Round 13 changes

martinson · May 28, 2024

Elixuh said:
We can’t say we have tried him in the midfield when we give him some time one week and then nothing. Month or two later, back in for a bit then nothing again.

To know whether he can play midfield you’d need to give him legitimate time there over a sustained period. We have never done that.

That's true. In the Melbourne game he tore it apart for a quarter and then that was it. Since then bits and pieces as you say.

I can only presume they don't think he can do it or any team in our situation would obviously be doing it. On top of that he's not doing much at all where he is.

Surely now we try it because we're not getting anywhere as things stand and the team's struggling or as is my preference at least try it in the seconds where he gets the chance to build confidence and dominate in the role if he can.

The whole thing's a conundrum in my view . We had him down back for a while 'to teach him how to play on forwards' and since then he was ' taking himself into the CBA when he felt the need ' , then he's 3rd tall , now it doesn't look like he is but not in the midfield either.

Elixuh · May 28, 2024

martinson said:
That's true. In the Melbourne game he tore it apart for a quarter and then that was it. Since then bits and pieces as you say.

I can only presume they don't think he can do it or any team in our situation would obviously be doing it. On top of that he's not doing much at all where he is.

Surely now we try it because we're not getting anywhere as things stand and the team's struggling or as is my preference at least try it in the seconds where he gets the chance to build confidence and dominate in the role if he can.

The whole thing's a conundrum in my view . We had him down back for a while 'to teach him how to play on forwards' and since then he was ' taking himself into the CBA when he felt the need ' , then he's 3rd tall , now it doesn't look like he is but not in the midfield either.

I think they do it for team structure. I think the coaches are wedded to a certain look. You only have to look at persisting with Gardiner forward or bringing in Ryan to replace hipwood despite no form line in the VFL.

Section 5 · May 28, 2024

Time has come for Fagan to send a message and drop players that are not playing up to expectations, irrespective of who is available in the VFL. Move the best 22 around slightly if no direct replacement in the VFL.
He also needs to move Wilmot to the wing to free up spots in the half back logjam of players that belong at AFL level.
Zorko, Wilmot, McKenna, Starcevich, Answerth & possibly Brain. We have 6 but only need 4.

Our wingers have been a problem for many years and that is one position (3 players) we need to improve greatly.
It is either the way Fagan wants to play his wingers, or it is the wrong players selected. I don't know which is the issue.
Most likely it is the players as McCluggage and Berry were always able to rack up possessions, but others have not.
The jury still out on young Fletcher but he looks promising in that role.
I think these wing positions is why we lost the GF last year and the reason we did not make the GF in previous years.

Lots of talk about Rayner but other players are also inconsistent.
A lot of posters on BF are Ah-Chee fans but he has been a consistent low possession player over his career similar to Rayner.
The difference is Ah-Chee has spent time in the VFL and really is a fringe player in a GF team in my opinion.
Many on BF will disagree with me on this, but Ah-Chee regularly puts up the same stats year in year out with no real improvement. Puts in a good performance now and then to hold his spot not unlike Rayner and others.

Career stats for Rayner (pick 1) and Ah-Chee (pick 8).

Career Season Averages

Cam Rayner Pick 1 in 2017 National Draft

Year	Team	GM	K	H	D	M	G	B	T	HO	FF	FA	GA	I50	CL	CG	R50	BL
2024	Lions	11	7.5	7.0	14.4	3.2	0.7	0.5	3.7	0	0.6	0.7	0.5	3.0	2.5	2.5	0.6
2023	Lions	26	8.3	5.9	14.2	3.9	0.9	0.7	2.2	0	0.7	0.7	0.6	2.7	1.6	2.6	0.7	0.09
2022	Lions	24*	8.8	5.9	14.7	3.2	1.0	0.9	2.3	0	1.0	0.9	0.8	2.8	2.4	2.7	0.7	0.18
2020	Lions	17	5.0	4.8	9.8	3.0	1.0	0.4	3.2	0	0.7	0.7	0.5	2.1	1.2	1.4	0.3	0.13
2019	Lions	24	5.8	3.8	9.5	2.5	0.8	1.0	2.2	0	1.0	0.7	0.3	1.8	0.7	2.0	0.5
2018	Lions	22	6.8	6.7	13.5	3.5	0.9	0.6	2.4	0	0.9	0.6	0.4	2.5	1.7	2.2	0.7	0.14
Career		124*	7.1	5.6	12.7	3.2	0.9	0.7	2.5	0	0.8	0.7	0.5	2.5	1.6	2.2	0.6	0.11

Cal Ah-Chee Pick 8 in 2015 National Draft

Career Season Averages

Year	Team	GM	K	H	D	M	G	B	T	HO	FF	FA	GA	I50	CL	CG	R50	BL
2024	Lions	10*	8.6	4.7	13.3	4.5	0.6	0.2	1.5	0	0.2	0.9	0.4	1.9	1.2	2.6	1.4
2023	Lions	12*	6.8	3.8	10.5	3.5	0.5	0.4	2.2	0	0.8	1.2	0.4	1.6	0.8	2.2	0.7
2022	Lions	21*	6.3	5.3	11.6	3.5	0.4	0.3	1.7	0	0.5	0.9	0.2	1.5	0.5	1.8	1.0
2021	Lions	21*	4.9	4.6	9.5	1.6	0.3	0	2.8	0	0.2	0.9	0.4	1.6	0.6	1.9	0.5
2020	Lions	18	7.7	3.8	11.5	3.5	0.2	0.2	2.9	0	0.5	0.8	0.1	1.9	0.6	2.6	1.8
2019	Suns	1	11.0	6.0	17.0	5.0	0	0	2.0	0	0	2.0	0	3.0	4.0	2.0	2.0
2018	Suns	14	9.1	5.5	14.6	3.6	0.2	0.4	2.6	0	0.9	1.2	0.4	2.2	0.6	3.1	1.8
2017	Suns	14	6.1	5.3	11.4	2.4	0.9	0.2	3.1	0	0.8	1.1	0.4	1.7	0.4	2.6	0.6
2016	Suns	16	5.3	7.8	13.1	2.9	0.6	0.6	3.1	0	0.9	0.5	0.5	2.2	1.1	1.6	0.3
Career		127*	6.7	5.1	11.8	3.1	0.4	0.3	2.5	0	0.6	0.9	0.3	1.8	0.7	2.2	1.0

M Malice · May 28, 2024

Section 5 said:
Time has come for Fagan to send a message and drop players that are not playing up to expectations, irrespective of who is available in the VFL. Move the best 22 around slightly if no direct replacement in the VFL.
He also needs to move Wilmot to the wing to free up spots in the half back logjam of players that belong at AFL level.
Zorko, Wilmot, McKenna, Starcevich, Answerth & possibly Brain. We have 6 but only need 4.

Our wingers have been a problem for many years and that is one position (3 players) we need to improve greatly.
It is either the way Fagan wants to play his wingers, or it is the wrong players selected. I don't know which is the issue.
Most likely it is the players as McCluggage and Berry were always able to rack up possessions, but others have not.
The jury still out on young Fletcher but he looks promising in that role.
I think these wing positions is why we lost the GF last year and the reason we did not make the GF in previous years.

Lots of talk about Rayner but other players are also inconsistent.
A lot of posters on BF are Ah-Chee fans but he has been a consistent low possession player over his career similar to Rayner.
The difference is Ah-Chee has spent time in the VFL and really is a fringe player in a GF team in my opinion.
Many on BF will disagree with me on this, but Ah-Chee regularly puts up the same stats year in year out with no real improvement. Puts in a good performance now and then to hold his spot not unlike Rayner and others.

Career stats for Rayner (pick 1) and Ah-Chee (pick 8).

Career Season Averages
Cam Rayner Pick 1 in 2017 National Draft

Year Team GM K H D M G B T HO FF FA GA I50 CL CG R50 BL
2024
Lions
11
7.5
7.0
14.4
3.2
0.7
0.5
3.7
0
0.6
0.7
0.5
3.0
2.5
2.5
0.6

2023
Lions
26
8.3
5.9
14.2
3.9
0.9
0.7
2.2
0
0.7
0.7
0.6
2.7
1.6
2.6
0.7
0.09
2022
Lions
24*
8.8
5.9
14.7
3.2
1.0
0.9
2.3
0
1.0
0.9
0.8
2.8
2.4
2.7
0.7
0.18
2020
Lions
17
5.0
4.8
9.8
3.0
1.0
0.4
3.2
0
0.7
0.7
0.5
2.1
1.2
1.4
0.3
0.13
2019
Lions
24
5.8
3.8
9.5
2.5
0.8
1.0
2.2
0
1.0
0.7
0.3
1.8
0.7
2.0
0.5

2018
Lions
22
6.8
6.7
13.5
3.5
0.9
0.6
2.4
0
0.9
0.6
0.4
2.5
1.7
2.2
0.7
0.14
Career

124*
7.1
5.6
12.7
3.2
0.9
0.7
2.5
0
0.8
0.7
0.5
2.5
1.6
2.2
0.6
0.11

Cal Ah-Chee Pick 8 in 2015 National Draft
Career Season Averages

Year Team GM K H D M G B T HO FF FA GA I50 CL CG R50 BL
2024
Lions
10*
8.6
4.7
13.3
4.5
0.6
0.2
1.5
0
0.2
0.9
0.4
1.9
1.2
2.6
1.4

2023
Lions
12*
6.8
3.8
10.5
3.5
0.5
0.4
2.2
0
0.8
1.2
0.4
1.6
0.8
2.2
0.7

2022
Lions
21*
6.3
5.3
11.6
3.5
0.4
0.3
1.7
0
0.5
0.9
0.2
1.5
0.5
1.8
1.0

2021
Lions
21*
4.9
4.6
9.5
1.6
0.3
0
2.8
0
0.2
0.9
0.4
1.6
0.6
1.9
0.5

2020
Lions
18
7.7
3.8
11.5
3.5
0.2
0.2
2.9
0
0.5
0.8
0.1
1.9
0.6
2.6
1.8

2019
Suns
1
11.0
6.0
17.0
5.0
0
0
2.0
0
0
2.0
0
3.0
4.0
2.0
2.0

2018
Suns
14
9.1
5.5
14.6
3.6
0.2
0.4
2.6
0
0.9
1.2
0.4
2.2
0.6
3.1
1.8

2017
Suns
14
6.1
5.3
11.4
2.4
0.9
0.2
3.1
0
0.8
1.1
0.4
1.7
0.4
2.6
0.6

2016
Suns
16
5.3
7.8
13.1
2.9
0.6
0.6
3.1
0
0.9
0.5
0.5
2.2
1.1
1.6
0.3

Career

127*
6.7
5.1
11.8
3.1
0.4
0.3
2.5
0
0.6
0.9
0.3
1.8
0.7
2.2
1.0

Eerily similar stats with Rayner a slight advantage, interesting conundrum.

Sanchez365 · May 28, 2024

Section 5 said:
Time has come for Fagan to send a message and drop players that are not playing up to expectations, irrespective of who is available in the VFL. Move the best 22 around slightly if no direct replacement in the VFL.
He also needs to move Wilmot to the wing to free up spots in the half back logjam of players that belong at AFL level.
Zorko, Wilmot, McKenna, Starcevich, Answerth & possibly Brain. We have 6 but only need 4.

Our wingers have been a problem for many years and that is one position (3 players) we need to improve greatly.
It is either the way Fagan wants to play his wingers, or it is the wrong players selected. I don't know which is the issue.
Most likely it is the players as McCluggage and Berry were always able to rack up possessions, but others have not.
The jury still out on young Fletcher but he looks promising in that role.
I think these wing positions is why we lost the GF last year and the reason we did not make the GF in previous years.

Lots of talk about Rayner but other players are also inconsistent.
A lot of posters on BF are Ah-Chee fans but he has been a consistent low possession player over his career similar to Rayner.
The difference is Ah-Chee has spent time in the VFL and really is a fringe player in a GF team in my opinion.
Many on BF will disagree with me on this, but Ah-Chee regularly puts up the same stats year in year out with no real improvement. Puts in a good performance now and then to hold his spot not unlike Rayner and others.

Career stats for Rayner (pick 1) and Ah-Chee (pick 8).

Career Season Averages
Cam Rayner Pick 1 in 2017 National Draft

Year Team GM K H D M G B T HO FF FA GA I50 CL CG R50 BL
2024
Lions
11
7.5
7.0
14.4
3.2
0.7
0.5
3.7
0
0.6
0.7
0.5
3.0
2.5
2.5
0.6

2023
Lions
26
8.3
5.9
14.2
3.9
0.9
0.7
2.2
0
0.7
0.7
0.6
2.7
1.6
2.6
0.7
0.09
2022
Lions
24*
8.8
5.9
14.7
3.2
1.0
0.9
2.3
0
1.0
0.9
0.8
2.8
2.4
2.7
0.7
0.18
2020
Lions
17
5.0
4.8
9.8
3.0
1.0
0.4
3.2
0
0.7
0.7
0.5
2.1
1.2
1.4
0.3
0.13
2019
Lions
24
5.8
3.8
9.5
2.5
0.8
1.0
2.2
0
1.0
0.7
0.3
1.8
0.7
2.0
0.5

2018
Lions
22
6.8
6.7
13.5
3.5
0.9
0.6
2.4
0
0.9
0.6
0.4
2.5
1.7
2.2
0.7
0.14
Career

124*
7.1
5.6
12.7
3.2
0.9
0.7
2.5
0
0.8
0.7
0.5
2.5
1.6
2.2
0.6
0.11

Cal Ah-Chee Pick 8 in 2015 National Draft
Career Season Averages

Year Team GM K H D M G B T HO FF FA GA I50 CL CG R50 BL
2024
Lions
10*
8.6
4.7
13.3
4.5
0.6
0.2
1.5
0
0.2
0.9
0.4
1.9
1.2
2.6
1.4

2023
Lions
12*
6.8
3.8
10.5
3.5
0.5
0.4
2.2
0
0.8
1.2
0.4
1.6
0.8
2.2
0.7

2022
Lions
21*
6.3
5.3
11.6
3.5
0.4
0.3
1.7
0
0.5
0.9
0.2
1.5
0.5
1.8
1.0

2021
Lions
21*
4.9
4.6
9.5
1.6
0.3
0
2.8
0
0.2
0.9
0.4
1.6
0.6
1.9
0.5

2020
Lions
18
7.7
3.8
11.5
3.5
0.2
0.2
2.9
0
0.5
0.8
0.1
1.9
0.6
2.6
1.8

2019
Suns
1
11.0
6.0
17.0
5.0
0
0
2.0
0
0
2.0
0
3.0
4.0
2.0
2.0

2018
Suns
14
9.1
5.5
14.6
3.6
0.2
0.4
2.6
0
0.9
1.2
0.4
2.2
0.6
3.1
1.8

2017
Suns
14
6.1
5.3
11.4
2.4
0.9
0.2
3.1
0
0.8
1.1
0.4
1.7
0.4
2.6
0.6

2016
Suns
16
5.3
7.8
13.1
2.9
0.6
0.6
3.1
0
0.9
0.5
0.5
2.2
1.1
1.6
0.3

Career

127*
6.7
5.1
11.8
3.1
0.4
0.3
2.5
0
0.6
0.9
0.3
1.8
0.7
2.2
1.0

Also crazy here that statistically Rayner is arguably having his best ever season. Doubled his I50s and his tackles.

Nunez · May 28, 2024

Elixuh said:
We can’t say we have tried him in the midfield when we give him some time one week and then nothing. Month or two later, back in for a bit then nothing again.

To know whether he can play midfield you’d need to give him legitimate time there over a sustained period. We have never done that.

Exactly. Not to mention the argument over his ability to be clean etc is hard to judge when it seems pretty clear he isn't clean when he's down on confidence and has the ball on a string when he is.

HereIGoAgain · May 28, 2024

Nunez said:
Exactly. Not to mention the argument over his ability to be clean etc is hard to judge when it seems pretty clear he isn't clean when he's down on confidence and has the ball on a string when he is.

The best quarter that he played was see ball get ball in clearance situations. He didn't look like he was deferring to Neale or the other mids. Unfortunately the reserves, getting coached up close by Lyons, would be best for him to work on that part of his game.

SizeMatters · May 28, 2024

Section 5 said:
Time has come for Fagan to send a message and drop players that are not playing up to expectations, irrespective of who is available in the VFL. Move the best 22 around slightly if no direct replacement in the VFL.
He also needs to move Wilmot to the wing to free up spots in the half back logjam of players that belong at AFL level.
Zorko, Wilmot, McKenna, Starcevich, Answerth & possibly Brain. We have 6 but only need 4.

Our wingers have been a problem for many years and that is one position (3 players) we need to improve greatly.
It is either the way Fagan wants to play his wingers, or it is the wrong players selected. I don't know which is the issue.
Most likely it is the players as McCluggage and Berry were always able to rack up possessions, but others have not.
The jury still out on young Fletcher but he looks promising in that role.
I think these wing positions is why we lost the GF last year and the reason we did not make the GF in previous years.

Lots of talk about Rayner but other players are also inconsistent.
A lot of posters on BF are Ah-Chee fans but he has been a consistent low possession player over his career similar to Rayner.
The difference is Ah-Chee has spent time in the VFL and really is a fringe player in a GF team in my opinion.
Many on BF will disagree with me on this, but Ah-Chee regularly puts up the same stats year in year out with no real improvement. Puts in a good performance now and then to hold his spot not unlike Rayner and others.

Career stats for Rayner (pick 1) and Ah-Chee (pick 8).

Career Season Averages
Cam Rayner Pick 1 in 2017 National Draft

Year Team GM K H D M G B T HO FF FA GA I50 CL CG R50 BL
2024
Lions
11
7.5
7.0
14.4
3.2
0.7
0.5
3.7
0
0.6
0.7
0.5
3.0
2.5
2.5
0.6

2023
Lions
26
8.3
5.9
14.2
3.9
0.9
0.7
2.2
0
0.7
0.7
0.6
2.7
1.6
2.6
0.7
0.09
2022
Lions
24*
8.8
5.9
14.7
3.2
1.0
0.9
2.3
0
1.0
0.9
0.8
2.8
2.4
2.7
0.7
0.18
2020
Lions
17
5.0
4.8
9.8
3.0
1.0
0.4
3.2
0
0.7
0.7
0.5
2.1
1.2
1.4
0.3
0.13
2019
Lions
24
5.8
3.8
9.5
2.5
0.8
1.0
2.2
0
1.0
0.7
0.3
1.8
0.7
2.0
0.5

2018
Lions
22
6.8
6.7
13.5
3.5
0.9
0.6
2.4
0
0.9
0.6
0.4
2.5
1.7
2.2
0.7
0.14
Career

124*
7.1
5.6
12.7
3.2
0.9
0.7
2.5
0
0.8
0.7
0.5
2.5
1.6
2.2
0.6
0.11

Cal Ah-Chee Pick 8 in 2015 National Draft
Career Season Averages

Year Team GM K H D M G B T HO FF FA GA I50 CL CG R50 BL
2024
Lions
10*
8.6
4.7
13.3
4.5
0.6
0.2
1.5
0
0.2
0.9
0.4
1.9
1.2
2.6
1.4

2023
Lions
12*
6.8
3.8
10.5
3.5
0.5
0.4
2.2
0
0.8
1.2
0.4
1.6
0.8
2.2
0.7

2022
Lions
21*
6.3
5.3
11.6
3.5
0.4
0.3
1.7
0
0.5
0.9
0.2
1.5
0.5
1.8
1.0

2021
Lions
21*
4.9
4.6
9.5
1.6
0.3
0
2.8
0
0.2
0.9
0.4
1.6
0.6
1.9
0.5

2020
Lions
18
7.7
3.8
11.5
3.5
0.2
0.2
2.9
0
0.5
0.8
0.1
1.9
0.6
2.6
1.8

2019
Suns
1
11.0
6.0
17.0
5.0
0
0
2.0
0
0
2.0
0
3.0
4.0
2.0
2.0

2018
Suns
14
9.1
5.5
14.6
3.6
0.2
0.4
2.6
0
0.9
1.2
0.4
2.2
0.6
3.1
1.8

2017
Suns
14
6.1
5.3
11.4
2.4
0.9
0.2
3.1
0
0.8
1.1
0.4
1.7
0.4
2.6
0.6

2016
Suns
16
5.3
7.8
13.1
2.9
0.6
0.6
3.1
0
0.9
0.5
0.5
2.2
1.1
1.6
0.3

Career

127*
6.7
5.1
11.8
3.1
0.4
0.3
2.5
0
0.6
0.9
0.3
1.8
0.7
2.2
1.0

Yup which is even more so baffling half this board want ah Chee dropped and the other half want Rayner promoted to midfield minutes with a poster even going as far as saying he should take Neales role as midfield general.

mpal6 · May 28, 2024

Nathan Barley said:
Or we know he doesn't have the endurance so don't bother trying to get a full game out of him

Every time I read this for some reason it keeps reminding me of "Berry shoulder is busted" group think. We want to believe in a set narrative to justify our thought process as the opposite doesn't make any sense.
And bang, there goes Berry in the middle getting 20-25 possessions, 6-7 tackles, clearances and marks, we all start to look silly then.

Nathan Barley · May 28, 2024

mpal6 said:
Every time I read this for some reason it keeps reminding me of "Berry shoulder is busted" group think. We want to believe in a set narrative to justify our thought process as the opposite doesn't make any sense.
And bang, there goes Berry in the middle getting 20-25 possessions, 6-7 tackles, clearances and marks, we all start to look silly then.

Can only assume the shoulder surgery he had after last season has allowed this

Section 5 · May 28, 2024

When you are regularly winning games like we were over the previous 5 years you can have faith in the group selected each week.
This year because of injuries and most likely other reasons that has not happened so far in 2024.
So, players now need to earn their spot or get replaced by someone who is at least performing in the VFL.
Some of the promoted players may not last that long at AFL level as the dropped players may regain their form and be given another chance.
At least the promoted played gets a go at AFL level and the dropped player gets a wakeup call that may reset his season or career.

We may make the 8 by sticking to what has previously worked but we may also make the 8 by making some player changes.
Wilmot to the wing and see how he goes, maybe some midfield time. He looks a natural winger to me.
Moving Zorko and Wilmot allows Starcevich and Brain to come in and you can still keep Answerth who at least puts in each week and has done a decent job anyhow.
Reville more actual midfield time along with young Fletcher.
Lohmann is looking good so give him a go in the middle also to see how he handles the role.
These players don't have to spend large minutes in the midfield just enough to see how they go.
If they go well, you can give them more time the following week. Less or no time the following week if they stink it up.
Give Smith a go as 3rd tall/ruck relief, see how he handles the jump to AFL. That's what could have happened last week.

You don't have to make many changes in one week, as you can move some players around to accommodate someone.
Twelve games left in the season to see some positive signs for 2025.

I won't mind us getting beaten as much if i see some changes to a struggling side. Some will work some won't.

BuntonRules · May 28, 2024

I just cannot see a role for Rayner in the near future. Midfield cuts into Berry's role - that he has been excelling at. Cam's hands are on the Todd Banfield level - every time he can take control, he fumbles. Even the Melbourne game there were so many second grabs that took half a second off the receivers time they were under pressure.

Morris is as natural 3rd tall as you will see. Cam flies from the back and drops it - whilst interfering with his bigger team mate trying to mark. Logan stays down & sharks it - to either goal or hand a shot off.

Even as a small forward Lohman has gone past him by so much it is not funny.

Sorry, but I feel the experiment has failed.

Nunez · May 28, 2024

Nathan Barley said:
Can only assume the shoulder surgery he had after last season has allowed this

Could have spent more time on the ball last year if needed, but the last shoulder surgery did the trick.

mpal6 · May 28, 2024

Nathan Barley said:
Can only assume the shoulder surgery he had after last season has allowed this

So are we saying he was fit and ready to play inside since start of the season, but it sort of fell on his lap only after injuries?

The 'ultimate team man' helping lift Lions

Jarrod Berry's role change has been key to the Lions' improved form

www.afl.com.au

And although injuries opened the door for Berry to change positions three weeks ago, the 26-year-old is making a strong case for staying there long-term.

Zac Bailey's ankle injury and Harry Sharp's late inclusion to the 22 against the Suns meant the Lions had a surplus of wingers (with Sharp, Jaspa Fletcher and Bruce Reville), allowing coach Chris Fagan to move Berry onball.

Prior to that match, the No.17 pick from the 2016 AFL Draft had not attended one centre bounce in 2024. Since, he's attended 44 in the past three weeks and averaged 24 disposals, four tackles, three clearances and kicked two goals since.

Johnny Bananas · May 28, 2024

BuntonRules said:
I just cannot see a role for Rayner in the near future. Midfield cuts into Berry's role - that he has been excelling at. Cam's hands are on the Todd Banfield level - every time he can take control, he fumbles. Even the Melbourne game there were so many second grabs that took half a second off the receivers time they were under pressure.

Morris is as natural 3rd tall as you will see. Cam flies from the back and drops it - whilst interfering with his bigger team mate trying to mark. Logan stays down & sharks it - to either goal or hand a shot off.

Even as a small forward Lohman has gone past him by so much it is not funny.

Sorry, but I feel the experiment has failed.

Could both Berry and Cam play inside midfield if other players' roles reduced? Not saying that will happen, just considering if it would work.

mpal6 · May 28, 2024

Johnny Bananas said:
Could both Berry and Cam play inside midfield if other players' roles reduced? Not saying that will happen, just considering if it would work.

I'd reduce Neale's midfield minutes and set the task to the rest of the midfielders to win more clearances than Big O. Show us what you've got as the main ball hunter.

Section 5 · May 28, 2024

BRISBANE

PLAYER	INJURY	ESTIMATED RETURN
Will Ashcroft	Knee	5-6 weeks
Keidean Coleman	Knee	Season
Tom Doedee	Knee	Season
Darcy Gardiner	Knee	Season
Eric Hipwood	Suspension	Round 13
Lincoln McCarthy	Knee	Season
Carter Michael	Knee	Test
Brandon Starcevich	Calf	1-2 weeks
Updated: May 28, 2024

Early prognosis

With a bye this week, nothing urgent on the Lions' horizon, although Starcevich could push for selection against the Western Bulldogs upon resumption. Ashcroft is expected back in round 16-18. – Michael Whiting

McIvor · May 28, 2024

SizeMatters said:
Yup which is even more so baffling half this board want ah Chee dropped and the other half want Rayner promoted to midfield minutes with a poster even going as far as saying he should take Neales role as midfield general.

All I keep reading from those that haven’t called for Rayner to be dropped is constant excuses for his recent performances. It’s he needs to play midfield yet despite where he plays he is doesn’t put in, sits on the outside unwilling to get involved yet apparently if he plays midfield he’ll turn into some midfield beast. No matter where any player plays, they should give you unwavering effort. I don’t buy for a second that you get that from him.

3KZ is Football · May 28, 2024

It’s taken Logan Morris exactly four games to go past Cam Rayner and demonstrate that he is more value to the team.

martinson · May 28, 2024

3KZ is Football said:
It’s taken Logan Morris exactly four games to go past Cam Rayner and demonstrate that he is more value to the team.

I'm not sure if Logan will see it out this year 3KZ but he seems to have an awful lot of footy smarts given his experience.

Just looks a natural when he gets near it . But I wouldn't be expecting his output to be anything special for a while yet.

Still worth pumping games into given where we're at.

3KZ is Football · May 28, 2024

martinson said:
I'm not sure if Logan will see it out this year 3KZ but he seems to have an awful lot of footy smarts given his experience.

Just looks a natural when he gets near it . But I wouldn't be expecting his output to be anything special for a while yet.

Still worth pumping games into given where we're at.

You and I have been around long enough and seen plenty of footballers. You used the word ‘natural’ and that is exactly what sets Logan Morris apart from Rayner, and Hipwood for that matter. Logan Morris is 1cm shorter than Brody Mihocek and he is going to be as valuable to us as Mihocek is to Collingwood in coming years. Logan is showing great composure and an enormous amount of promise. Watch this space, Logan Morris is our next Daniel Bradshaw.

In: Hipwood, Lyons
Out: Rayner, Sharp

Lions Flag 2020 · May 28, 2024

In Hipwood
Out Ryan

This will be the change unless starce is fit too

martinson · May 28, 2024

3KZ is Football said:
You and I have been around long enough and seen plenty of footballers. You used the word ‘natural’ and that is exactly what sets Logan Morris apart from Rayner, and Hipwood for that matter. Logan Morris is 1cm shorter than Brody Mihocek and he is going to be as valuable to us as Mihocek is to Collingwood in coming years. Logan is showing great composure and an enormous amount of promise. Watch this space, Logan Morris is our next Daniel Bradshaw.

In: Hipwood, Lyons
Out: Rayner, Sharp

I'm starting to feel sorry for Cam seeing everyone has decided to get stuck in to him and I've been one of the worst culprits for a while.

He'd be feeling it.

Let's give him a little more slack. I honestly think a spell in the 2's could be the making of him but that's never going to happen so at least put him into the game and see if he can give us a spark because ffs we need it. If that doesn't work after a couple of games then hammer him in the off season and work out a Plan B.

davemc_lions · May 28, 2024

Cam will have a great game next up.. Every time it gets to a point where he might be dropped
He plays a good game

Sherrinator · May 29, 2024

Please drop Bailey

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