Autopsy Round 15, 2021: Richmond v St.Kilda *CONNOLLY DEBUT*

[Enclosed_Animal]

All this talk about Gresh is making me very excited for next season. If he can remain on the park I honestly think the sky’s the limit. He’s 23, is proven quality and hopefully will be playing in a capable side for the first time in his career.

I find it so easy to just be numb and forget about how many quality players we have out injured, but my god, they could be serious points of difference next year, IMO

Put it this way, we have played 10 minutes with Steele, Gresh, Crouch & Jones in the same team. Ever!

Until that group actually play a game with Paddy and Marshall, we genuinely have NFI what we have in terms of a midfield.

If 2 or 3 of Clark, Dunstan, Hanners, Ross, Byrnes, Bytel or our 2021 first rounder can elevate into that group and perform regularly, we might be cooking

But have to get them all on the park first!

 

[St Kilda Death]

Yeah that's a better comparison. I was just thinking about our club. They both play inside mid, are shocking field kicks, but get enough of the ball. Gresh is just more damaging in front of goal. I would say De Goey is ahead of Gresh but yes again both similar.

I would take gresh over degoey any day.
Label that saints bias by me, but my best mate goes for pies and would agree.

 

[snails13]

It's a clear no I think. I think that his role now is useful for the team and I'm happy he is playing so well but I don't see it as a long term thing. The club acknowledged in the Q&A that we are good for contest work and short on spread at the moment. Jones and Gresham slot straight back into the midfield when fit and I don't see a role for Dunstan. Steele and Crouch are the inside options. Jones and Gresham a mix of inside and out. Byrnes looks really promising as a zippy mid who can find the footy. I still think the best case scenario for Dunstan is to go to a club like Carlton and play as a permanent inside mid.

If Spook can play 3 or 4 more good games before season's end,and our recruiters still feel it's time to offload him,then a least we should now get something for him.
6 weeks ago he was a certain Delist.

 

[Saintbloke]

I think a fit Gresh would be better value in the forward line than Butler

 

[Ducky Tie]

If Spook can play 3 or 4 more good games before season's end,and our recruiters still feel it's time to offload him,then a least we should now get something for him.
6 weeks ago he was a certain Delist.

I still don't see him being worth any more than maybe a third rounder with the current compensation system, but something is better than nothing. I probably would prefer to keep him for situations like these where he is valuable depth, but I think for him it would be best to move on.

 

[kernelT]

Put it this way, we have played 10 minutes with Steele, Gresh, Crouch & Jones in the same team. Ever!

Even the combination of Gresham, Jones & Ryder we've only seen for about 6 full games.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Nah not really. He played 15 games last year with these averages.
View attachment 1167099
If you think a HBF who was moved around and averaged just over 12 touches for just under 3 clangers per game wasn't at risk of being dropped I have news for you.

Ben was no.1 at the club for intercept possessions last year.

So he was literally our best at winning the ball off the opposition, which is one of the most important things you can do on a football field.

If he had have been in so much danger of losing his spot then he would have, as we had Sav and Robbo breathing down his neck all year, yet he was never dropped for them.

 

[Crusty Undies]

Ben was no.1 at the club for intercept possessions last year.

So he was literally our best at winning the ball off the opposition, which is one of the most important things you can do on a football field.

If he had have been in so much danger of losing his spot then he would have, as we had Sav and Robbo breathing down his neck all year, yet he was never dropped for them.

Righto.

 

[gringo2011]

Ben was no.1 at the club for intercept possessions last year.

So he was literally our best at winning the ball off the opposition, which is one of the most important things you can do on a football field.

If he had have been in so much danger of losing his spot then he would have, as we had Sav and Robbo breathing down his neck all year, yet he was never dropped for them.

He didn't look particularly intercepting. Was he playing as a more loose spare?

 

[Ducky Tie]

He didn't look particularly intercepting. Was he playing as a more loose spare?

There's intercept marks and intercept possessions. Long averaged 1 intercept mark a game in 2020 and 6 intercept possessions. It gets referenced a lot that he led the team for intercepts last year, but it is a touch misleading. Clubs that set up from intercepts do so through intercept marking (ala May/Lever, McGovern/Barrass etc). Intercept marking has become increasingly important to setting up scoring as it can allow you to control field position and have clean ball control. Long getting five in-play intercepts a game is well and good, but it does not give that same control. Lots of those intercepts would be in a scrap in congestion where he picks up a ground ball or where he beats his opponent to a ground ball. That's good, but it is not an intercept mark and it is not what coaches refer to when setting up from intercept marks. Long had a solid season last year, and earned his spot, but this notion that he was a great interceptor is fairly misleading.

 

[StCicatriz]

It's been strange all year. I found it a bit concerning at the Q&A last week when Ratten said that they don't want Howard to be taking most of the kick outs and that they've been talking to Dougal about it on an ongoing basis. Reading between the lines, I'm taking that as an indication that Dougal is a very strong personality who isn't great at sharing the load with these types of things. I love his energy and how vocal he is, but it's been weird all season and is one of the many small issues that has taken too long to be rectified.

that was strange

 

[kernelT]

that was strange

Sounds like utter chaos tbh. Wtf.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Jones is our most dynamic IMO. Gresham is a good mid but an excellent small forward. He won multiple games for us as a forward. I'd use him like De Goey, Petracca or Dusty. Mostly forward but wth runs on ball.

In my recollection Gresh has had his most productive and damaging games when playing mid & running forward. His 5 goals v Tiges in late 2019 being a prime example.

He hasn’t actually played much as a small forward since his first few years anyway.

Jonesy & Gresh are absolute keys to our midfield… they give us the spark & dash we need to be a top 6 challenger.


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[Winmar2Lockett]

I think a fit Gresh would be better value in the forward line than Butler

Gresh has never had a season playing as a small forward like Butler had last year.


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[bird_man]

Gresh has never had a season playing as a small forward like Butler had last year.


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He's been pretty close though.

Averaged 17 touches and 1.7 goals in just his third year.

Butler was 10 touches and 1.6 Last year (in less game time)

It's fair to suggest after the way Greshams first 3 years as a small forward were tracking he was going to be close to AA quality.

 

[Tyrian Lonestar]

Gresh has never had a season playing as a small forward like Butler had last year.


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Have seen Gresh have shots on goal a number of times where he lacks penetration on the kick.

 

[SAINTsincebirth]

Thanks for sharing, very interesting.

Funnily enough, I was thinking about Dunstan last night and how his career has had quite a strange trajectory until, what I consider to be his greatest game for the club last night for a few reasons (played on Dusty largely, spent a lot of time on the ground, won a lot of contested possessions and cracked 30 touches…. one of the most compete games from a mid we’ve seen competition-wide this year).

1. Started his career like a shot out of a gun. Was the poster boy for what Richo wanted in a footballer: “strong in the contest” from day 1. Was so impressive that he was given Lenny’s number 7 jumper, enough said.
2. From year 1 for the next couple of years, he didn’t develop well for a variety of reasons. He had serious shoulder problems, and his lack of tank wasn’t allowing him to stay out there long enough to elevate his game to the next level.
3. There were a couple of other interesting things I recall from interviews with him that are worth noting. The first is when, after he had been out of form for awhile and come back with some stronger performances, he said something along the lines of “I went to a sports psych and worked out I should forget about game plans and instructions from coaches, and just play on instinct.”
   
   The other interesting comment was when he mentioned in an interview not longafter Playfair was appointed that the team was finally playing with a defensive structure now and that they “hadn’t really had a structure” before then. For me, his two comments were a not-too-subtle whack at the coaches. I’m sure it didn’t go unnoticed by them either. For me, it really impressed me and showed he is brave enough to speak up, and intelligent enough to know that what we were serving up would get us nowhere. He’s EXACTLY the sort of leader we need for the young blokes but I feel he was sidelined back then after these comments.

You watch his interview after his performance last night and he just oozes leadership. The way he confidently speaks about the game and the team and his teammates is so impressive. We NEED confident guys with this group.

Lastly, besides the crucial things you mentioned about Dunstan focusing on what he can do rather than what he can’t, the major factor in him turning out such a dominant game as last night is that I finally feel his tank allows him to spend more time out there and, this is the crucial thing with him, not be as gassed when he is out there so he makes better decisions and lessens his skill errors.

Dunstan becoming the player we all hoped would potentially give us so much. It would give us a heart-and-soul player we drafted leading the way. It would give us a confident intelligent leader out there on the field. And, in tandem with Crouch and Steele, it would give us a midfield that would excel in winning contested footy. Good luck coming up against those three playing like they did last night, no matter whether you’re Dusty or anyone else.

I remember reading how when he was injured he was helping coach the ladies team and they all talked up how good he was. Maybe something clicked along with his fitness.

 

[George]

Gresh has never had a season playing as a small forward like Butler had last year.


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Lol, 65 goals over 2 seasons rotating between forward and mid

 

[George]

 

[Roo Ted 77]

 

[gringo2011]

Have seen Gresh have shots on goal a number of times where he lacks penetration on the kick.

He's a poor set shot but a great snap kick. He's got worse since he stopped playing as a permanent forward as well. His goals under Richo turned matches our way. He is a proper match winner up front. If I had my way he would play forward predominantly, he was a freak.

 

[SAINTsincebirth]

It's a clear no I think. I think that his role now is useful for the team and I'm happy he is playing so well but I don't see it as a long term thing. The club acknowledged in the Q&A that we are good for contest work and short on spread at the moment. Jones and Gresham slot straight back into the midfield when fit and I don't see a role for Dunstan. Steele and Crouch are the inside options. Jones and Gresham a mix of inside and out. Byrnes looks really promising as a zippy mid who can find the footy. I still think the best case scenario for Dunstan is to go to a club like Carlton and play as a permanent inside mid.

Didn't he have the most meters gained??? maybe he has improved his negative points and become more rounded.

 

[Ducky Tie]

Didn't he have the most meters gained??? maybe he has improved his negative points and become more rounded.

His kicking and decision making is something I'd be surprised if it improved very much. What is encouraging though is his game time. As some have pointed out, he's up around 85-90% game time after hovering in the low 70s for most of his career. Suggests his fitness is at an elite level now.

 

[hayes]

Gresh is another one who started out as a classy kick for his first few years but that’s dropped off big time the past couple of seasons. What’s meant to happen is players are meant to improve in that area but for some reason here it goes the opposite.

I’d be more worried about actually getting him on the park before worrying about where he plays first but if he is out there I’d be giving him the 2019-20 Gary Ablett HF/mid role.

 

[hayes]