List Mgmt. Ross Lyon - Sacked

[PurpleEyes]

And to add to that, dont we do drills at training?...Pretty sure thats skills training..

My guess is, most would think Freo looked skillful in round 1 and in contrast, like junior footballers against West Coast in Round 16.
Which means perceived skills are very much affected by many factors.
I'm not saying that is the answer. I'm sure raw talent has plenty to do with it. And I'm sure the coach is responsible to some level, just to what level I don't know how people can quantify that.

 

[BlueE]

What did he say?
Link??

My assessment is like watching primary V tertiary and I've seen quite a bit of both. Duffield has a widely quoted piece saying we don't train our skills compared to WCE

I'm happy to expand on details not on an open forum but telling you to trust what Duffield is saying, which I believe is related to the types and amount of skill training under pressure that Wet Toast do based on my observations.

 

[Scham]

Turning over 3/4 of the list in 3 years means you need to focus more on structures. There's no point focusing on skills if you don't know where the players are going to (or meant to) run. We need the limited time available with the whole group to work on structure. That is why it is on the players to work on their skills. If this group stays together for 5 years, then the structures look after themselves and you can focus on skills (a bit like the Eagles are doing).

We seem to have our structures pretty well right now evidenced by our domination of the game on Saturday and also for large parts of the last few games and in actual fact most games this year. What’s letting us down is skill errors. Simple skill errors. We keep the oppo in the game and as Duffield said, allow them to settle and regain confidence.
No excuses for that area not to improve massively next year now that we’ve had 4 years of rebuilding the list and we’ve got our structures to a level where they need to be. No excuses.

 

[salim malik]

The coaches not teaching skills claim at training is ridiculous.
They not only train in the am when the watchers are there but the pm as well both indoor and outside.
I noticed that WC were not that skilled yesterday under pressure. Barrass was beyond hopeless with his stuff ups.

 

[wild side]

Same with Sheppard, dropped a very easy chest mark for an afl player in the last quarter!!

 

[PurpleEyes]

As much as I respect Mark Duffield more than many other AFL reporters that really only means I have about high single digits respect out of 100.
The number of times I see him post what the West Coast click baiters want to see has taught me over the years to ignore his opinions.
(I like listening to his comments much more than what I read in his articles ... I suspect he has a professional respect of where his pay cheques come from).

If there are any Freo posters who have seen some of the WC & FR drills themselves who can describe the skills focus, I'd like to hear it.
I do believe that Freo struggle in the slippery conditions more than some clubs. I'm not sure if other coaches make training in the wet a priority or not.

But I still just struggle to think of individual players for WC or FR that are good examples of this skill topic.
Ed Langdon was mentioned ... but I struggle to believe that his kicking efficiency was 70% before joining Freo and then suddenly dropped down to <60%. It was actually <60% for his first 2 seasons and has been +60% in his last 3.
Brad Hill's kicking efficiency was at it's best in; 2015 @HA 70.9%, 2014 @HA 68.4%, 2018 @FR 66.2% ... 2013 @HA 58.5%.
Stephen Hill's was best in 2013. Which is some evidence that when a team is having some success, player's skills are perceived to be better.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

Have been told by a high-ranking member of the Harbour Masters that Ross is starting to lose support from the faction.

 

[BlueE]

The coaches not teaching skills claim at training is ridiculous.
They not only train in the am when the watchers are there but the pm as well both indoor and outside.
I noticed that WC were not that skilled yesterday under pressure. Barrass was beyond hopeless with his stuff ups.

They were in the first quarter. Very good in fact. But things changed with the wet weather and they didn't adapt to that or how Richmond played then.

As I've been saying there is a big difference in the basic skill training we do and the advanced pressure skills training drills they do.

 

[PurpleEyes]

See when I think of WC's skilled players, in their defence I think of McGovern for his intercept marking ... but I don't think that was coached in to him by Simpson's skills training. I think of Hurn's kicking ... again not something I attribute to Simpson's skills training.
Then in comparison, I think of how much better Freo's skills in defence looked when A.Pearce, Hamling, Ryan & Wilson were all playing earlier in the season.
I think of WC's forward line and Kennedy, Darling were both skilled players prior to Simpson. They have added Rioli, Ryan, Cameron who are all obviously naturally talented players ... again, I don't attribute that to Simpson's skill training.
I think of Yeo. He is not a skilled player. He is an extremely good effort based player. Their other mids in Gaff & Shuey were skilled prior to Simpson.

When I look at the details of this skills topic, I struggle to think of really good examples of the dramatic effect that the coach has on individual skills.

Anyways, I just find it an interesting topic and I don't really understand how one can easily measure skill, from year to year, coach to coach.

 

[salim malik]

They were in the first quarter. Very good in fact. But things changed with the wet weather and they didn't adapt to that or how Richmond played then.

As I've been saying there is a big difference in the basic skill training we do and the advanced pressure skills training drills they do.

Have you been to any WC training sessions?
Have you witnessed the afternoon sessions that Freo do?
If not you have no idea what the two club's training methods are.

 

[wild side]

Have been told by a high-ranking member of the Harbour Masters that Ross is starting to lose support from the faction.

That may be true, but there's only about 100 left(exaggerate emoji).
25 years of misery will do that!!

 

[Bring back Drum]

Agree. Ed’s kicking was fine when we drafted him. Not elite but totally adequate. After what is it 5 seasons in a program of no skill emphasis he’s become shocking! That’s what happens.

I’m not sure that is true as I haven’t looked at his numbers, but there is no doubt that Fyfe has improved his field kicking & goal kicking during the Lyon reign.

 

[salim malik]

See when I think of WC's skilled players, in their defence I think of McGovern for his intercept marking ... but I don't think that was coached in to him by Simpson's skills training. I think of Hurn's kicking ... again not something I attribute to Simpson's skills training.
Then in comparison, I think of how much better Freo's skills in defence looked when A.Pearce, Hamling, Ryan & Wilson were all playing earlier in the season.
I think of WC's forward line and Kennedy, Darling were both skilled players prior to Simpson. They have added Rioli, Ryan, Cameron who are all obviously naturally talented players ... again, I don't attribute that to Simpson's skill training.
I think of Yeo. He is not a skilled player. He is an extremely good effort based player. Their other mids in Gaff & Shuey were skilled prior to Simpson.

When I look at the details of this skills topic, I struggle to think of really good examples of the dramatic effect that the coach has on individual skills.

Anyways, I just find it an interesting topic and I don't really understand how one can easily measure skill, from year to year, coach to coach.

WC have a greater spread of more experienced and better players than we have at the minute.
It's logical they would look better skilled than us.
I remember when Freo were on a roll and won the consecutive derbies WC suffered the same skills criticism .

 

[Demons09]

The bigger question is why are players like Blakely going backwards he has turned into a turn over merchant, i don’t remember him being this bad when he first arrived he gets beaten one on one as well but still gets played down back.

 

[Bicco]

Anyways, I just find it an interesting topic and I don't really understand how one can easily measure skill, from year to year, coach to coach.
[/QUOTE
IMO you can't measure skill in the same way you can't measure talent.
But in my life of watching footy,a few key things to look for (when it comes to kicking) are the trajectory of the ball, you're looking for a nice flat, direct kick (no 'loopy' kicks). Speed of getting ball to boot. Mundy did a play early this year to Hogan where he collected the ball, looked and kicked within one or two steps.
Finally being able to do the above at top running speed.
Again, no stats for the above but the ability to execute (and hit the target obviously) are signs of a skilled player. IMHO.

 

[Bring back Drum]

The bigger question is why are players like Blakely going backwards he has turned into a turn over merchant, i don’t remember him being this bad when he first arrived he gets beaten one on one as well but still gets played down back.

His career has been plagued by injury & he didn’t do a preseason this year coming off a massive hamstring & subsequent operation. He’s only played 59 games, no ones fault he just needs continuity.

 

[dont bowl there]

How are we even debating the fact that our skill level and the skill level of almost all Ross Lyon coached teams is below par.

 

[Bring back Drum]

How are we even debating the fact that our skill level and the skill level of almost all Ross Lyon coached teams is below par.

Just out of interest which coach said this?

“I don’t coach skill almost ever. We talk about execution and execution of the basics and we didn’t quite get that right and we need to work on that, we want to work on it — but I don’t really coach skill.
“I think if you put your players in the right set-up, in the right places through pre-season, in the right training drills, they will absorb and develop their decision-making and skill efficiencies without any explicit coaching from the outside.

 

[dont bowl there]

Damien Drum? I don’t know, I’m sure it’s a super successful coach though to back up your man Ross.

 

[Demons09]

His career has been plagued by injury & he didn’t do a preseason this year coming off a massive hamstring & subsequent operation. He’s only played 59 games, no ones fault he just needs continuity.

Yeah you don’t lose your skill because of injury and he looks lost out there.

 

[Bring back Drum]

Damien Drum? I don’t know, I’m sure it’s a super successful coach though to back up your man Ross.

No it was Nathan Buckley in May this year. The bizarre fascination in blaming any coach at AFL level on poor skills on any 1 possession is just that, bizarre.
Training levels can be good or bad from session to session & has very little impact on how the players perform on game day.
To blame the coach on any player missing a set shot at goal or missing a target 25m away is clutching at straws.
If those players dont have any other attributes to enhance the team, they will be moved on & let’s face it they wouldn’t have even got there to begin with.

 

[Bring back Drum]

Yeah you don’t lose your skill because of injury and he looks lost out there.

Perhaps not, but you do from lack of training. He missed 3 months of kicking, contested work & probably 2 months of serious running at the beginning of a season.
Players aren’t robots & need continuity of training.

 

[dont bowl there]

No it was Nathan Buckley in May this year. The bizarre fascination in blaming any coach at AFL level on poor skills on any 1 possession is just that, bizarre.
Training levels can be good or bad from session to session & has very little impact on how the players perform on game day.
To blame the coach on any player missing a set shot at goal or missing a target 25m away is clutching at straws.
If those players dont have any other attributes to enhance the team, they will be moved on & let’s face it they wouldn’t have even got there to begin with.

You really aren’t getting what people are saying about the overall skill level of the team. It’s fine, there really is no point debating it.

 

[SiempreFreo]

What I think I see - and I don't have the footy background of many on here - is that a fair few of our players seem goal-shy. They don't give off that aura of "gimme gimme, I want a shot on goal".

In the ultra-minority and simple sport I play there are pointers who make the the general shots, and shooters who aim to shoot out the opposition boule if it's so close to the target jack that their pointer won't be able to do better. Many pointers won't even try to shoot even when it's clearly the right tactic. You have to want to shoot, attempting it half-heartedly doesn't work. Shooters practice, practice, practice. Is there a parallel here?

 

[Bring back Drum]

You really aren’t getting what people are saying about the overall skill level of the team. It’s fine, there really is no point debating it.

Oh sorry I didn’t realise that ‘people’ are saying that, it must be true.
I’ve given you my opinion & reasons & respect yours, but no one has given any evidence that Lyons training sessions are any different to that of any other AFL team.
Except I read somewhere that a journalist had been to both the Eagles & Dockers training & said the Eagles practised their skills.
The question on that is did he go to every session for that week of both teams? I wouldn’t have thought so as they train at the same time!