Review Round 13, 2024 - Western Bulldogs vs. Brisbane Lions

[Nathan Barley]

Strong bias maybe. Lyons is passed his prime and probably was never as mobile as Rayner. I think we have different views on Prior. I think he is only solid back up and yes his stats are padded through kick ins and playing a quarter back role, but he does chase and put his body on the line more consistently than the other player in question.

Are you happy with Rayners demonstrated effort over his career? This was central point of my post or are you going to nit pick around the edges?

I'm willing to back the players and coaches who vote him into the leadership squad and continually select him rather than select fully remember parts of him game yo suit a preconceived narrative.

He's a handy role player who should be better and more consistent but we just have to live with that

 

[knaf]

I'm willing to back the players and coaches who vote him into the leadership squad and continually select him rather than select fully remember parts of him game yo suit a preconceived narrative.

He's a handy role player who should be better and more consistent but we just have to live with that

So just for the record you’re not happy with his effort and consistency. Glad we agree.

 

[Nathan Barley]

So just for the record you’re not happy with his effort and consistency. Glad we agree.

Effort is fine, consistency neg

 

[Tassie4ever]

I think your exhibiting an extremely strong bias here.

I've seen all 4 show very bad body language at VFL

I mean all prior does is wander around getting cheap kicks in the back half, you'll never see a player stand still more often than Lyons as well

Very seldom do I comment on some of the utter crap posted here, but this is simply utter crap.

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk

 

[Nathan Barley]

Very seldom do I comment on some of the utter crap posted here, but this is simply utter crap.

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk

Give our social media pages a follow then and sit in the comments of any post

 

[SpecialBruce]

Its good we won but temper expectations. Everyone thought we turned a corner against Melbourne and then dished up a lot of shit.

If we get to the Sydney game unbeaten or with one loss then, we may have turned the corner. Every game up until then is winnable. Port Adelaide is the massive test.

 

[Gadzorks]

If I am one of the whiners you identify, I make no apologies.

I was quick to post in acknowledge that Rayner had a very good team orientated game and consistently demonstrated real effort when he didn’t have the ball. He demonstrated he is one of the most naturally gifted player on our list. Why is he so often one of our statistical worst and exhibit body language they doesn’t show real commitment to effort?

As I said I make no apology for identifying the under utilisation of his skill and draft capital. The club, the coaching group and the player himself need to be held to account. So pleased for him that he showed he takes it to heart and is attempting to deliver on his potential.

Charlie and hippy have been down this year, but I haven’t “whined” about them because I believe they have been demonstrating effort even though it wasn’t coming together for them.

I think you are also a vfl watcher. Every week you see guys like Robertson, Sharp, Lyons and Prior trying their guts out for the club and in the hope they get at least one more game at afl level. I don’t winge that they aren’t selected. I can appreciate the complexity of training 40 odd players and fitting them into 23 selected.

End of rant.

Why is rayner the most gifted player on our list? I do not agree that he has ever demonstrated that in any way other than the odd passage here and there. You can't be the most gifted if you are not consistent.

The draft capital argument is a complete non starter. When we paid pick one for him we were GUESSING that he could be a once in a year talent. It is ridiculous to think that his draft position was agreement that he made with us that he would become that.

That (il)logic would mean that dayne zorko never became a legend. There be no draft steals. No late pick bargains.

Rayner is what he is at this point in time and the constant complaints that because he was pick one he is a failure is driving me nuts. Well, nuttier.

 

[M Malice]

I watched the game again this afternoon and a couple of players who I thought were good on the night were even better than that... Cam Rayner and Brandon Starcevich

37

Brandon Starcevich

Age

24

Ht

187cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.2

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

185.3

3star

D

9.5

2star

K

7.3

3star

HB

2.3

2star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.1

3star

MG

187.9

3star

D

8.6

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

1.4

2star

T

1.8

4star

MG

181.2

3star

were excellent.

 

[bungalow_bill]

You can be the most naturally gifted player and be inconsistent. Quite often supremely gifted athletes think they can coast on talent alone as opposed to their less gifted team mates. Rayner demonstrated his gifts as recently as his demolition of Melbourne. IMO he's top 3 for most talented Lions - with McCluggage & Ashcroft.

 

[M Malice]

You can be the most naturally gifted player and be inconsistent. Quite often supremely gifted athletes think they can coast on talent alone as opposed to their less gifted team mates. Rayner demonstrated his gifts as recently as his demolition of Melbourne. IMO he's top 3 for most talented Lions - with McCluggage & Ashcroft.

I would add in Keidean Coleman and make a Fab4.

 

[bungalow_bill]

I would add in Keidean Coleman and make a Fab4.

Yeah was considering Coleman. Kids a freakish kick

 

[Viceregal]

Part of the issue with Rayner is not that he is playing at a level lower than we had hoped but which is his ceiling (which would be disappointing but would not inspire vitriol) but that we have seen him play at a higher level and just not keep it up and so the knives come out as to why he chooses to (for the individualists here) or why the system stops him (for the collectivists on board) from doing it regularly.

It is the hope that disappoints that sickens the heart...

 

[bungalow_bill]

Part of the issue with Rayner is not that he is playing at a level lower than we had hoped but which is his ceiling (which would be disappointing but would not inspire vitriol) but that we have seen him play at a higher level and just not keep it up and so the knives come out as to why he chooses to (for the individualists here) or why the system stops him (for the collectivists on board) from doing it regularly.

It is the hope that disappoints that sickens the heart...

It is frustrating for sure.

 

[McIvor]

I watched the game again this afternoon and a couple of players who I thought were good on the night were even better than that... Cam Rayner and Brandon Starcevich were excellent.

Did the same today and agreed, I thought Cam’s game was really good and he played his role to perfection. I loved his two kicks that resulted in goals to Joe and Eric and then two perfectly timed handballs that released Wilmot and I think Dunkley.

Logan Morris was another that just had some exceptional moments and it’s hard not to get excited about what he could become after a pre season or two.

 

[Dalions]

You can be the most naturally gifted player and be inconsistent. Quite often supremely gifted athletes think they can coast on talent alone as opposed to their less gifted team mates. Rayner demonstrated his gifts as recently as his demolition of Melbourne. IMO he's top 3 for most talented Lions - with McCluggage & Ashcroft.

Perfect example - Jarrod Brennan

 

[knaf]

Why is rayner the most gifted player on our list? I do not agree that he has ever demonstrated that in any way other than the odd passage here and there. You can't be the most gifted if you are not consistent.

The draft capital argument is a complete non starter. When we paid pick one for him we were GUESSING that he could be a once in a year talent. It is ridiculous to think that his draft position was agreement that he made with us that he would become that.

That (il)logic would mean that dayne zorko never became a legend. There be no draft steals. No late pick bargains.

Rayner is what he is at this point in time and the constant complaints that because he was pick one he is a failure is driving me nuts. Well, nuttier.

“I didn’t say he was the most gifted player on our list” I said He demonstrated he is one of the most naturally gifted player on our list. The handball you were praising is just one example. How many other players on our list could do that?

The gap between his talent and his consistency is the problem. Talent and consistency are two completely different things.

The loss of draft capital is central to me. The club, after what I assume was hours of deliberation, drafted arguably the most talented player in that draft, disrespectful to say they guessed. We haven’t got value and I think that’s an issue. If you invest in a company and it doesn’t deliver you need to take action. You can’t sit around while value deteriorates. My belief the same applies to football. I don’t believe pointing the fact out is “whining.” The central point of my first post.

Good to see the coach and the player attempting to take action to rectify the situation by giving him a clearly defined role and congratulations again to Rayner for his game on Friday night

 

[martinson]

“I didn’t say he was the most gifted player on our list” I said He demonstrated he is one of the most naturally gifted player on our list. The handball you were praising is just one example. How many other players on our list could do that?

The gap between his talent and his consistency is the problem. Talent and consistency are two completely different things.

The loss of draft capital is central to me. The club, after what I assume was hours of deliberation, drafted arguably the most talented player in that draft, disrespectful to say they guessed. We haven’t got value and I think that’s an issue. If you invest in a company and it doesn’t deliver you need to take action. You can’t sit around while value deteriorates. My belief the same applies to football. I don’t believe pointing the fact out is “whining.” The central point of my first post.

Good to see the coach and the player attempting to take action to rectify the situation by giving him a clearly defined role and congratulations again to Rayner for his game on Friday night

Cam played one of his best games for the club on Friday.

But honestly he does a couple of handballs that Lachie does by hand or foot 10 times a game and suddenly he's gifted.

People here are delusional about Cam. He isn't gifted at all. If he keeps working hard and plays with the control and team ethic he showed this week he's going to be a good solid player.

I'd say he was our 7th or 8th best player on Friday which is commendable . He's still got improvement in him if he plays in the same disciplined fashion and should get better.

 

[StevoJenkins]

The continued worry out of this game is Charlie’s form. I’ve said I personally believe he’s lost some of his top end speed, whether that be due to an injury or age (or both) who knows, but we need to be able to still get him into the game when he’s getting nowhere near it like last night. Put him on ball or for a stint off HB to get a couple of cheaper touches. If he can somehow get back to even 80% on previous form in the back half of the year, then we are a chance of sneaking into the 8.

Charlie isn’t getting as much of the ball because he’s playing McCarthy’s role and Kai is now playing Charlie’s role. McCarthy doesn’t get a goal every week, but when he does he earns his opportunity. Charlie’s being played higher up the ground which means he won’t get goals as much. He just needs to get used to his new spot.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Perfect example - Jarrod Brennan

Thought about Brennan while I was typing that post. Like Rayner he was supremely gifted but just never had the consistency

 

[Bucking Beads]

Fantastic win. Nice to see Hipwood have a great game. He now needs to back it up and play like that week in and week out.

 

[LongLion]

I watched the game again this afternoon and a couple of players who I thought were good on the night were even better than that... Cam Rayner and Brandon Starcevich were excellent.

Starcevich looked leaner and fitter than I recall seeing him earlier in the year.

 

[martinson]

Starcevich looked leaner and fitter than I recall seeing him earlier in the year.

I don't think Starcevich has been as bad as some people made out. He was comfortably holding his spot in the team and starting to find some good form just before he got injured.

 

[mpal6]

Not getting carried away with that’un. Eric wonderful. Good week for anyone who played well, actually, as they won’t be the chump making way for Beecken.

That'll be one steep climb for Beecken if he manages to get into first 22 team.

Considering he's a 2023 7th round draft pick of sorts, it'll be some amazing drafting by our recruiters.

EDIT : I checked again to be sure, so its 64 picks in 2023 national draft, 3 in PSD, 19 rookies, 10 pre-season SSP and another 16 players picks in MSD before Beecken got selected at pick 17. So in total he's the 113th pick of the 2023 draft. Amazing if we manage to find gold at this level, you have to give Lions recruiters their credit for getting him.

Pick 102, 2023 overall draft - Will McLachlan
Pick 113, 2023 overall draft - Luke Beecken
Pick 115, 2023 overall draft - Darcy Craven

 

[Section 5]

That'll be one steep climb for Beecken if he manages to get into first 22 team.

Considering he's a 2023 7th round draft pick of sorts, it'll be some amazing drafting by our recruiters.

EDIT : I checked again to be sure, so its 64 picks in 2023 national draft, 3 in PSD, 19 rookies, 10 pre-season SSP and another 16 players picks in MSD before Beecken got selected at pick 17. So in total he's the 113th pick of the 2023 draft. Amazing if we manage to find gold at this level, you have to give Lions recruiters their credit for getting him.

Pick 102, 2023 overall draft - Will McLachlan
Pick 113, 2023 overall draft - Luke Beecken
Pick 115, 2023 overall draft - Darcy Craven

He has had time to improve his game at lower levels.
Most likely put on some bulk since his first draft eligible year.
Also gained confidence in his ability during this time in the lower levels.

Just in our team we have Zorko, Oscar & Reville that have come through the lower levels

 

[The Flying Belgian]

That'll be one steep climb for Beecken if he manages to get into first 22 team.

Considering he's a 2023 7th round draft pick of sorts, it'll be some amazing drafting by our recruiters.

EDIT : I checked again to be sure, so its 64 picks in 2023 national draft, 3 in PSD, 19 rookies, 10 pre-season SSP and another 16 players picks in MSD before Beecken got selected at pick 17. So in total he's the 113th pick of the 2023 draft. Amazing if we manage to find gold at this level, you have to give Lions recruiters their credit for getting him.

Pick 102, 2023 overall draft - Will McLachlan
Pick 113, 2023 overall draft - Luke Beecken
Pick 115, 2023 overall draft - Darcy Craven

Bit too simplistic a viewpoint for mine. Like kids will bolt through their draft year, the same can happen on their overage year.