Round 1 teams - Freo vs Port [MEGATHREADS SUCK]

[Clems Knee]

I'd say consistency is the problem for these guys. MDB, Pearce, Suban and clancee are the perennially criticised players on our list, but at their best, they are best 22. They're just never at their best consistently enough.

I remember games where MDB was thrown in the middle as an inside ball winner and he chopped. Supposedly he's fitter this year, and if he's being given crowley's role, I can see him being good value at stoppages. Clancee's 2013 season was exceptional - undoubtedly best 22. He's struggled with injury since then, but by the sounds of things he should be back to 100% fitness.

Danyle can give me the shits, no doubt, but he's also proved himself a match winner such as in rd. 1 last year, the 2nd derby and against Essendon he played exceptionally well. Let's not forget his most important role in the team is as a foil for hill.

Finally Suban, who we've all been waiting to "break out". It's true he does some nice things, but then disappears for half a game. Whether this is a fitness issue (which I doubt considering he's up there with some of our best runners, I think) or something else, I don't know.

The point is these four players just need more consistency. The only way they'll get it is playing more afl games. Danyle may be the one exception here, in that he's played the most consecutive games of anybody and I haven't seen too much improvement. I still think he's likely to have a bigger impact on a game than crozier or Sheridan, who are still not there yet.

Better the devil you know.

I don't see players in their seventh season suddenly developing consistency. They're inconsistent because they're not that good.

I actually agree with both of these posts. Mostly. Even though they disagree. De Boer, Pearce, Suban and Clancee are both worth persisting with, and worth improving upon.

 

[toenail11]

I think people have forgotten how good of a footballer Clancee is...When fit is levels above Suban and Deboer IMO.Only 24 with 2 injury plagued seasons behind him

 

[clogged]

I think that normally for Lyon, the preseason is the determiner for the rest of the season. As he would say the best 22 pick themselves. As you say, any changes in the season tend to be forced due to injury.

This year, the best 22 were in the process of picking themselves, and then the minor injuries came along. So Crozier, Taberner, Mzungu, Dawson, Silvagni and even Crowley may come back into Lyon's preferred team.

I don't see the majority of those players helping the side win a premiership in 2015. It's just more of the same as the past few years. Good, not good enough. There are classier sides with high scoring ability who are just as adept defensively as Freo, and they will win it.

 

[Lost_Deputy]

Ummm why are guys freaking out now and not months ago? What did u expect this season was gonna look like?
Clancee is in now instead of Crowls and we have Blakely, Duffy, Croz, Tabs and Sherro pushing in. RTB said if we have a few losses then expect to see more kids earlier but no reason to expect poor results out of our squad.
This squad had Cats on the ropes and touched up Hawks late last year. We had Port but screwed it carrying a lost Tabs and a down Mayne. Bit puzzled by all this two days out from bounce down

 

[clogged]

Ummm why are guys freaking out now and not months ago? What did u expect this season was gonna look like?
Clancee is in now instead of Crowls and we have Blakely, Duffy, Croz, Tabs and Sherro pushing in. RTB said if we have a few losses then expect to see more kids earlier but no reason to expect poor results out of our squad.
This squad had Cats on the ropes and touched up Hawks late last year. We had Port but screwed it carrying a lost Tabs and a down Mayne. Bit puzzled by all this two days out from bounce down

The rest of the competition has gotten better. Hawthorn have added O'Rourke and Frawley. Sydney are giving Heeney a run. Geelong have added Clark and Cockatoo. Port have added Ryder. North have added Higgins and Waite. Not a single player in this round 1 lineup has been drafted in the past three years.

Freo is essentially playing the same team that has been available since the end of 2012. This is the most risk averse lineup Lyon could have possibly played.

 

[Bicco]

How many players are making their debut in the Port team? We're going up against a top 4 team. This ain't the time for kids to be 'given a run'.

 

[Clems Knee]

I don't see the majority of those players helping the side win a premiership in 2015. It's just more of the same as the past few years. Good, not good enough. There are classier sides with high scoring ability who are just as adept defensively as Freo, and they will win it.

So you accept my reasoning regarding Lyon's preferred 22 this year?

I actually think Taberner and Crozier have the greatest potential of the players I listed to have a big effect on the team's performance this year. Plus Mzungu for consistency. I think we are below Hawthorn, Sydney and possibly North Melbourne when the pointy end of the season comes around. But who knows? you generally tend towards the pessimistic side,

 

[clogged]

How many players are making their debut in the Port team? We're going up against a top 4 team. This ain't the time for kids to be 'given a run'.

Does Freo persist with De Boer or give Duffy a run knowing he can score and ceiling is higher? Does the team persist with Danyle Pearce despite Pearce's career long history at failing in finals, or does it give Crozier his role and allow him to settle into something that he can deliver in at the end of the season?

It's not about debutants, it's about looking at what didn't work last year, and changing something that might help the side score when it is behind, or capitalise when it is on top.

 

[Lost_Deputy]

The rest of the competition has gotten better. Hawthorn have added O'Rourke and Frawley. Sydney are giving Heeney a run. Geelong have added Clark and Cockatoo. Port have added Ryder. North have added Higgins and Waite. Not a single player in this round 1 lineup has been drafted in the past three years.

Freo is essentially playing the same team that has been available since the end of 2012. This is the most risk averse lineup Lyon could have possibly played.

Go through those teams and stack their potential improvements against ours. Against an improving Fyfe, a returned and firing Macca, 2013 Mayne, a fit Walters, Ibbo back to form, Tabs to go another level. Not really huge differences.
I struggle to see how you so comfortably assume that those teams you mentioned are 100% going to improve and we won't because we didn't import.
Freo put stock in retaining players and it's been going pretty well.

 

[clogged]

So you accept my reasoning regarding Lyon's preferred 22 this year?

I actually think Taberner and Crozier have the greatest potential of the players I listed to have a big effect on the team's performance this year. Plus Mzungu for consistency. I think we are below Hawthorn, Sydney and possibly North Melbourne when the pointy end of the season comes around. But who knows? you generally tend towards the pessimistic side,

I think his preferred 22 is explained here:

It is a test of your depth too isn’t it? How do you rate your 2015 depth?

I never really understand depth. It gets bandied about a bit . I know that the best indicator of success is having your best players available consistently. Everyone bangs on about depth but as soon as you get injuries it becomes ‘well we haven’t got him playing’. We are no different. You need your best players out there.

The only players unavailable are Mzungu, Dawson, Crowley and Taberner. Only one of them changes the nature of the side in any major way (Taberner). The rest replace like for likes in the team.

This is as close to Lyon's ideal best 22 as possible. Personnel may change, nature of the way the team plays won't.

 

[clogged]

Go through those teams and stack their potential improvements against ours. Against an improving Fyfe, a returned and firing Macca, 2013 Mayne, a fit Walters, Ibbo back to form, Tabs to go another level. Not really huge differences.
I struggle to see how you so comfortably assume that those teams you mentioned are 100% going to improve and we won't because we didn't import.
Freo put stock in retaining players and it's been going pretty well.

So you're saying that only Fremantle players will improve?

Who said there needs to be imports? I want change. This side has barely changed in three years. No other side has changed as little. Not even the back to back premiers aiming for three in the row have stayed as similar.

 

[Lost_Deputy]

So you're saying that only Fremantle players will improve?

Who said there needs to be imports? I want change. This side has barely changed in three years. No other side has changed as little.

Nope. Just saying that every team has its pros and cons. If you stack us against the top clubs we are right there.
Urgh this thread is toxic so close to start of our season. No need to have our heads in the sand but also this could have been done earlier.

Hope you enjoy yourself

 

[Clems Knee]

I think his preferred 22 is explained here:



The only players unavailable are Mzungu, Dawson, Crowley and Taberner. Only one of them changes the nature of the side in any major way (Taberner). The rest replace like for likes in the team.

This is as close to Lyon's ideal best as possible. Personnel may change, nature of the way the team does won't.

"You need your best players out there."

I reckon Lyon thinks his best players are Fyfe, Sandilands, Mundy, Pavlich, Ballantyne, Johnson, McPharlin, Hill, Walters, Barlow and maybe Neale and Sutcliffe. That's who he was talking about. The rest are like for likes. And those players change from year to year. When Clancee lost his fat arse, he became a best 22 player. When he was injured preseason 2013 and got his arse back, he lost his starting position. He might have got it back.

 

[Kenny_01]

I'm prepared to back the match committee in. While most of us (myself included) enjoy watching the highly skillful players like Crozier in the team, the coaching staff would have their reasons. Maybe he is injured, maybe he isn't getting to as many contests as required, maybe he isn't adhering to structures.

I think there is no one at the club that wants Crozier to succeed more than Ross. Lyon knows his attributes and he is challenging Crozier to make the position his own. So he cannot be dropped. Like Sutcliffe and Neale are entrenched in the side, he wants Crozier to take the same opportunity with both hands.

As for the game, De Boer has actually done very good tagging jobs in the past against bigger bodied midfielders. He has shut down Jobe Watson in the past. I think we will try to shut down Boak and Gray and then try overpower their other midfielders with our run.

The coaching staff have a game plan and they are selecting the players they think can best help them win. It's the first game of the season and Port are favourites to challenge Hawthorn. Their run overpowered us last season so let's just wait and see what happens this time around before we start criticizing selection decisions.

We all want to see Crozier do well and his time will come. He still might even play this week. Anyway, I am pumped to see what we dish up on Sunday.

 

[Lach72]

The issue we have is that we're negative enough already. Suban and Clancee at least have penetrating kicks.

De Boer does not.

One tagger, which seems to be Clancee, is enough.

Back Blakely in. He's creative by hand and foot and accumulates the ball.

 

[apuchar]

Nope. Just saying that every team has its pros and cons. If you stack us against the top clubs we are right there.
Urgh this thread is toxic so close to start of our season. No need to have our heads in the sand but also this could have been done earlier.

Hope you enjoy yourself

Free speech is toxic?
Mick Malthouse said he found it hard to see how Carlton would lose a game this year and they lost round 1. These guy are more knowlegable than us but they are not all knowing. Get over yourselves.

 

[Kenny_01]

The issue we have is that we're negative enough already. Suban and Clancee at least have penetrating kicks.

De Boer does not.

One tagger, which seems to be Clancee, is enough.

Back Blakely in. He's creative by hand and foot and accumulates the ball.

I think Suban can be an offensive weapon this season, especially at stoppages.

I think De Boer can do a job. He will play like his life is on it. Having said that, will not be suprised if he is a late withdrawal.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

Far out this thread should change to MELTDOWN. Crozier has had one good intra club game and posters crying about him not getting a gig. Ross would be looking at match ups and roles and deBoer may have a specific job to do. He is the fitest he has ever been. Suban and Clancee and both extreamly fit this season. Suban and deBoer could run out 4 quarters easily. They are role players and not match winners.

I really want Crozier to get games to improve and hope he over takes deBoer, Suban and Clancee soon. He will need to play to improve but Ross needs some footsoldiers for this match.

 

[Steinfreo]

Da ****? Our forward line has been our biggest problem for ages now.

Hmmm We have 3 forwards in the top 20 in my opinion. I think the slowness/lack of clearances through the middle concerns me at times more than our forward line. IF Mayne can get back to form we have like 4 ex/current 'all Australian list of 40 squad' members in our forward line.

 

[Taylor]

Our forward line looks average because our flankers are picking up the slack from our pedestrian midfield.

We have one genuinely quick player in the side and he isn't a mid, Ballantyne and two quick burst players in Pearce and Hill. Our run and carry is alright but we have two/three gun kicks in the side and again one of them is a forward.

Teams literally wipe out half of our elite ball use and line breaking by taking Hill. Half.

 

[Square Peg]

Teams literally wipe out half of our elite ball use and line breaking by taking Hill. Half.

Yes. Unfortunately has been true for the last few years and likely to be true again this year. Unless Sheridan grows a pair and takes the game on (which is why I am glad to see him playing and I hope to god he gets a full game) or Crozier gets fit enough to play midfield.

 

[Patty_Moz]

I said in another thread that I thought Crowleys exclusion meant we had a chance to try something different however I don't think this team reflects that. It seems we will try the same approach with multiple options to try and fill Crowleys role, which I don't like/ think will work.

My issue with this team is that it is basically the same team that couldn't win the flag over the past couple of seasons and won't win it this year without some changes.

In saying all that I don't like the idea of taking in too many underdone players so I think that had to be factored in and maybe Croz had the biggest question mark on his head. So in the end for me the best team was probably selected for this round. I want some changes as the season progresses (even next round) but for round 1 this feels 'about' right.

 

[Nothing]

Off to the TAB - Freo for the spoon. This team wont beat anyone. All hacks well past their used by date (at age 24). I just hope that we can at least get a win or two for the year.

I'm off to the tallest building.

 

[Taylor]

I think Port have more stars than us but their remaining players aren't as good so turning the match into their middle 10 v our middle ten actually works out better for us.

 

[Steinfreo]

I just hate how our top ups have been complete flops. Lets say Gumby kicked 6 in a nab game this year and Colin was the new more attacking nasty Crowley. FML. We wouldnt be stressing about Apeness, Sheridan, Blakey etc. Shoulda woulda couldas I guess.