Review Round 15, 2015 - Brisbane Lions vs Sydney

[luthor]

When we go to the cricket (or even when we watch it on TV) it's not only acceptable to refer to our English rivals as "Poms" but this highly pejorative term is regularly used by the media and popular press.

Not just the cricket. We love belting the "Poms" at everything

"Booing" the "Poms" is a national sport.

Yet if we boo an Indigenous sportsman we are condemned by the same popular press as "racist".

Am I alone in my wonderment at the the irony of at all.

 

[jackess]

When we go to the cricket (or even when we watch it on TV) it's not only acceptable to refer to our English rivals as "Poms" but this highly pejorative term is regularly used by the media and popular press.

Not just the cricket. We love belting the "Poms" at everything

"Booing" the "Poms" is a national sport.

Yet if we boo an Indigenous sportsman we are condemned by the same popular press as "racist".

Am I alone in my wonderment at the the irony of at all.

I'm not sure if anyone in the AFL has ever been booed as consistently as Goodes has been this season. He hasn't done anything to deserve the amount of booing he's received.

 

[Elixuh]

When we go to the cricket (or even when we watch it on TV) it's not only acceptable to refer to our English rivals as "Poms" but this highly pejorative term is regularly used by the media and popular press.

Not just the cricket. We love belting the "Poms" at everything

"Booing" the "Poms" is a national sport.

Yet if we boo an Indigenous sportsman we are condemned by the same popular press as "racist".

Am I alone in my wonderment at the the irony of at all.

The booing of a group of people vs the booing of an individual within a team (to the extent that Goodes has been) is distinctly different and cannot be compared I would have thought.

 

[karix]

I think it's more the forwards not leading. What else can the midfielders do if the forwards are standing there not trying to get separation? It's been a problem for a while now.

Knowing when and where to lead makes one hell of a difference, especially when your a young Key Forward that doesn't yet have the strength to out muscles your opponent.

I sound like a broken record, but young forwards will struggle to provide well timed leads if we continue to slow down the ball coming out of defence (giving the opposition defence to get back and get structure) due to basic skill errors, fumbles and poor decision making.

It's very hard to know when to lead when we come out of defence in a disjointed fashion, or if we insist on coming at a steady pace up the wing and give opposition defenders time to fill the space. Because we transition into attack slowly there is very little room to lead into in the forward line. Compare that to Sydney a couple of times who went backwards quite aggressively to get us to spread our zone so they could re-enter F50 on their terms and with a bit of space for their forwards to work in.

Champion/power forwards have the confidence and experience to read the play better and their presence is an anchor for the rest of the forward line to work around. Just look at Rog at the other end of the ground as an example. When you add an experienced key position defender our whole backline looks more settled, capable and confident. We don't have that in the forward line at the moment, so if we want our young forwards to perform well our ball movement in transition needs to improve. Until that happens you can't blame the forwards for missing their opportunities without also mentioning the midfield.

 

[dlanod]

Watched the game again tonight with my old man and a mate from work. Astounded with the biased commentary from Gerard Healey and Brad Johnson!!
Brisbane weren't playing well but Sydney losing grip on the game (was around half way through the second)
That was just one of many instance where I thought commentary to be blatantly one sided.

Healy's an ex-Sydney player so there's never a real surprise there. So many commentators don't bother to leave their barracking at the door, which is insanely frustrating oh so often.

 

[Ceebee]

Watched the game again tonight with my old man and a mate from work. Astounded with the biased commentary from Gerard Healey and Brad Johnson!!
Brisbane weren't playing well but Sydney losing grip on the game (was around half way through the second)
That was just one of many instance where I thought commentary to be blatantly one sided.

Happens all the time Robbo.

Sometimes when it is really bad. you just turn the sound to mute.
Huddo is usually very good and I don't mind Mooney on the boundary.

 

[lukiuslion]

When we go to the cricket (or even when we watch it on TV) it's not only acceptable to refer to our English rivals as "Poms" but this highly pejorative term is regularly used by the media and popular press.

Not just the cricket. We love belting the "Poms" at everything

"Booing" the "Poms" is a national sport.

Yet if we boo an Indigenous sportsman we are condemned by the same popular press as "racist".

Am I alone in my wonderment at the the irony of at all.

I think we are wasting our time debating this. But in reality, modern racism is defined by the notion of the majority enforcing the idea they are superior upon a minority.

This whole, 'but it's not racist if they call us white bastards' thing going on in forums and on Facebook is so silly. Racism is about oppression of a minority.

When we jeer the 'bloody poms' that is us essentially jeering our master, in a sense - we are the minority. We cannot oppress them because they are larger than us, population, power, world standing.. It's like teasing our father as a "silly old man" - and we are both of the same race anyway!? Lol, generally.. as we share Anglo origin.

When we jeer, boo or abuse an aboriginal man, we do so as the majority, therefore we do so in a weak fashion, 1000 on to 1, we use our power structure in society to alienate them, they are a minority, they are susceptible to the majority enforcing their power upon them.

Is there an issue with one person having an opinion on Adam Goodes and the way he dives for free kicks? No.. Is there an issue with one person taking exception to his politics.. No, is it ok to disagree he deserved Australian of the year.. Yes it's fine, is it ok for hundreds of thousands of white Australians to actively and continually boo him for reasons still unknown, no.. It's probley a form of ongoing oppression by the majority.

Jobe Watson gets boo'd every game he plays, but as he is white and not a minority, he doesen't have to leave the ground wondering if it's his race that is the reason he is being subjected to abuse, Adam Goodes does, and in a modern, educated society.. The onus is on the majority to be aware of the power they have over the minority, not visa versa, we have the benefits of being the majority, one of the cons is we have to be aware that we need to not oppress or outcast the minorities in our society.

Racism is about power structure and the oppression of minority's and our the notion of superiority by the majority, a minority pretty much can't be racist. therefore it is not racism for us to jeer the poms. Lol

Having said that, I'm not a fan of the way Goodes plays and damned if I'm going to bite my tounge when it comes to football, the booing thing is 50% blind crowd participation, 20% 'I've never liked that smug prick'.. 20%... 'you can't tell me not to boo and abos '.. 10% 'I hate ****ing abos'.. So dammed if I'm gunner sit there and boo, if there's a risk the crowd around me, or my son or daughter can possibly confuse me as that last 10%.

 

[Skoob]

Wow, lukiuslion , without a smidgen of sarcasm or irony, that is most articulate, accurate, sensible well thought out and expressed post, not just that I've read of yours, but ever on this topic.

 

[Skoob]

I can see where you are coming from but to me you are somewhat over-analysing the situation. I think perhaps 1 in a thousand would be booing because they are racists. Those people's actions speak for themselves.
For the rest of us there are plenty of non-race related reasons to boo at the footy. We boo at the umpires, we boo Chris Judd, we boo Elliot Yeo, and yes, at Adam Goodes. Its not because people have a desperate need to feel superior for a few seconds.
Adam is a grown up who gets paid incredibly well to kick a ball. I find his need to dance his war dance and cry and finger point at 14 year old girls makes him somewhat resemble a princess, and therefore I can make fun of him while he is on the football field. It really is theatre, all of it.

Unfortunately Carlo, these last 2 lines demonstrate you have no idea of the harm and wrong of 'casual' racism.

 

[knaf]

Great post Lukiuslion. I have been trying to stay out of this discussion.

But I am going to call Bull**** to people who say booing Goodes has nothing to do with racism. Australia is a racist society but nothing upsets Australians more than stating the fact. I am a whitefella who works in Aboriginal affairs. In my comfortable middle class environment I am continually shocked at the blatantly racist stuff that comes out of people's mouths as soon as I tell people where I work.

Goodes is a proud Aboriginal man who has called people on racism and people don't like it.

Can we get back to discussing football now.

 

[cotter101]

Not that I've boo'd Goodes at a game before, but I was up in Sydney with my wife and kids about 2 years ago. Goodes bumped into my wife and tried to make a bit of a scene out of it. Politely told him to move on and he just looked at me like we was above me or something. I'd always like'd him before that. Now I think, Champion player, shit bloke.

Never liked the bloke since.

 

[Skoob]

Pardon the pun, but the 'Goodes/booing/race' debate is not as simple as black & white.
Those saying all booing of Goodes is racist are one extreme, and those that say there is nothing racist going on are the other extreme. There is a fair mixture of reasons in between and overlapping. As mentioned earlier, it is just easier not to and avoid being lumped with those who consciously or sub-consciously are motivated by racial implications.
If the nett result is that no-one boos Goodes for any reason, then that's not a bad outcome.

 

[lukiuslion]

Wow, lukiuslion , without a smidgen of sarcasm or irony, that is most articulate, accurate, sensible well thought out and expressed post, not just that I've read of yours, but ever on this topic.

Cheers Mate, shame there was a bunch of mistakes in it, I just fixed some of them up. It's not an easy issue, don't get me started on 'reverse racism' that is just as complicated, and as the majority, us arm chair 'humanists' can be just as guilty as that. My post probley had sprinklings of it through out, majority, automatic oppression through actions, placing the minority as a dis-empowered victim etc - there's no clear cut answer to the debate, but I am pretty sure the boo'ing thing has become symbolic of a 'We are allowed to oppress and victimise indigenous footballers if we want, you can't stop us' - which could be viewed as racism. IMO. And hating on him for pointing out a racist spectator as a 'cry baby' etc, is mind boggling.

 

[CarloLion]

Unfortunately Carlo, these last 2 lines demonstrate you have no idea of the harm and wrong of 'casual' racism.

I have literally no idea what you are talking about. Perhaps you think that proves your point, but your comment makes no sense.

 

[CarloLion]

I think we are wasting our time debating this. But in reality, modern racism is defined by the notion of the majority enforcing the idea they are superior upon a minority.

This whole, 'but it's not racist if they call us white bastards' thing going on in forums and on Facebook is so silly. Racism is about oppression of a minority.

When we jeer the 'bloody poms' that is us essentially jeering our master, in a sense - we are the minority. We cannot oppress them because they are larger than us, population, power, world standing.. It's like teasing our father as a "silly old man" - and we are both of the same race anyway!? Lol, generally.. as we share Anglo origin.

When we jeer, boo or abuse an aboriginal man, we do so as the majority, therefore we do so in a weak fashion, 1000 on to 1, we use our power structure in society to alienate them, they are a minority, they are susceptible to the majority enforcing their power upon them.

Is there an issue with one person having an opinion on Adam Goodes and the way he dives for free kicks? No.. Is there an issue with one person taking exception to his politics.. No, is it ok to disagree he deserved Australian of the year.. Yes it's fine, is it ok for hundreds of thousands of white Australians to actively and continually boo him for reasons still unknown, no.. It's probley a form of ongoing oppression by the majority.

Jobe Watson gets boo'd every game he plays, but as he is white and not a minority, he doesen't have to leave the ground wondering if it's his race that is the reason he is being subjected to abuse, Adam Goodes does, and in a modern, educated society.. The onus is on the majority to be aware of the power they have over the minority, not visa versa, we have the benefits of being the majority, one of the cons is we have to be aware that we need to not oppress or outcast the minorities in our society.

Racism is about power structure and the oppression of minority's and our the notion of superiority by the majority, a minority pretty much can't be racist. therefore it is not racism for us to jeer the poms. Lol

Having said that, I'm not a fan of the way Goodes plays and damned if I'm going to bite my tounge when it comes to football, the booing thing is 50% blind crowd participation, 20% 'I've never liked that smug prick'.. 20%... 'you can't tell me not to boo and abos '.. 10% 'I hate ******* abos'.. So dammed if I'm gunner sit there and boo, if there's a risk the crowd around me, or my son or daughter can possibly confuse me as that last 10%.

So how do people feel about the guys in our weekly locker talk segment saying 'Tiddle dee dee Pertayters' and having a go at Pearce in this weeks locker talk segment?

What if we had a Chinese bloke on the list and the locker talk segment involved saying chinese stereotypes in a mock asian accent? Uproar.

Our society's opinion of what racism is is so completely out of whack.

Racism is about directing anger, hatred or a sense of self-superiority at another race. Period. Its either ok to make fun of Poms, Irish, Chinese and Aboriginals in a lighthearted way or its not ok do do it ever.

 

[Robbo18!]

Happens all the time Robbo.

Sometimes when it is really bad. you just turn the sound to mute.
Huddo is usually very good and I don't mind Mooney on the boundary.

Yep
Huddo was fine.
Gerard Healy.......... Was crap
(Understand he was a Sydney player) but fair dinkum his commentary against us was terrible. At one stage he was all over Keiran Jack saying he was really getting a lot of the ball and taking hold of the game, it was nearly alf time and he'd had a total of 7 touches.
Getting senile I reckon

 

[Bucking Beads]

Pardon the pun, but the 'Goodes/booing/race' debate is not as simple as black & white.
Those saying all booing of Goodes is racist are one extreme, and those that say there is nothing racist going on are the other extreme. There is a fair mixture of reasons in between and overlapping. As mentioned earlier, it is just easier not to and avoid being lumped with those who consciously or sub-consciously are motivated by racial implications.
If the nett result is that no-one boos Goodes for any reason, then that's not a bad outcome.

We are a pretty racist country from what I have seen

 

[Tairy Greene]

I have literally no idea what you are talking about. Perhaps you think that proves your point, but your comment makes no sense.

I think then you should do some research into casual racism if you're unaware of what it is.

 

[CarloLion]

I think then you should do some research into casual racism if you're unaware of what it is.

Well aware of the repercussions and effects of casual racism. Well aware that it grinds people down over time, makes them angry and bitter and is deeply unfair. I just disagree with Adam's reaction to it on the public stage and have no idea of the point of his post.

 

[Tairy Greene]

Well aware of the repercussions and effects of casual racism. Well aware that it grinds people down over time, makes them angry and bitter and is deeply unfair. I just disagree with Adam's reaction to it on the public stage and have no idea of the point of his post.

You disagree with Goodes' reaction to racist remarks? What an odd thing to say.

 

[CarloLion]

You disagree with Goodes' reaction to racist remarks? What an odd thing to say.

Yep, I disagree with his dance and the way he reacted to the young girl. That's ok isnt it?

 

[lukiuslion]

So how do people feel about the guys in our weekly locker talk segment saying 'Tiddle dee dee Pertayters' and having a go at Pearce in this weeks locker talk segment?

What if we had a Chinese bloke on the list and the locker talk segment involved saying chinese stereotypes in a mock asian accent? Uproar.

Our society's opinion of what racism is is so completely out of whack.

Racism is about directing anger, hatred or a sense of self-superiority at another race. Period. Its either ok to make fun of Poms, Irish, Chinese and Aboriginals in a lighthearted way or its not ok do do it ever.

Racism has nothing to do with who is the 'larger group' its about

I totally disagree - The definition of race is a social construct or a group of people who share similar and distinct physical characteristics and common language.

Irish, Poms, White Australians are of the same 'race' - so.. Josh Green can't really be racist to Pearce Hanely, he can be culturally insensitive which could be argued is 'not on' also, but by definition - can't really be 'racist'. I think the reason there is so much confusion on this topic is there is an inherent misunderstanding of racism in Australia.

The white-Anglo race is the majority in this country, whether it's Irish, English, white Australian.. (white/ anglo basically). Chinese, Aboriginal would be a minority as a racial grouping, and of a different 'race' to the majority, as a social construct, so therefore can only suffer oppression and racism from the white majority. That's why if a member of the white anglo Majority, chooses to oppress, demoralise, outcast and member of the already established minority in our country it is racism.

Sorry that's the last I will post on this issue, I don't know what's right or wrong about the Goodes issue, but I feel I have a decent grasp on racism, and there is a common mis-understanding that runs throughout his debate in AFL football that makes it hard to argue at times..

 

[Tairy Greene]

Yep, I disagree with his dance and the way he reacted to the young girl. That's ok isnt it?

Soooo... Goodes immediately pointing out someone (who he had no idea the age of) calling him a racially derogatory name, in Indigenous Round, is not ok? He should just cop anything that comes his way?

And puh-lease, that war dance was rad as hell (which again he only did in Indigenous Round), Inglis does his goanna crawl and it's dope and adds to the spectacle. You've been saying booing Goodes is all part of the theatre yet he should not have a right of reply? ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED!?

 

[CarloLion]

I totally disagree - The definition of race is a social construct or a group of people who share similar and distinct physical characteristics and common language.

Irish, Poms, White Australians are of the same 'race' - so.. Josh Green can't really be racist to Pearce Hanely, he can be culturally insensitive which could be argued is 'not on' also, but by definition - can't really be 'racist'. I think the reason there is so much confusion on this topic is there is an inherent misunderstanding of racism in Australia.

The white-Anglo race is the majority in this country, whether it's Irish, English, white Australian.. (white/ anglo basically). Chinese, Aboriginal would be a minority as a racial grouping, and of a different 'race' to the majority, as a social construct, so therefore can only suffer oppression and racism from the white majority. That's why if a member of the white anglo Majority, chooses to oppress, demoralise, outcast and member of the already established minority in our country it is racism.

Sorry that's the last I will post on this issue, I don't know what's right or wrong about the Goodes issue, but I feel I have a decent grasp on racism, and there is a common mis-understanding that runs throughout his debate in AFL football that makes it hard to argue at times..

Fair points. I dont quite agree with all you say, however, but will also cease posting on this issue

 

[Sherrinator]

Goodes is black? Thought he was Arabian.