Preview Round 16, 2023 - Brisbane Lions vs. Richmond

[p4p1]

Tbh the more I read this the more confused I am at your response. Are you trying to rebuke my opinion? If so I’d suggest actually responding to my concerns instead of posting something we both agree on? Cus I Never said he can’t shut down players… he’s arguably the best in the business. I suggested his disposals aren’t great. Totally different … right?

But you still called him the weak link of our backline when he is clearly one of best defenders overall. He is susceptible to a turnover every now and then but IIRC he also consistently covers more ground than almost anyone else in our team. I would be surprised if there wasn't a correlation between ground covered and turn overs per possession. He is normally under immense pressure whenever he is getting a kick.

 

[p4p1]

I

The issue I had with Bailey is his defensive presence around the middle of the ground has been pretty poor, especially his tacking. This is something that he's not alone in, I find Neale has similar issues. It's a symptom of them being smaller mids.

When they can use their speed to pressure from behind it's not as noticable as the player can't easily sidestep them. But when tackling from the front you have to make sure you stop the player you are targeting from keeping the ball moving forward. An arm out tackle that gets broken creates overlap and doesn't allow run from behind to pressure that next receiver, as you are now a man down Infront of the ball.

He's not alone in this, but I noticed it a few times in that second half where he made the wrong choice when being in the middle of the ground trying to stop the wave of players moving through.

I think that is pretty common among most teams #1 mid, they have more of a license to not be accountable defensively. I don't think teams can afford to carry two of those types of mids on the field at the same time. I don't think it is a symptom of them being smaller, some smaller guys have been excellent defensively (though I am sure more size would help), rather an intent and mindset. Look how great Charlie has been defensively this year and its all down to intent.

 

[Section 5]

They got Gunston in to be the 3rd real tall. Using Jo as ruck relief.
That has not worked out as they anticipated.
Will they go back to the McStay situation last year having a 3rd tall that can also be used in the ruck.
Or do they use Rayner as the 3rd tall.
Both have positives and negatives.

Tomorrow nights selection will give us a better indication on which way they want to go.

 

[p4p1]

They got Gunston in to be the 3rd real tall. Using Jo as ruck relief.
That has not worked out as they anticipated.
Will they go back to the McStay situation last year having a 3rd tall that can also be used in the ruck.
Or do they use Rayner as the 3rd tall.
Both have positives and negatives.

Tomorrow nights selection will give us a better indication on which way they want to go.

I feel that part of the reason that McStay worked as a third tall was because he is a really athletic guy who covered a lot of ground. I'm not saying he is a great footballer but his mobility IMO helped the 3 talls work.
IIRC when we had the 3 talls in the premiership era (different style era obs), Browny covered a lot of ground and wasn't often in the same space as Lynchy or Bradshaw unless he was coming back with the flight taking mark of the year.

 

[BRAB]

I agree. He either plays him or he doesn’t. If you think tactics and game plan - Fagan has got himself into a pickle completely of his own making.

Fagan was happy to play with three tall forwards as part of the game plan when Gunston was getting selected. That tactical approach may have been an absolute winner, but Gunston was in such terrible form, he was not able to be relied upon to execute it. So what does Fagan do? Gunston goes and so it appears does the three tall forward game plan. Rather than sticking with the tactical approach that was the basis of our forward structure, Fagan equivocates. The club has invested time and energy into Tom Fullerton, who at 24 years of age and 200cm is ready to make an impact, but despite good form in the reserves, he is not selected. Remember in the Semi Final against Melbourne last year? Daniher couldn’t play and Fullerton came straight in, but now it seems Fagan’s three tall forward line is only a ‘thing’ when Gunston is available. It is a forward structure that seems to only be required when Fagan can select Gunston and nobody else. That’s why selecting Fort as a sub is such a weak choice. It’s like Fagan is only half committed to his previous structure. Fagan has also painted himself into a corner where Daniher is forced to ruck, which leaves us with one tall forward for parts of games. Not ideal.

So here is the thing, let’s imagine Gunston gets himself fit and Fagan, who I don’t think will require much convincing, decides to put him back into the senior side. You don’t need to be Nostradamus to work out what happens next. Yep, you guessed it, suddenly Fagan dusts off the Three Tall Forward structure to accommodate his old mate Gunston. The message here is simple, Fagan would be letting the ‘tail wag the dog’ by organising the whole forward line around how he can find a spot for a tall forward who will be 32 this year and who he signed to a multi-year deal. As for Fullerton, the message from Fagan appears to be there is no room in the seniors for you anymore, irrespective of your form or my former game plan. Same goes for you Fort.

This is just bad coaching.

We've played three talls in our forward line well before Gunston was a lion though so it's probably more Fagan just sticking to a structure too long than a a deliberate attempt to justify keeping his favourite players in.

Fagan has said previously that he had a bad dream about a tall getting injured and this is why Fort is the sub.

 

[On the quiet]

I thought Fort looked a little pedestrian last week. I think it might be time to give Tom a game this week and next week against the Eagles to see if we want to play three genuine talls. IMO Fullarton more a forward/ruck. With His powerful leap Cam can play as a third tall, but give Tom a few games so we can judge where he is at, especially as he is OOC this year.

 

[Clarkythelion]

Cumberland is the one I'm more worried about than Hopper. He will be a star

Didn't he give us a touch up once before, picked 4 or so on us - maybe?

 

[Quested]

I'd love to see a bit more of Lyons, but just can't see it happening unless injury to Neale or Dunks. Pretty happy seeing some games into the younger ones so wouldn't mind seeing Fullerton, Madden or Sharp get some more seniors time too. Fletcher to stay though please.

 

[Viceregal]

Not this game but it doesn't look like there is a lot of expectation on the Eagles' getting a win over us ...

 

[Section 5]

PLAYER	INJURY	ESTIMATED RETURN
Rhys Mathieson 36 Rhys Mathieson Age 27 Ht 186cm Wt 86kg Pos. M/F Career Season Last 5 D 17.1 4star K 7.9 3star HB 9.2 5star M 2.9 3star T 3.4 5star CL 3.4 5star No current season stats available D 18.4 5star K 9.4 4star HB 9.0 5star M 2.2 3star T 4.0 5star CL 2.8 5star	Hamstring	2 weeks
Carter Michael	Quad	1-2 weeks
Dayne Zorko 15 Dayne Zorko Age 35 Ht 175cm Wt 77kg Pos. M/F Career Season Last 5 D 21.4 5star K 13.2 5star HB 8.2 5star M 3.6 4star T 6.0 5star CL 3.6 5star D 14.0 3star K 9.0 4star HB 5.0 3star M 2.0 2star T 5.0 5star CL 2.0 4star D 16.4 4star K 9.8 4star HB 6.6 4star M 5.2 5star T 6.6 5star CL 1.2 4star	Calf	Test
Updated: June 27, 2023

Early prognosis​

Zorko was put through his paces at Tuesday's main training session, but the Lions are yet to decide whether he'll be available to face Richmond on Thursday night. Mathieson jogged a number of laps on Tuesday before joining the main group and is nearing a return. – Michael Whiting

 

[Section 5]

PLAYER	INJURY	ESTIMATED RETURN
Seth Campbell	Adductor	1-3 weeks
Mate Colina	Back	7-12 weeks
Noah Cumberland	Calf	Test
Josh Gibcus	Hamstring	4-6 weeks
Jacob Hopper 22 Jacob Hopper Age 27 Ht 187cm Wt 86kg Pos. Mid Career Season Last 5 D 21.0 5star K 9.9 4star HB 11.1 5star M 2.9 3star T 4.5 5star CL 4.3 5star D 17.6 4star K 8.8 4star HB 8.9 4star M 2.4 3star T 4.6 5star CL 4.0 5star D 18.6 5star K 8.4 4star HB 10.2 5star M 4.0 4star T 3.8 5star CL 3.4 5star	Calf	Test
Tom Lynch	Foot	7-12 weeks
Rhyan Mansell	Suspension	Round 18
Dion Prestia 3 Dion Prestia Age 31 Ht 175cm Wt 84kg Pos. Mid Career Season Last 5 D 24.1 5star K 12.7 5star HB 11.4 5star M 3.1 3star T 4.4 5star CL 4.6 5star D 21.2 5star K 10.4 4star HB 10.8 5star M 2.4 3star T 4.2 5star CL 3.2 4star D 12.8 4star K 6.0 3star HB 6.8 5star M 3.2 4star T 3.0 5star CL 1.4 4star	Calf	1-3 weeks
Samson Ryan	Ankle	Test
Kaleb Smith	Ankle	Season
Robbie Tarrant 6 Robbie Tarrant Age 35 Ht 196cm Wt 96kg Pos. Def Career Season Last 5 D 14.5 4star K 9.4 4star HB 5.1 4star M 5.3 5star T 1.8 4star MG 284.7 4star D 15.1 4star K 11.9 5star HB 3.3 2star M 4.1 4star T 1.5 2star MG 359.3 5star D 11.0 3star K 6.4 3star HB 4.6 4star M 2.6 3star T 2.4 4star	Hip	Indefinite
Updated: June 27, 2023

Early prognosis​

Cumberland, Hopper and Ryan are tests after the team's bye, but Prestia has been added to the injury list with another soft-tissue issue. Marlion Pickett should now be available for selection. – Sarah Black

 

[Nathan Barley]

PLAYER	INJURY	ESTIMATED RETURN
Rhys Mathieson	Hamstring	2 weeks
Carter Michael	Quad	1-2 weeks
Dayne Zorko	Calf	Test
Updated: June 27, 2023

Early prognosis​

Zorko was put through his paces at Tuesday's main training session, but the Lions are yet to decide whether he'll be available to face Richmond on Thursday night. Mathieson jogged a number of laps on Tuesday before joining the main group and is nearing a return. – Michael Whiting

Fullarton and Cocky have done hammies

Check the Lions website

 

[3KZ is Football]

Fullarton and Cocky have done hammies

Check the Lions website

Thanks for the update.

 

[MSB ROYS]

Pity about those injuries...

 

[Section 5]

Fullarton and Cocky have done hammies

Check the Lions website

They both came off the field during the VFL game.
Bad luck for both.
I wonder if the Richmond one i posted will change

INJURY LIST

• Dayne Zorko (calf) – Test
• Nakia Cockatoo (hamstring) – 1-2 weeks
• Tom Fullarton (hamstring) – 2-3 weeks
• Rhys Mathieson (hamstring) - 3 weeks
• Carter Michael (quad) – 3 weeks
• Daniel Rich – Managed
• Jack Gunston – Managed

 

[M Malice]

Give Dayne Zorko

15

Dayne Zorko

Age

35

Ht

175cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.4

5star

K

13.2

5star

HB

8.2

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

6.0

5star

CL

3.6

5star

D

14.0

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

5.0

3star

M

2.0

2star

T

5.0

5star

CL

2.0

4star

D

16.4

4star

K

9.8

4star

HB

6.6

4star

M

5.2

5star

T

6.6

5star

CL

1.2

4star

another week, can not be too careful with old man calfitis.

No changes and name Ah Chee, Madden, Answerth or Tunstill as the sub.

 

[3KZ is Football]

I agree. He either plays him or he doesn’t. If you think tactics and game plan - Fagan has got himself into a pickle completely of his own making.

Fagan was happy to play with three tall forwards as part of the game plan when Gunston was getting selected. That tactical approach may have been an absolute winner, but Gunston was in such terrible form, he was not able to be relied upon to execute it. So what does Fagan do? Gunston goes and so it appears does the three tall forward game plan. Rather than sticking with the tactical approach that was the basis of our forward structure, Fagan equivocates. The club has invested time and energy into Tom Fullerton, who at 24 years of age and 200cm is ready to make an impact, but despite good form in the reserves, he is not selected. Remember in the Semi Final against Melbourne last year? Daniher couldn’t play and Fullerton came straight in, but now it seems Fagan’s three tall forward line is only a ‘thing’ when Gunston is available. It is a forward structure that seems to only be required when Fagan can select Gunston and nobody else. That’s why selecting Fort as a sub is such a weak choice. It’s like Fagan is only half committed to his previous structure. Fagan has also painted himself into a corner where Daniher is forced to ruck, which leaves us with one tall forward for parts of games. Not ideal.

So here is the thing, let’s imagine Gunston gets himself fit and Fagan, who I don’t think will require much convincing, decides to put him back into the senior side. You don’t need to be Nostradamus to work out what happens next. Yep, you guessed it, suddenly Fagan dusts off the Three Tall Forward structure to accommodate his old mate Gunston. The message here is simple, Fagan would be letting the ‘tail wag the dog’ by organising the whole forward line around how he can find a spot for a tall forward who will be 32 this year and who he signed to a multi-year deal. As for Fullerton, the message from Fagan appears to be there is no room in the seniors for you anymore, irrespective of your form or my former game plan. Same goes for you Fort.

This is just bad coaching.

Thanks to Nathan Barley for update. With Fullerton injured (hamstring) I would be looking for Fort to get a full game - this gives us the extra tall in offence and means Daniher doesn’t need to be played out of position in the ruck.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Give Dayne Zorko another week, can not be too careful with old man calfitis.

No changes and name Ah Chee, Madden, Answerth or Tunstill as the sub.

I like this - Fort comes in for Lohmann, especially if Zorko doesn’t get up. If Zorko is fit, I go back to my earlier view, that we then need to decide where we need the extra support, midfield or forward line.

 

[Section 5]

Father son for Lions or Dockers
Well done Lachie Neale

9

Lachie Neale

Age

31

Ht

178cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.0

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

15.5

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.7

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

28.3

5star

K

13.9

5star

HB

14.4

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

7.4

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

.................................

Lachie Neale is set this week to complete the best first 100 games in Brisbane history.

Neale Down to Lachie's Impressive 100 Games

Lachie Neale is set this week to complete the best first 100 games in Brisbane history.

www.lions.com.au

 

[Lets Roar like '44]

People were desperate for Lohmann, we played him and did nothing. People are desperate for Fullarton, we’ve actually tried him numerous times and fails to deliver every time. He’s not getting a gig in the forward line, he’s not a ruck, he’s not a backman. He’ll win a 2s flag and I think that’ll serve him well.

 

[p4p1]

People were desperate for Lohmann, we played him and did nothing. People are desperate for Fullarton, we’ve actually tried him numerous times and fails to deliver every time. He’s not getting a gig in the forward line, he’s not a ruck, he’s not a backman. He’ll win a 2s flag and I think that’ll serve him well.

He wasn't that bad and he did, if nothing else provide plenty of run which would have helped us on defence. There's nothing wrong with having a couple of role players who job it is to cover ground and try to halve contests. Zorko is obviously an upgrade on him at this point though.

 

[3KZ is Football]

We've played three talls in our forward line well before Gunston was a lion though so it's probably more Fagan just sticking to a structure too long than a a deliberate attempt to justify keeping his favourite players in.

Fagan has said previously that he had a bad dream about a tall getting injured and this is why Fort is the sub.

I’m sure that’s true. I suppose the tactical question is should we still be going in with three talls? If Fagan decides we are moving away from that strategy, does that mean a fit Gunston only gets in if there was an injury to Daniher or Hipwood?

 

[p4p1]

I’m sure that’s true. I suppose the tactical question is should we still be going in with three talls? If Fagan decides we are moving away from that strategy, does that mean a fit Gunston only gets in if there was an injury to Daniher, Hipwood, Fort, Fullerton or Lester?

EFA.

 

[p4p1]

In all seriousness though, Gunston is 193cm, is he still considered a tall now? Or do we not so much base it on height now because so many AFL players hover around 190cms and base it on game style?

 

[Nathan Barley]

In all seriousness though, Gunston is 193cm, is he still considered a tall now? Or do we not so much base it on height now because so many AFL players hover around 190cms and base it on game style?

It's more how they play. Charlie Curnow is a similar height and he's definitely a tall forward