Review Round 13, 2023 - Hawthorn vs. Brisbane Lions

[buttermuffs]

Some hawks fans were booing when he was still walking off - I assume because it took ages and they could have put him on the cart but wasn't a great look.

There were quite a bit of cheers when he got up and then more when he reached the the lions cheer squad but I think many just got frustrated he didn’t just sit on the cart and go down the tunnel. I wouldn’t say the boos were at Clugs but more at the medical staff and the game taking a long time to resume.

 

[Sanchez365]

Modern footy isn’t that simple with rotations and managing minutes

Fagan has said it multiple times. The onus is on the on field leaders


Plus examples like Berry on Oliver, that was discussed prior to the game and we already had Dev on him. It wasnt a significant change in structure

Plus if you changed your game plan every time a player had a purple patch then you’re going to be all over the place

and in hindsight moving Berry onto him made bugger all difference.

In fact some of our best play came in the third

We hardly looked like scoring in the last

Well what ever happened in the third around managing minutes was obviously flawed when you have Prior off the ground for 60% of the quarter and dev off for 47% of it.

I also thought that moving berry into the middle in the last stopped their easy transition out of the center for at least the first half of the quarter before it completely fell apart.

I think the coaches box in general have a tendency to back their players in rather then make wholesale changes. But the fact we haven't seemed to develop any kind of plan around how to deal with teams getting a run on seems like a concern to me. On field leaders if they are the ones that have to make the change should be able to say, okay let's get XYZ in the middle because we are getting ****ing creamed here.

It's a fundamental problem our team has that no one is able to stand up and take control of a game. As great as Neale is, he isn't close. Dunkley is our best bet as as lead by example guy and he does it with defensive intensity but he is not that damaging by foot. I love what he brings and he has a valuable place in our midfield but he looks like he's going to miss his boot sometimes when he kicks it.

McCluggage and Berry don't seem to have the demeanor to step up and do that role either, who were supposed to be our next generation of leaders coming through. The closest we have is Ashcroft and it's unreasonable to expect him to transform our midfield in his first season. Bailey should go back and take a look at some of Ashcroft efforts getting his hands dirty and going for the ball rather then some bullshit toepoke efforts he put in on the weekend. Getting shown up badly by a first year player right now.

 

[3KZ is Football]

The thing with Lester is that he moves around the ground better than Gardiner.

With all due respect to Darcy, who’s had a good career, he runs around as if he’s got 10kg weights attached to him. Just does not look like an elite athlete.

… and when he is caught out of position he gives away an obligatory free kick in front of goals.

 

[Royboy1961]

I was fortunate to be able to go to the game so I will make the following comment: The lions were in the game at half time and looked a million dollars when they kicked the last three goals of the 2nd quarter in quick time. I was expecting them to stretch out the lead in the third but as everyone already knows this was not to be. I couldn’t quite believe they could play that badly but the game did remind me of a similar capitulation they had at the MCG against Richmond when they squandered huge lead after half time. The two games had similarities in that the game was won on the outside. Hawthorn won the possession count by a huge margin but as everyone knows the Lions are not a high possession team and win by being more efficient with the ball. What the Hawks did effectively was take the ball out to the opposite wing and run the ball into the forward line with very little pressure. They basically exposed our main weakness which is lack of defensive pressure out of the backline. Another interesting observation is that Sicily was allowed to play on his own especially in the first half without an opposition player and ended up being one of the best on ground. We were basically outcoached. The other areas of concern was the midfield which although competitive were ineffective as we just didn’t run the ball out of the stoppages well enough. Forget about the stats the midfield is just not as good as it was a couple years ago. Dunkley is fabulous but I wonder if he should play some more game time in the forward line and kick a few more goals? Our best midfield combination was when Lyon and Neale played together and we dominated the centre clearances. Lyons is better by foot and hardly wastes a disposal. My other area of concern is the form of Gunston as he is poor defensively and is not kicking goals I think this experiment is over and we need to give Lohman a crack. Another observation was that McInernay was not that effective as a ruckman I would consider bringing Fort in as a sub to give the Big Mac a rest. Now I am a Prior fan as he has always been an effective player. But yesterday he played the worst game of his AFL career. I reckon he was just trying too hard he was ineffective by foot, made changers and had no impact on the game. Do they drop him or give him the benefit of the doubt an allow him to play another week. Another disappointing player was Rich who looks too slow for the AFL now two or three years ago,he was in all Australian form but I am afraid time has caught up with him. Coleman looked fabulous as his replacement in the last quarter and made things happen from the half bacKline. We have super smart coaches who will break down this game . We have half a year to work out a better game plan and work out our best team. I hope Gunston and Rich start to play better but at the moment they should find some form in the reserves. We need to start to experiment with our team a bit more and start winning by bigger margins. We should change atleast 4 players from this team but this won’t happen.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Well what ever happened in the third around managing minutes was obviously flawed when you have Prior off the ground for 60% of the quarter and dev off for 47% of it.

I also thought that moving berry into the middle in the last stopped their easy transition out of the center for at least the first half of the quarter before it completely fell apart.

I think the coaches box in general have a tendency to back their players in rather then make wholesale changes. But the fact we haven't seemed to develop any kind of plan around how to deal with teams getting a run on seems like a concern to me. On field leaders if they are the ones that have to make the change should be able to say, okay let's get XYZ in the middle because we are getting ******* creamed here.

It's a fundamental problem our team has that no one is able to stand up and take control of a game. As great as Neale is, he isn't close. Dunkley is our best bet as as lead by example guy and he does it with defensive intensity but he is not that damaging by foot. I love what he brings and he has a valuable place in our midfield but he looks like he's going to miss his boot sometimes when he kicks it.

McCluggage and Berry don't seem to have the demeanor to step up and do that role either, who were supposed to be our next generation of leaders coming through. The closest we have is Ashcroft and it's unreasonable to expect him to transform our midfield in his first season. Bailey should go back and take a look at some of Ashcroft efforts getting his hands dirty and going for the ball rather then some bullshit toepoke efforts he put in on the weekend. Getting shown up badly by a first year player right now.

we kicked the last 3 of the second and looked like running away with the game, did Mitchell make changes?

Theres a reason why coaches aren’t too reactionary. Sometimes you’re best bet is to stick with your guns

 

[Squizz89]

Sicily off to the tribunal. Still hard to believe they ended up with the free kick from that incident.

 

[Tom14]

Sicily off to the tribunal. Still hard to believe they ended up with the free kick from that incident.

My minor defence for the umpires - I was sitting reasonably close to where it happened (admittedly up on level 2) and it looked like holding the ball to me as the other hawks player blocked the sling from view.

 

[buttermuffs]

My minor defence for the umpires - I was sitting reasonably close to where it happened (admittedly up on level 2) and it looked like holding the ball to me as the other hawks player blocked the sling from view.

From the main broadcast perspective which was basically the umpire’s perspective as well Brockman basically fully blocked the end of the sling so it’s not hard to see the umpire miss it. Can only call was you see unfortunately.


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[Tom14]

From the main broadcast perspective which was basically the umpire’s perspective as well Brockman basically fully blocked the end of the sling so it’s not hard to see the umpire miss it. Can only call was you see unfortunately.


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Yeah, my view was probably smack in the middle between the broadcast view and the reverse angle where you could actually see it - I had no clue what happened until I saw Hugh down 10-15 seconds after play had moved on.

 

[Elixuh]

Sicily off to the tribunal. Still hard to believe they ended up with the free kick from that incident.

If you pin an arm in a tackle and do the slinging motion that Sicily did it’s goodnight.

 

[Tom14]

If you pin an arm in a tackle and do the slinging motion that Sicily did it’s goodnight.

I'm sad to inform BRAB but seems like a certain gun Lions NEAFL premiership player disagrees:

 

[Elixuh]

I'm sad to inform BRAB but seems like a certain gun Lions NEAFL premiership player disagrees:

I’m kinda surprised how vehemently some people are seeing this one. Sicily pins the arms and leverages his body weight to sling hugh.

No he didn’t meant to but that’s irrelevant

 

[wantok]

we kicked the last 3 of the second and looked like running away with the game, did Mitchell make changes?

Theres a reason why coaches aren’t too reactionary. Sometimes you’re best bet is to stick with your guns

Zorko is that man. He's a fighter.

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[Tom14]

I’m kinda surprised how vehemently some people are seeing this one. Sicily pins the arms and leverages his body weight to sling hugh.

No he didn’t meant to but that’s irrelevant

The initial angle obscuring what happend probably has contributed to that I guess?

I get being frustrated by the MRO being outcome-determined, but the AFL has to be - if they don't come down hard on concussion causing acts there's a whole host of legal risks that won't go away just because people have an opinion on what is a fair tackle on twitter.

 

[Tom14]

The initial angle obscuring what happend probably has contributed to that I guess?

I get being frustrated by the MRO being outcome-determined, but the AFL has to be - if they don't come down hard on concussion causing acts there's a whole host of legal risks that won't go away just because people have an opinion on what is a fair tackle on twitter.

It is funny that I've seen a bunch of hawks fans on social media complaining that he's been sent to the MRO for a tackle he won a free kick for - pretty obvious that he shouldn't have got the free guys. Can't be holding the ball if the tackle was illegally performed.

 

[M Malice]

Every non-Vic team's MCG record in the last 10 games they've played there:

Sydney 5-5 (wins against Melbourne 2019, Richmond 2021, Essendon 2021, Melbourne 2022, Melbourne 2022)
Fremantle 4-6 (wins against Richmond 2017, Collingwood 2019, Melbourne 2022, Melbourne 2023)
Port Adelaide 4-6 (wins against Melbourne 2019, Carlton 2021, Collingwood 2021, Richmond 2023)
West Coast 4-6 (wins against Collingwood 2018, Collingwood 2019, Hawthorn 2019, Hawthorn 2021)
Adelaide 3-6-1 (wins against Carlton 2016, Hawthorn 2017, Carlton 2017, draw with Collingwood 2017)
Gold Coast 3-7 (wins against Melbourne 2014, Hawthorn 2017, Collingwood 2021)
GWS 3-7 (wins against Collingwood 2019, Collingwood 2021, Melbourne 2021)

Brisbane 1-9 (only win against Melbourne in 2022)

 

[mighty_lions]

It is funny that I've seen a bunch of hawks fans on social media complaining that he's been sent to the MRO for a tackle he won a free kick for - pretty obvious that he shouldn't have got the free guys. Can't be holding the ball if the tackle was illegally performed.

completely disagree, its a disgrace if he gets suspended for it. Imagine if that was one of our players in prelim

 

[Sproj]

Every non-Vic team's MCG record in the last 10 games they've played there:

Sydney 5-5 (wins against Melbourne 2019, Richmond 2021, Essendon 2021, Melbourne 2022, Melbourne 2022)
Fremantle 4-6 (wins against Richmond 2017, Collingwood 2019, Melbourne 2022, Melbourne 2023)
Port Adelaide 4-6 (wins against Melbourne 2019, Carlton 2021, Collingwood 2021, Richmond 2023)
West Coast 4-6 (wins against Collingwood 2018, Collingwood 2019, Hawthorn 2019, Hawthorn 2021)
Adelaide 3-6-1 (wins against Carlton 2016, Hawthorn 2017, Carlton 2017, draw with Collingwood 2017)
Gold Coast 3-7 (wins against Melbourne 2014, Hawthorn 2017, Collingwood 2021)
GWS 3-7 (wins against Collingwood 2019, Collingwood 2021, Melbourne 2021)

Brisbane 1-9 (only win against Melbourne in 2022)

Makes you wonder what we need to do, feels like we are at a crossroad. This team doesn't seem to have that extra level but maybe the squad does, some risks need to be taken.

 

[Sanchez365]

we kicked the last 3 of the second and looked like running away with the game, did Mitchell make changes?

Theres a reason why coaches aren’t too reactionary. Sometimes you’re best bet is to stick with your guns

There's a slight difference there considering it was 3 minutes in red time vs an entire quarter imo.

If you dont have a problem with how we were coaches on the day, do you think we were just out prepared for the day? Or do you think the players just dropped the ball?

 

[Nathan Barley]

There's a slight difference there considering it was 3 minutes in red time vs an entire quarter imo.

If you dont have a problem with how we were coaches on the day, do you think we were just out prepared for the day? Or do you think the players just dropped the ball?

Lost it at team selection (and last 6 years of drafting)

And something seriously stinks about our away form

 

[martinson]

Sicily should get 3 weeks. That was about as dangerous as it gets when you've got a guy below the waist and sling his whole upper body.

Re our record in Melbourne. It stinks. Teams well below us on the ladder go miles better.

Why is it so ? Just an overall lack of mental fortitude in adverse conditions.

The bookies know. When we play at the Gabba we're miles under the odds and you struggle to get on. In Melbourne they're happy to take whatever bets come in.

 

[On the quiet]

Makes you wonder what we need to do, feels like we are at a crossroad. This team doesn't seem to have that extra level but maybe the squad does, some risks need to be taken.

Yep thinking outside the box, I assume the AFL have accommodation contracts for interstate teams, but whatever hotel the Lions is staying at when playing at the G, time for something to change.
Maybe travel down a few days earlier and have a few training sessions on the G, and
take some risks at the selection table when playing at the G,
1-9 is terrible.

 

[BRAB]

I'm sad to inform BRAB but seems like a certain gun Lions NEAFL premiership player disagrees:

Basti is desperately trying to be ALDI brand Kane Cornes at the moment. I miss the gentle Basti that was so loved as a lions player

 

[buttermuffs]

I’m kinda surprised how vehemently some people are seeing this one. Sicily pins the arms and leverages his body weight to sling hugh.

No he didn’t meant to but that’s irrelevant

People are bemoaning the end of football as we know it and it pisses me off to no end. Like people like to talk about how they’re all about greater protections for players then throw a fit when there’s been some growing pains when approaching the situation.

The Butler tackle on Thursday is a good example. Is it harsh? Yes. Do I feel like people are getting way too mad at the AFL for something that clearly had good intentions? Also yes. I feel like people forget that the tribunal is the perfect place to have that debate on whether anything could have been avoided or whether it was just a risk that comes with football.

We have clearly seen this year that players possess the ability to effectively tackle while not needing to always dump a player to the ground. So many examples of players actually taking more precaution when taking players to ground or actually just deciding that an upright tackle is sufficient. Whether people like it or not, we are seeing immediate changes from players who have been taught to do the opposite all their life. With another couple off seasons I think the dangerous tackle will be a free kick paid as frequently as forceful contact below the knees (which is a rarity).

 

[buttermuffs]

completely disagree, its a disgrace if he gets suspended for it. Imagine if that was one of our players in prelim

Rayner was suspended for less in round 23 last year and missed a final because of it.


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