'ow you say, complete?

And if these extra costs are so apparent, how the f**k did Victorian bureaucrats not know it before signing a contract with a ridiculous break penalty included? As I said, abject incompetence. And that's probably an understatement.

Governments make mistakes, so do list managers. Its called the real world.

 

[Sphynx]

Yes, because it means that WE will be the major institution in the area. If the hospital was there it would be the hospital precinct.

Also, I think you misunderstand the situation. Just because the hospital stuff is not happening doesn't mean the whole area is being left vacant lol.

They're not filling the metro tunnel in ffs, it'll be housing and retail. And we will be the anchor there.

Not that difficult of a concept to grasp, even for you.



Wow, you've gone and made up a scenario where Arden Street itself is being dug up lololololol.

Amazing stuff.

Sorry.... I think I just finished laughing.

I never said the site is being vacant, the fact you can't identify the risk now involved at this level of planning shows how wet you are behind the ears of such things.

Stick to foreign affairs and the Russian cheerleading.

 

[The Warlord]

Learnings in this thread from BRANE GENUISES:

* Governments should not have debt, they should save up their pocket money and build infrastructure, same as how normal people don't get into debt, everyone buys houses for cash.

* When a Victorian Government does something, it is uniquely bad, and a worse mistake committed by another level of government is actually OK, just ask the people benefiting financially from that mistake, they approve of it.

 

[The Warlord]

LOL. You are clueless if you think Government Debt has no impact on your life. :stern look

Well, it is used to fund the infrastructure and services that make living in Victoria one of the highest standards of living in the world.

Indeed, we have such a high standard of living that we can manage to run a society that copes with simpletons that repeatedly fall off their bikes as grown adults then require extensive health care to return them back to the bike.

 

[Sphynx]

Learnings in this thread from BRANE GENUISES:

* Governments should not have debt, they should save up their pocket money and build infrastructure, same as how normal people don't get into debt, everyone buys houses for cash.

* When a Victorian Government does something, it is uniquely bad, and a worse mistake committed by another level of government is actually OK, just ask the people benefiting financially from that mistake, they approve of it.

Learnings also from this thread.

Apparently if you have excellent immigration numbers you can service anything.

(Except that same person is ignoring the fact we've had close to nation leading net immigration numbers for well over a decade with state debt skyrocketing in that same time).

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Right ...



Dan Andrews isn't Premier and hasn't been for over a year, I deal in facts.



Ah yes, the United States Studies Centre - funded by the US Government - thinks a deal where Australian taxpayers pay hundreds of billions to subsidise the US defence industry is a good deal.

Well, that settles the matter lol.

Australia paid France millions more than necessary for cancelling subs

Australia overpaid French shipbuilder Naval Group hundreds of millions in compensation, but the bigger picture is rebuilding alliances to tackle China.

www.afr.com

Given we paid MORE to break the deal with France over the subs than the Commonwealth Games, shouldn't you vbe even more enraged about that lol?



Yeah, it was a shit decision in retrospect, I'm not hanging an entire government that's been in power for ten years over it.

Especially when the alternative is a rabble obsessed with looking in children's underpants and is currently tearing itself apart in court ... again.

As we saw above, you think AUKUS is a good deal despite having to pay the French $800m plus for nothing, perhaps mon aimi, ze consistency in your sinking is not 'ow you say, complete?



Governments make mistakes, so do list managers. Its called the real world.

Haha, I suppose I should have expected this. You're putting words in my mouth by stating that I think AUKUS is a good deal. I was simply commenting on the hyperbole of $386 billion as a tactic to downplay Dan's Labour government wasting over half a billion to not host the crap games, which followed the earlier East-West link non-road at a cost of over a billion.

I did giggle at your flippant last point. The mistake was monstrous and unacceptable. Again I ask, how the f**k could they not see it? Personally, I think it is grounds for hanging the whole government.

 

[Sphynx]

LOL. You are clueless if you think Government Debt has no impact on your life. :stern look

What are you talking about? apart from currency strength, public/private investment levels, unemployment %'s, inflation and increased taxation - When has government debt ever REALLY mattered?

 

[Zondor]

Well, it is used to fund the infrastructure and services that make living in Victoria one of the highest standards of living in the world.

Indeed, we have such a high standard of living that we can manage to run a society that copes with simpletons that repeatedly fall off their bikes as grown adults then require extensive health care to return them back to the bike.

Debt is OK to a point. It is when debt blows out that it has consequences. Be it to the individual or business or even a State. Like I said Clueless. :stern look

 

[Zondor]

What are you talking about? apart from currency strength, public/private investment levels, unemployment %'s, inflation and increased taxation - When has government debt ever REALLY mattered?

We are arguing with someone who frequently microdoses himself to the eyeballs down at Treasury Gardens. :stern look

 

[The Warlord]

Sorry.... I think I just finished laughing.

I never said the site is being vacant, the fact you can't identify the risk now involved at this level of planning shows how wet you are behind the ears of such things.

Stick to foreign affairs and the Russian cheerleading.

Ahahahahahahahahaha, so you got nothing, absolutely nothing.

Stick to pretending you had "lunch with Clarko" when you just paid a few hunge and turned up at an event with a few dozen others.

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

Are people seriously thinking the state opposition will be swept to power at the next election (coming back from oblivion, mind you) by simply promising to cut services and build no new infrastructure? I am not convinced that people will be swayed by a party intending to do nothing.