Review Round 13, 2023 - Hawthorn vs. Brisbane Lions

[SizeMatters]

Agree, one of our most disappointing losses in a long time, really showed up what everyone knows is our major weakness, ie. combatting run and gun, overlap handball receive, fast play on footy. It really is a worry, I so thought we were past that.

teams who can demonstrate that overlap game do so because they have the inside dominance. If we win the inside battle the ball is moving forward for us and we have games on our terms.

It just shows that we have no real other options besides win the contested game... we have no plan B. Opposition know this and it's a big reason why we are shit in finals when pressure is usually much much higher than home and away season.

We are a good home and away (mostly home now... ) team but we aren't a finals team.

 

[Sproj]

At the ground, they kept flashing up on the screen the disposals, Hawthorn had 100 more than the Lions AND better disposal efficiency, that is appalling.

 

[Chezz]

On top of that Robertson only being given 67% ToG with 56% ToG in the 3rd was mins boggling. He was one of our best in the first half and for that Fages casts him to the bench while we are getting slaughtered in the middle?

Looking at the stats on that too, I know Prior had a terrible day, but he had 39% ToG in the 3rd q. Wtf are our coaches doing? Why are you picking players then sitting then on the bench for almost an entire quarter. That is ridiculous. It's no wonder we were completely gassed in the third, coaches just decided that we didn't need to rotate our players.

Couldn’t agree more on these points here. Robertson was our best player along with Dunkley in the first half. So his reward was to spend the first half of the third quarter on the bench while we were getting smashed in there.

 

[Thomasno]

Zac Bailey

33

Zac Bailey

Age

25

Ht

182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.7

3star

K

6.9

3star

HB

5.9

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.9

3star

D

12.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

5.6

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.4

3star

CL

0.7

3star

D

13.4

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.8

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.8

5star

CL

0.6

3star

is indicative of our team at the moment.

The easy option of kicking the ball of the ground rather than putting your head over it & attempting to pick it up appears to be acceptable. Far too often our players take the easy & weak option - defensive running etc. Standards need to be player driven, until this changes we just make up the numbers.

This is beyond the obvious selection issues. Clear distinct lack of leadership at a couple of levels.

That was the f*cking turning point too, it pissed me off so much in the game. We come out and kick the first goal of the third, have all the momentum, then Bailey elects for a hack kick off the deck of a bouncing ball (which he missed) when he easily could’ve bent down and grab it. Hawks collect it a few seconds later instead, goal down the other end and we fell apart and lost all our momentum.

 

[Thomasno]

We need Ross Lyon. What do you think Viceregal ?

I would quite literally stop watching if we’d hired Ross. I don’t care what results he gets, the man is almost trying to single handedly ruin the game, teams he coach are just so unbelievably boring to watch that what’s the point.

 

[Thomasno]

All true in relation to Gardiner. Fagan dropped a desperate, hard at it, skilled and in form Lester, so he could give a game to an out of form Gardiner, who is a dour defender at best. Gardiner is a pet, pure and simple.

I’m getting sick of this now. Gardiner’s ceiling and body of work is far better than Lester’s, who has been a VFL recruit for much of his career.

Granted Lester has been playing very well this year, but if you seriously believe he would have been the difference yesterday I have a bridge to sell you.

We had far, far more problems than Gardiner playing a poor second half of footy, such as, I don’t know, almost the entire rest of the team also playing a poor second half of footy.

 

[Sanchez365]

newcombe didn’t do much in the first half. It was only in the third he did much

Rayner has been attending the first centre bounce of quarters then forward for the rest of the game for a while now

Tagging Newcombe in the last was a poor decision IMO. We needed to win the game not go all defensive

He's had 15 touches to half time so he wasn't doing nothing. I was also not suggesting that we moved someone onto him preemptively but was more a point on our coaching staff being far too slow to react when theu need too.

When the hawks kicked 2 goals in a row from center bounces in the third and we were still in front, we should have gone big around the ball to just try and cause repeat stoppages and slowly move it forward. Waiting until they kicked another 2 goals to end the quarter and deciding in the fourth when we were behind was the time to put the defensive clamps in was poor coaching.

I have seen Rayner attend some center bounces, not sure I have seen a pattern of him attending the first one in a match or at quarters like you mention, and I normally keep my eyes on that as i thought it set the tone for who our core midfield group that week would be.

 

[RoyBoy17]

I’m getting sick of this now. Gardiner’s ceiling and body of work is far better than Lester’s, who has been a VFL recruit for much of his career.

Granted Lester has been playing very well this year, but if you seriously believe he would have been the difference yesterday I have a bridge to sell you.

We had far, far more problems than Gardiner playing a poor second half of footy, such as, I don’t know, almost the entire rest of the team also playing a poor second half of footy.

Gardiner is not AFL standard atm. From his last two games I’m not sure how he keeps his spot. Not the reason we lost but he still shouldn’t be in the team. He’s been very poor for a long time now.

As you say Lester was performing his role. Should of stuck with him.

Gardiner had to come in against the crows but he was very average in that game. He just exacerbates our weaknesses in the backline. I would say Lester is a better mark, kick and better ground ball player. He’s also not as banged up.

 

[Sproj]

Bailey got faked out easily two plays in a row when he should have made a tackle and gave up because he got done instead of putting in a second effort and resulted in a goal. We had way too many passengers yesterday, just stood and watched instead of getting in there to help out.

I'm still livid about Prior. Zero heart whatsoever yesterday. I was a massive fan but that lack of effort was just inexcusable.

 

[alscotoz2]

 

[M Malice]

You Charlatan.

 

[Nathan Barley]

He's had 15 touches to half time so he wasn't doing nothing. I was also not suggesting that we moved someone onto him preemptively but was more a point on our coaching staff being far too slow to react when theu need too.

When the hawks kicked 2 goals in a row from center bounces in the third and we were still in front, we should have gone big around the ball to just try and cause repeat stoppages and slowly move it forward. Waiting until they kicked another 2 goals to end the quarter and deciding in the fourth when we were behind was the time to put the defensive clamps in was poor coaching.

I have seen Rayner attend some center bounces, not sure I have seen a pattern of him attending the first one in a match or at quarters like you mention, and I normally keep my eyes on that as i thought it set the tone for who our core midfield group that week would be.

Coaches don’t have the ability to make those moves during quarters

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

teams who can demonstrate that overlap game do so because they have the inside dominance. If we win the inside battle the ball is moving forward for us and we have games on our terms.

It just shows that we have no real other options besides win the contested game... we have no plan B. Opposition know this and it's a big reason why we are s**t in finals when pressure is usually much much higher than home and away season.

We are a good home and away (mostly home now... ) team but we aren't a finals team.

The trouble is that when we win the contested possession we simply send it to the next contest
Eventually the opponent gets the opportunity and keeps possession
Same ship we had three years ago
Go figure,trust the system they keep saying,that was and is the hardest thing to swallow as a supporter
Nfi

 

[M Malice]

Kane Cornes put out there what most on here are thinking >

 

[maggotman]

He didn't move for almost a minute after the tackle. He was completely out.

I saw the whole thing and couldn't understand why nobody else thought it was that bad at the ground. People were actually laughing about it. Disgusting. To be honest I thought the worst at that point. Either dead or quadriplegic the way he was lying there and not moving for want seemed like 1-2 minutes. Reckon his neck is very sore today. Maybe I'm just really soft? I don't know.

 

[Tom14]

I saw the whole thing and couldn't understand why nobody else thought it was that bad at the ground. People were actually laughing about it. Disgusting. To be honest I thought the worst at that point. Either dead or quadriplegic the way he was lying there and not moving for want seemed like 1-2 minutes. Reckon his neck is very sore today. Maybe I'm just really soft? I don't know.

Some hawks fans were booing when he was still walking off - I assume because it took ages and they could have put him on the cart but wasn't a great look.

 

[BuntonRules]

I’m getting sick of this now. Gardiner’s ceiling and body of work is far better than Lester’s, who has been a VFL recruit for much of his career.

Granted Lester has been playing very well this year, but if you seriously believe he would have been the difference yesterday I have a bridge to sell you.

We had far, far more problems than Gardiner playing a poor second half of footy, such as, I don’t know, almost the entire rest of the team also playing a poor second half of footy.

Gardiner has not produced that level for 2 years now. Too many injuries. Even then he was purely a lock down defender. Lester is better physically, and plays far more in the modern style - linking up and providing drive. I would even play Joyce before Gardiner. Apart from a few clangers - mainly inexperience, and Gardiner makes as many - can intercept mark and link up.

TBH I was gobsmacked when he got the contract extension he did. The writing has been on the wall for a while now.

 

[Gadzorks]

Kane Cornes put out there what most on here are thinking >

'Hawks have to be careful not to handball to much because good sides will squeeze them and pressure them.'

 

[Nuggo]

The way which Hawthorn put on the switch across the ground whereby they had a player then the Hawks worked hard so they had a ladder style of players. They kept switching from side to side with ease.

Our kicking was poor. Gunston kicking and easy kick straight to a Hawthorn player was a low light.

 

[Sanchez365]

Coaches don’t have the ability to make those moves during quarters

You have to be joking? A coach can't make a call to an assistant on the bench and tell them to put berry in the middle? This could be the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.

 

[bungalow_bill]

All true in relation to Gardiner. Fagan dropped a desperate, hard at it, skilled and in form Lester, so he could give a game to an out of form Gardiner, who is a dour defender at best. Gardiner is a pet, pure and simple.

I wouldn't call Lester skilled but he's hard at it and the sort of blue collar player our team needs to be correctly balanced. A flag team needs junk yard dogs.

 

[Nathan Barley]

You have to be joking? A coach can't make a call to an assistant on the bench and tell them to put berry in the middle? This could be the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.

Modern footy isn’t that simple with rotations and managing minutes

Fagan has said it multiple times. The onus is on the on field leaders


Plus examples like Berry on Oliver, that was discussed prior to the game and we already had Dev on him. It wasnt a significant change in structure

Plus if you changed your game plan every time a player had a purple patch then you’re going to be all over the place

and in hindsight moving Berry onto him made bugger all difference.

In fact some of our best play came in the third

We hardly looked like scoring in the last

 

[buttermuffs]

Agree, one of our most disappointing losses in a long time, really showed up what everyone knows is our major weakness, ie. combatting run and gun, overlap handball receive, fast play on footy. It really is a worry, I so thought we were past that.

Most disappointing loss since round one 2023z


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[M Malice]

Most disappointing loss since round one 2023z


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

That makes it even sadder and more worrying.

 

[bato]

I wouldn't call Lester skilled but he's hard at it and the sort of blue collar player our team needs to be correctly balanced. A flag team needs junk yard dogs.

The thing with Lester is that he moves around the ground better than Gardiner.

With all due respect to Darcy, who’s had a good career, he runs around as if he’s got 10kg weights attached to him. Just does not look like an elite athlete.