List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

[imperial_oz]

The whole "eagles fans dont want Ross sacked" is the biggest load of crap I've heard.

Just like Neesham, Drum and Connolly who were hounded by the WA media, Eagles fans love nothing more than us sacking coaches and making crappy off field decisions. It makes us look like a s**t club who cant stick to a plan.

Sacking a coach with one year left on his contract, paying him out a million dollars and re hashing the list again.
Just another stuff up to add to the list.

As I have said all along lets see where we are next year and if we don't make Finals we will have a new coach.
There is no magic in football, you cant just sack a coach and expect a new one to change everything overnight.

No. It isn't.

I have to deal with too many of the bastards and the one thing they all have in common is their open contempt for Lyon as a coach. The comment 'I hope they sign him up for 20 years' is across the board because it gives them an easy 8 premiership points every season.

It's easy to see why, after losing 9 derbies in a row and all of those losses happened the same way.

Remember the failure is feedback mantra? It's a loose bit of guff that he lobs around at press conferences only. Lyon does not learn from his previous repeated errors which is why he continues to make them over and over and over again.

I'm sick of losing derbies. I'm sick of losing to Hawthorn. I'm sick of losing regularly. I'm sick of no improvement in the players skills and I'm equally sick of people ignoring reality and trying to justify continuing with a coach who is not going to get us to a premiership. His own words about having no excuse not to have won a flag by 2020 should be enough for his supporters to be questioning what he says because we are clearly not going to compete for a premiership any time soon.

 

[Demons09]

No. It isn't.

I have to deal with too many of the bastards and the one thing they all have in common is their open contempt for Lyon as a coach. The comment 'I hope they sign him up for 20 years' is across the board because it gives them an easy 8 premiership points every season.

It's easy to see why, after losing 9 derbies in a row and all of those losses happened the same way.

Remember the failure is feedback mantra? It's a loose bit of guff that he lobs around at press conferences only. Lyon does not learn from his previous repeated errors which is why he continues to make them over and over and over again.

I'm sick of losing derbies. I'm sick of losing to Hawthorn. I'm sick of losing regularly. I'm sick of no improvement in the players skills and I'm equally sick of people ignoring reality and trying to justify continuing with a coach who is not going to get us to a premiership. His own words about having no excuse not to have won a flag by 2020 should be enough for his supporters to be questioning what he says because we are clearly not going to compete for a premiership any time soon.

Thats seems to be ignored by the Lyon supporters , the fact Lyon said we should be contending by 2020.

 

[Whatname]

No. It isn't.

I have to deal with too many of the bastards and the one thing they all have in common is their open contempt for Lyon as a coach. The comment 'I hope they sign him up for 20 years' is across the board because it gives them an easy 8 premiership points every season.

It's easy to see why, after losing 9 derbies in a row and all of those losses happened the same way.

Remember the failure is feedback mantra? It's a loose bit of guff that he lobs around at press conferences only. Lyon does not learn from his previous repeated errors which is why he continues to make them over and over and over again.

I'm sick of losing derbies. I'm sick of losing to Hawthorn. I'm sick of losing regularly. I'm sick of no improvement in the players skills and I'm equally sick of people ignoring reality and trying to justify continuing with a coach who is not going to get us to a premiership. His own words about having no excuse not to have won a flag by 2020 should be enough for his supporters to be questioning what he says because we are clearly not going to compete for a premiership any time soon.

This attitude is the problem.

You care more about what some dickhead Eagle fan/media says than the actual direction of our football club.
There hasn't been one coach of our club that hasn't been harangued by the Eagles/7west mafia.

We have turned over 80% of our list in 3 years, have a team on the cusp on being successful again and have shown improvement in each of the last three years. Yet we lose our shit because the Eagles beat us in the Derby. I would lose every derby for eternity if it meant winning a premiership.

You talk about game style, do you seriously think halfway through the season Ross decided to change the game style to stop scoring.
Because up until mid season we were one of the highest scoring teams in the comp. When you lose Taberner and Hogan it was always going to make it difficult. You love the Eagles so much, ask your mates how the Eagles would go without Kennedy and Darling.

What do you think is going to happen if Ross goes this year, will we win the premiership next year?????

I'll tell you what will happen if we get a new coach.
Firstly the players are going to take time to adjust a new coach, write off a season.
Secondly the new coach will want to implement a new game style, write off a season
Thirdly he will want to make his own changes to list, write off a season.

Then I hope you enjoy another 3 years down the bottom, while Fyfe and Walters piss off to other clubs.
Oh and we won't be able to afford any decent assistants as we will have a 1 million dollar hole in our soft cap.

After that we will have to sack the new coach as he hasn't made finals in 3 years, all the while we will need to rebuild the list again.

I just hope the club isn't stupid enough to listen to the media and fickle supporters who get some perverse enjoyment from seeing a coach sacked or just have no knowledge of how good footy clubs really operate.

 

[Cesoir]

So by your logic we should have never gotten rid of Harvey?

Us pro-success people actually see not having the depth to cover injuries as a problem a coach should try to rectify.

I'm assuming you are suggesting that anyone who doesn't want Lyon sacked is not "pro-success" - i.e. does not want our club to do well? So by extension Kim Hagdorn, Karl Langdon, Brad Hardie and the whole band of merry media men just want success for Fremantle? Give me a break!

Just because we don't all see the path to success the same way you do doesn't mean we don't want success. It's easy to say a change of coach will lead to success - as it obviously did with Drum, Connolly, Harvey and Lyon - because nobody can say with any certainty what will happen in any given set of circumstances.

I am not emotionally attached to Lyon staying or going, but at this stage I am happy to let him see his contract out. That doesn't mean I am pro-failure.

 

[Whatname]

I'm assuming you are suggesting that anyone who doesn't want Lyon sacked is not "pro-success" - i.e. does not want our club to do well? So by extension Kim Hagdorn, Karl Langdon, Brad Hardie and the whole band of merry media men just want success for Fremantle? Give me a break!

Just because we don't all see the path to success the same way you do doesn't mean we don't want success. It's easy to say a change of coach will lead to success - as it obviously did with Drum, Connolly, Harvey and Lyon - because nobody can say with any certainty what will happen in any given set of circumstances.

I am not emotionally attached to Lyon staying or going, but at this stage I am happy to let him see his contract out. That doesn't mean I am pro-failure.

I think this is where the majority of real fans sit.

Understand the cost of changing coaches, understand the coach we have is actually doing an OK job, understand he will judged next year when his contract is up.

Hell we may even make Finals next year and decide he is no longer the right man for the job.
I could wear that because at least we are keeping to a process not making a wildly rushed emotive decision on the back of a Derby loss.

 

[Freeeoo]

If you get chance, watch David King's segment on AFL360 last night, he sums our position up pretty well imo.

 

[Randomizor]

I'm assuming you are suggesting that anyone who doesn't want Lyon sacked is not "pro-success" - i.e. does not want our club to do well? So by extension Kim Hagdorn, Karl Langdon, Brad Hardie and the whole band of merry media men just want success for Fremantle? Give me a break!

Just because we don't all see the path to success the same way you do doesn't mean we don't want success. It's easy to say a change of coach will lead to success - as it obviously did with Drum, Connolly, Harvey and Lyon - because nobody can say with any certainty what will happen in any given set of circumstances.

I am not emotionally attached to Lyon staying or going, but at this stage I am happy to let him see his contract out. That doesn't mean I am pro-failure.

Thank you for your response.

The term “Lyon hater” and it’s variants appear to have mod approval so I thought I’d use a term which more accurately reflects the position of those that dare be critical of the club and coach.

Either none of the terms are acceptable, or both are. I’d be interested in your position on this.

 

[Cesoir]

Thank you for your response.

The term “Lyon hater” and it’s variants appear to have mod approval so I thought I’d use a term which more accurately reflects the position of those that dare be critical of the club and coach.

Either none of the terms are acceptable, or both are. I’d be interested in your position on this.

I don't like either to be honest Randomizor - I think it is just as petty to call people "Lyon Haters" as it is to call them sycophants or kool-aid drinkers.

It would be nice if people could have differing opinions without trying to convince others that they are right - I can't ever remember a poster on here saying "you know what, you're right and I'm wrong"

 

[Joao]

I don't like either to be honest Randomizor - I think it is just as petty to call people "Lyon Haters" as it is to call them sycophants or kool-aid drinkers.

It would be nice if people could have differing opinions without trying to convince others that they are right - I can't ever remember a poster on here saying "you know what, you're right and I'm wrong"

I definitely agree that name calling gets you nowhere in a serious argument, but this thread has shown there is no changing minds. Each side (plus the neutrals) have presented their side multiple times and nothing has changed. We've added a few more Ross out supporters on the back of the last 5 weeks but agree don't think a single person has changed their mind as a result of discussion in this thread.

Should try and steer the conversation to all the media coverage and innuendo out there. Re that, what I find really interesting is the complete difference outlook of the WA media to the Vic media. The Vics seem to think he is being run out of town (a few have explicit said that is what they believe is happening) and yet the WA guys reckon all the noise is warranted and there is real discontent down at Cockburn. It will be fascinating to see if it is literally a case of the Vics backing Ross in (A Vic) or if the WA media is actually just trying to drive him out.

I'm sitting in between. Don't reckon everything is rosy, but also don't think it is anywhere near as bad as the WA media is making out.

 

[Midnite65]

I definitely agree that name calling gets you nowhere in a serious argument, but this thread has shown there is no changing minds. Each side (plus the neutrals) have presented their side multiple times and nothing has changed. We've added a few more Ross out supporters on the back of the last 5 weeks but agree don't think a single person has changed their mind as a result of discussion in this thread.

Should try and steer the conversation to all the media coverage and innuendo out there. Re that, what I find really interesting is the complete difference outlook of the WA media to the Vic media. The Vics seem to think he is being run out of town (a few have explicit said that is what they believe is happening) and yet the WA guys reckon all the noise is warranted and there is real discontent down at Cockburn. It will be fascinating to see if it is literally a case of the Vics backing Ross in (A Vic) or if the WA media is actually just trying to drive him out.

I'm sitting in between. Don't reckon everything is rosy, but also don't think it is anywhere near as bad as the WA media is making out.

Showing him dressed as the Riddler would tend to support the Vics view the WA media are tyring to drive him out of town.

 

[Joao]

Showing him dressed as the Riddler would tend to support the Vics view the WA media are tyring to drive him out of town.

I agree they are definitely going harder than they would be for say Bell if he were coach, but is it at least partly warranted? The reason why I tend to lean more towards agenda is the complete contrast between the two states. If there were real big issues as the West makes out, then the Vics would report it to some extent (even if not as extravagantly). When the budding issues happened last year, the Vics were on to it just as much and yet with this it's like they are getting their info from WA's media.

 

[Cesoir]

I agree they are definitely going harder than they would be for say Bell if he were coach, but is it at least partly warranted? The reason why I tend to lean more towards agenda is the complete contrast between the two states. If there were real big issues as the West makes out, then the Vics would report it to some extent (even if not as extravagantly). When the budding issues happened last year, the Vics were on to it just as much and yet with this it's like they are getting their info from WA's media.

I spent some time with one of the main 6pr protagonists in a social / recreational environment some years ago, and trust me it is not unreasonable to assume that he thinks anything he can do to destabilise Fremantle indirectly benefits the club he supports - West Coast. This is not a Lyon thing, this is a Fremantle thing, and Lyon is an easy man to make "the enemy". So he will run with anything negative about Lyon / Fremantle and gloss over anything that shows the Eagles or Simpson in a bad light.

The only way we stop that happening is to have success on the field, and even that doesn't really stop it, it just means our own supporters can see through their B/S more easily.

 

[Scham]

No. It isn't.

I have to deal with too many of the bastards and the one thing they all have in common is their open contempt for Lyon as a coach. The comment 'I hope they sign him up for 20 years' is across the board because it gives them an easy 8 premiership points every season.

It's easy to see why, after losing 9 derbies in a row and all of those losses happened the same way.

Remember the failure is feedback mantra? It's a loose bit of guff that he lobs around at press conferences only. Lyon does not learn from his previous repeated errors which is why he continues to make them over and over and over again.

I'm sick of losing derbies. I'm sick of losing to Hawthorn. I'm sick of losing regularly. I'm sick of no improvement in the players skills and I'm equally sick of people ignoring reality and trying to justify continuing with a coach who is not going to get us to a premiership. His own words about having no excuse not to have won a flag by 2020 should be enough for his supporters to be questioning what he says because we are clearly not going to compete for a premiership any time soon.

Agree with most of that. But did he really say "no excuse not to have won a flag by 2020" surely not?

 

[imperial_oz]

Agree with most of that. But did he really say "no excuse not to have won a flag by 2020" surely not?

Umm yes he he did, on more than one occasion.

No excuses

Ross Lyon said the long-term extension to his current deal meant there was no excuses for him not to deliver the premiership Freo crave

www.fremantlefc.com.au

Lyon sets the pillars

Ross Lyon says he has no excuse not to deliver Fremantle’s first premiership by 2020.

thewest.com.au

There are a couple of references. There is video footage around of him saying that in different interviews but I have to do a couple of things and can't be arsed doing the searches

 

[Nothing]

No excuses

Ross Lyon said the long-term extension to his current deal meant there was no excuses for him not to deliver the premiership Freo crave

www.fremantlefc.com.au

"We're certainly aiming for a premiership and you don't shy away from that.

"Particularly by the end of this tenure, I'll have no excuse to not have achieved that because we're fully resourced, fully supported and I've certainly got a timeframe where I can make short-term and long-term decisions to get us where we want to be."

Not by 2020, but by the end of his tenure.

"This important decision enables us to take a long-term view across our football operations and how we best support our players for today and for the future," Rosich said.

"Apart from securing the services of our highly regarded and experienced senior coach, it allows the club and Ross to plan with certainty well into the future for our football operations, including the coaching team, players and support staff."

They knew there was rough times coming (but didn't think they would start in 2016).

 

[Scham]

Umm yes he he did, on more than one occasion.

No excuses

Ross Lyon said the long-term extension to his current deal meant there was no excuses for him not to deliver the premiership Freo crave

www.fremantlefc.com.au

Lyon sets the pillars

Ross Lyon says he has no excuse not to deliver Fremantle’s first premiership by 2020.

thewest.com.au

There are a couple of references. There is video footage around of him saying that in different interviews but I have to do a couple of things and can't be arsed doing the searches

Wow, that's crazy! I guess its possible, I mean of course it is but that was a bold but stupid call.

 

[imperial_oz]

No excuses

Ross Lyon said the long-term extension to his current deal meant there was no excuses for him not to deliver the premiership Freo crave

www.fremantlefc.com.au

Not by 2020, but by the end of his tenure.



They knew there was rough times coming (but didn't think they would start in 2016).

Yeah the following quote fooled me

"Ross Lyon says he has no excuse not to deliver Fremantle’s first premiership by 2020 — the final year of his latest contract."

Oddly enough it's the very first sentence of one of the links.

Also, you're quibbling over nothing here. The 'end of his tenure' was 2020, the final year of his contract.

If you want to take it as the end of his time at Freo, he could keep putting it off for 20 years without being held accountable. Had he been sacked last year over the harrassment issue, everybody would then be able to criticise him for not getting the premiership first under your interpretation. Both of those scenarios are absurd.

It was very definitely 2020

 

[Nothing]

Yeah the following quote fooled me

"Ross Lyon says he has no excuse not to deliver Fremantle’s first premiership by 2020 — the final year of his latest contract."

Oddly enough it's the very first sentence of one of the links.

Also, you're quibbling over nothing here. The 'end of his tenure' was 2020, the final year of his contract.

If you want to take it as the end of his time at Freo, he could keep putting it off for 20 years without being held accountable. Had he been sacked last year over the harrassment issue, everybody would then be able to criticise him for not getting the premiership first under your interpretation. Both of those scenarios are absurd.

It was very definitely 2020

Ross chooses his words carefully, almost always.

He is aiming for a premiership and by the end of this tenure, I'll have no excuse to not have achieved that.

He has achieved aiming for a premiership. He aimed in 2016 and missed.

 

[imperial_oz]

Ross chooses his words carefully, almost always.

He is aiming for a premiership and by the end of this tenure, I'll have no excuse to not have achieved that.

He has achieved aiming for a premiership. He aimed in 2016 and missed.

You can't be serious.

He wasn't aiming for a flag in 2016 as we had fallen away so badly in 2015 in the second half of the season.

He was very clear that by 2020 which was the end of his nominated tenure. Suggesting that he hasn't failed yet because he already failed in 2016 makes zero sense. You are trying to find an argument here when it simply does not exist.

 

[Hazelsnuts]

I remember these comments also.
That is why I take a big cup of bullshit juice to numb the noise he rolls out when he talks.
For someone who who has little influence on all things at the club except the coaching department it would seem a pretty dumb comment.
I suppose I can’t stand the rhetoric and excuses that are peddled out - justifiably or not.
8 weeks ago I could see improvement- I still can - in the playing group and the list cohesion, but we always “double down” and go negative when challenged by adversity- I want to take adversity on and expose the list to see where we really are at.

 

[Nothing]

You can't be serious.

He wasn't aiming for a flag in 2016 as we had fallen away so badly in 2015 in the second half of the season.

He was very clear that by 2020 which was the end of his nominated tenure. Suggesting that he hasn't failed yet because he already failed in 2016 makes zero sense. You are trying to find an argument here when it simply does not exist.

Take a breath and enjoy the moment. Those comments were made in March 2016, before we'd lost a game. Our last game was a legless Fyfe loss to Hawthorn. I'm sure that they were aiming for a premiership in March 2016 the list and decisions made at the end of 2015 support that (Pav resigning, DP extension, etc). The fact Freo failed so spectacularly is why half way through 2016 it was all thrown out and full rebuild on the cards.

My comments were merely trying to poke a little fun at the fact that what he actually said was aiming for a premiership, he never said we would have a premiership.

I think Freo planned for one last shot with an aging list in 2016, probably a fair bet after losing a prelim, before embarking on a rebuild through 2017-2020. I think this was why Ross was given the length of contract he was and why I am sanguine over the last couple of seasons. Freo, Ross and the players knew there needed a clean out of the list.

What hasn't helped is the constant failures at list management (through injury or otherwise).

 

[Dale147]

I spent some time with one of the main 6pr protagonists in a social / recreational environment some years ago, and trust me it is not unreasonable to assume that he thinks anything he can do to destabilise Fremantle indirectly benefits the club he supports - West Coast. This is not a Lyon thing, this is a Fremantle thing, and Lyon is an easy man to make "the enemy". So he will run with anything negative about Lyon / Fremantle and gloss over anything that shows the Eagles or Simpson in a bad light.

The only way we stop that happening is to have success on the field, and even that doesn't really stop it, it just means our own supporters can see through their B/S more easily.

That narrows it down to maybe a dozen

 

[dont bowl there]

Us posters constantly reading anti Ross hatred wears thin. That's all you ever post. You only come in after a loss or when Freo are playing poorly and go on the attack.

You can't even justify your opinions.

I've stated mine and you quoted me. Talk about hypocrisy and little man syndrome

Chill man, we are all after the same thing which is success for the Fremantle Football club. It's also wearing thin that anyone who thinks Ross isn't the man to take us forward all of a sudden is a Ross hater. I actually quite like the guy and really like what he has given the club, just personally don't see enough improvement or club cohesion to show that he is the man to take us to a flag.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

Lyon won't be sacked. Lyon was a Rosich "captains call" and sacking him would admit defeat - denting the ego.

If anyone needs to go, it's Rosich first.

Why?

 

[dont bowl there]

I'm chilled

I'm not pro or anti however I was referring to a certain poster just then who constantly bags out Ross and posts almost nothing else.

You in the "lets see what 2020 brings" camp? I'm not fully against that however feel the best person is currently available in Brett Ratten, don't think that will be the case come end of 2020. Surely the club knows if they want Ross or they don't, they have had more than enough time to make that decision. Going into 2020 with no resolution will bring a shit storm onto the club which I don't think we are cohesive enough to deal with. FWIW I am more anti Bell than anti Ross.