Roughie to Box Hill

[Arkadia]

I have a really outrageous suggestion. How about....now wait for it....how about he stays in the goalsquare, for the whole match. Silly I know, but why not just sit him in the square and let him lead all day.

I know this goes against the finely tuned and oiled John Barker forward machine, but i think it is worth a shot.

The most logical response to this question.

I have been screaming for this move in the last 3 games. But who am i, only a club member who goes to the football with his family every week hoping the Hawks improve and show signs we are getting back to our best.

First, if we drop 'Rough' who do we replace him with. We don't have great depth.
Second, clearly he is under instructions to play a role which will benefit the team. Frustrates the hell out of all the supporters, more so yesterday , was plain obvious at the ground. Many times this year i have shouted my lungs out wanting 'Rough' to lead.
He is not enjoying his footy and you can see at the ground with his body language.
This game style that we play will not beat the top teams, it is ok to put forward pressure and try and score from turnovers in our forward 50, but it is a taxing game plan that zaps our energy levels come 4th qrt.

Hopefully in the team meeting the players have Monday mornings 'Rough' could voice his opinion and suggest he play from the goal square and see if this radical plan works. Sad to say from all reports this year, the coach has a tight grip on how the team plays and no alternate views are allowed.

 

[Donnybrook]

Given the forward structure we used yesterday I felt Roughy did OK. In the second half especially he was used as focal point where the ball was directed at him, and the small forwards were to be at his feet. Roughheads main task was to make a contest and get the ball to ground. Given the slow lead up movement we adopted after half time I felt his performance was very team orientated.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I just want to see him go deep, and have a real run at the footy. Hit the marks hard on the lead and kick from 40-50 for about 5 or 6 times a match.

Beats this roaming everywhere bar the forward 50, which seems out of bounds until we get the ball and all run towards the goals

Agreed.

I want to see him given the opportunity to lead at the ball carrier and get a jump at the ball. As we all know when that is the case, he is very hard to beat.

Fact is, he's not being used like that at the moment, and he's been asked to go up the ground, which just doesn't suit a KP of his ilk IMO.

 

[borgo]

He is fast becoming a Mark Viduka equivalent

 

[SHAKESPEARE]

Just imagine all those times Burger has been running towards goal, looks up, and saw Rough actually leading from the goal square. Burgs could hit him at 35m out laces out about 5 or six times a game, as opposed to the current trend of popping it onto Whitecross's head 50m out under pressure.

 

[skilfulgun]

If we are fair dinkum about getting back to the top of the tree - we need to set some examples for intensity & endeavour.

I can accept form slumps, it happens. Every player goes through them at some stage of their career. However, one thing always in a players control is how he attacks the contest and carries himself around the field. Right now Roughead is not showing any hunger for the contest or desire to win the football. He is a player with unique attributes; 100+ kgs, height, and marking ability. He needs to start making use of these!

Some of you may argue that he is playing too far up the ground or out of position, this is beside the point. He is a player among many, he should play any role assigned to him by the coach to the best of his ability. When a player continually holds his spot after a spiralling decline in performance & intensity (regardless of who they are) - other players who get dropped must begin to ask questions.

Do you think St. Kilda had a better midfield option than Nick Dal Santo or a better crumbing forward option than Milne when they dropped those two a couple of years ago? Of course not. The coaching staff identified their efforts as being sub par - and to avoid this filtering through the rest of the ranks they sent them back to the VFL to ensure that the senior playing group knew - NOTHING LESS THAN 100% EFFORT WILL BE ACCEPTED & that most importantly, no-one was exempt from this.

A fit, firing and confident Roughead is essential to us becoming a powerhouse again. This has never been in doubt. Give him a spell in the VFL, let him get back his confidence & hopefully it will inspire some more determined performances out of him. This may mean pain for a few weeks, but in the long run we will be better for it.

 

[butlers hawks]

Maybe we could do a 'smokey' selection ala Jordan Lewis...drop him at selection but swing a late change and bring him in...Lewis hasnt looked back and Roughead may just kick 6 after a wake up call

Seriously though I thought he was pretty good yesturday in conditions that didnt really suit him...layed some good tackles, and competed hard, bringing the ball to ground, where our crumbers were, lets not forget he had two blokes on him for most of the day

 

[Taskmaster]

I think we all need to give rough a break. He has not been able to settle in one position this year, he has been thrown in the Ruck, FF, CHF, CHB. Anyone that has ever played footy before would know this can unsettle you.

I do agree that maybe Rough should play at CHB and get his confidence back, he would kill it down there and its an extra big body to help out. Let Buddy, Junior, Hoops, Ozzie and maybe skip do there thing.

Then in a month see how Rough is travelling and re asses.

The one bloke that I think needs a run in the 2's is Ellis. He is woeful with his disposal and is not getting enough of it for a midfielder.

But lets get behind the Rough instead of bagging him and that goes for anyone of our players out of form. Look at Tommy Murphy, I thought he was excellent yesterday, did a job on Motlop. And as for Stratts, what a gun!!

 

[Watsclarkosmob]

Didn't Rough come of age when he backed up Box Hill game with a game at AAMI agaist Port?? I wouldn't mind seeing him do that again play two games on a weekend see if that sparks him into gear.

 

[Hawksgirl4eva]

he either need's to go to bh or do a croady and go down back those are the only options i see atm.
he has showed us basically ntohing sice he kicked 8 last year!!!!
who do we replace him with that's quite easy really dowler, and b4 people have a go at me i'm not in the i love Dowler club. but i would like to see the kid get a chance, dowler may be doing jack shit for bh but that's what roughy is doing for us.

 

[dogsfoot]

I think Roughie has looked tired and almost uninterested since being thrown into the ruck against North.
Maybe knocked his confidance to the s*#thouse or has injured him.Either way he just doesn`t seem to be enjoying his footy.
The goal square theory sounds like a good idea as long as he can run on the lead, not the plodding lope he has atm.
Love the big ranga and want to see him firing.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

To me Roughead's "form" has far more to do with our structure, or lack of it. Most of our scoring opportunities come from either transition play, which has the forwards running towards goal with the play, or from opposition turnovers created by the forward press.

I don't think Roughead is particularly well suited to either of these, although he pinches a few from turnovers. I don't think Franklin is either for that matter, and the Carlton game aside, we often criticise his "form" also.

My perception is that we create very few traditional forward leading up the ground type scoring moves, which is where both our key forwards excel. I would think this is due mostly to not winning enough clean ball in the middle. We therefore rely on breaking from the back half with the forwards running on, or pressing in the offensive 50.

Until we win more clean ball in the middle and move it quickly, I suspect Roughy and Buddy will both look like they're out of form. Maybe we should play to their strengths a bit more.

This.

Game has changed radically and is happening around Roughie. We are not set up to rely on Roughie or Buddy kicking bags anymore. Kicking goals is now a footrace into space with overlap.

Roughie is having trouble reading the way the ball is coming forward and getting involved and it has killed his confidence and enthusiasm - he looks lost out there. Buddy still gets involved as he has always been able to run with the flow of the ball and get on the end of it by hand and kick 50m bombs.

Roughie needs to be given time to adapt to this new style. It was the same with Willo when he went from a goalsquare forward to a high half forward when Buddy and Rough arrived. People were calling for Willo to be dropped but in the end it made him a much more complete player (who will ever forget the GF goal with Stewie Dew) and us a better side. I for one am happy that Roughie is being challenged as a footballer as he is a one trick pony and has too much ability to remain as such. Take a long term view on this and it will hopefully elevate Rough to the elite category.

 

[Jason Dunstall]

I have a really outrageous suggestion. How about....now wait for it....how about he stays in the goalsquare, for the whole match. Silly I know, but why not just sit him in the square and let him lead all day.

I know this goes against the finely tuned and oiled John Barker forward machine, but i think it is worth a shot.

Interesting comment by the OX on SEN tonight. He said the opposite of the above. Said Roughy should be the lead up CHF, taking the ball in front of him & wheeling onto the left to kick to Buddy in the 50 arc. More 'reliable" around the ground then Buddy.

 

[go hawks!!!]

Interesting comment by the OX on SEN tonight. He said the opposite of the above. Said Roughy should be the lead up CHF, taking the ball in front of him & wheeling onto the left to kick to Buddy in the 50 arc. More 'reliable" around the ground then Buddy.

OX is the biggest clown in the media. He sounds like a child when providing 'comments', he has nothing useful to say.

 

[WillowSF]

Watching Roughead sheepishly roam around the forward line in the first half against Port Adelaide was really sad. Granted the delivery from the mid field was pretty average and the conditions were far from ideal, he didn't really seem to be presenting himself as an option. You'd think with Buddy being out he would demand the ball, but his body language doesn't look very encouraging. He did contest better in the second half. I don't think he should be dropped but he should be sent to backline to get a kick and regain some confidence. He's really at the crossroads in his career. I hope he can turn it around.

 

[tommyk72]

As mentioned, it's more about the setup than anything. This article talks about the isolation of key forwards. Keep the 50 empty with them in it, and let them lead. Even have both roughie and buddy leading out of the goal square in different directions. It's not that bloody hard. Play to your strengths Clarko. If Richmond and St Kilda can do it, why can't we? Are we that incompetent?

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/forward-setup-a-leading-question-20100607-xqq3.html

 

[tommyk72]

As mentioned, it's more about the setup than anything. This article talks about the isolation of key forwards. Keep the 50 empty with them in it, and let them lead. Even have both roughie and buddy leading out of the goal square in different directions. It's not that bloody hard. Play to your strengths Clarko. If Richmond and St Kilda can do it, why can't we? Are we that incompetent?

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/forward-setup-a-leading-question-20100607-xqq3.html

he hottest player on the ground at the time, Jack Riewoldt, was basically left alone in the forward line save for a rotation of opponents. First it was Jason Blake, then, when the Tiger forward saw him off, it was Sam Fisher. Few other Richmond forwards ventured near, save for Troy Simmonds who was there to ensure St Kilda could not just double-team his teammate. But even he tried to go the other way when the ball came Riewoldt's way.
At the other end St Kilda was using Stephen Milne in a similar but different way. He, too, was isolated and made the go-to guy after the tall forwards Justin Koschitzke and Rhys Stanley had had limited impact.

 

[PottSie2]

Tired of all the excuses for Roughy, yet when anyone mentions Dowler, it's solely his own fault.

Different rules for different players.

 

[noosa hawk mad]

I actually thought he played his role quite well today.

Never went for a mark in the wet greasy conditions, always brought the ball to ground.

Put on a good tackle resulting in a goal as well.

He will be better once his partner in crime is back next week.

the Coach was happy with his out put he had a hand in 3 goals dropping Roughead want happen

 

[lethalselbow]

OX is the biggest clown in the media. He sounds like a child when providing 'comments', he has nothing useful to say.

As opposed to your knowledgeable self.

I thought Ox's comments on Roughead playing CHF and leaving the 50m to Buddy were worthwhile. He's quite an insightful commentator and adds a touch of humour making him a real gem.

 

[THEHIGHFLYINGHAWKER]

can't polish a **** which he is clearly playing like at the moment, so give him a spell at the mustangs and let him gain back some confidence! needs a swift kick up the backside.

 

[Jason Dunstall]

OX is the biggest clown in the media. He sounds like a child when providing 'comments', he has nothing useful to say.[/quot

Hmmmm.

And your area of expertise is? As always we don't have to agree with everything commentaters say, but he did play a bit, & did a good job of it, unlike the Tim Lanes of the world.

So while I don't agree with every thing he says, if he has a comment re forward line structures etc, I for one, am more likely to listen to his opinion then that of the usual internet nobodies. (like myself)

 

[cyrilhawk33]

I still think roughy needs to go to the defence and play on the opppsition big foward. Having 2 big guys in the foward line expecially with roughys abilities is a waste. The way the game is going we need foward pressure. roughy doesnt really provide it as well as we would like. going to defence makes him accountable plus any time he has pushed back he looks awsome. I would really like to see him play on tippet this week, this would allow gilham and stratton more freedom to create as well.buddy should be left to play 1 out in the foward line and let him lead, when hes jumping and leading, almost all defenders cant contain him. add in cyril and osbourne and hooper when he gets back and thats all we need in the foward line. when buddy is injured/suspended or having a bad day sure put roughy up foward, could be used as great swing man. I really believe roughy can be an all aus FB or CHB, he needs to be put there right away because it just makes our team so much better

 

[cs61]

He'll be right, he's a quality player, a bit out form, playing a very hard position with lots of scrutiny on him.

Glad he's with us, and its a good problem to have, with Franklin next to him.

It wasn't that long ago he kicked a bag against West Coast, and played a blinder.

To me he looks like he's carrying an injury, and playing hurt. Looks like he's favouring a knee and not charging in, and has lost his spring. So he's doing it tough, but I resent any implications that he's dis-interested or not trying. That's rubbish.

 

[Henry Jr]

The table below shows our forward setup efficiency over the past 5 weeks.

It is based on the number of Inside 50's needed per Scoring Shot. Obviously the less Inside 50's per Scoring Shot the better the efficiency...