Preview Round 17, 2023: St.Kilda v Melbourne - Marvel Stadium, Saturday 8th July, 7:25PM AEST *STEELE 150TH*

[Remboy]

Reminds me of 2009 when we got off to a flier with Jimmy Gwilt playing as the 3rd tall forward.

By the GF that role had gone from offensive with Gwilt, to a defensive shutdown role with Sean Dempster.

There's 100 hypothetical scenarios that have us winning in 2009 but this is a big one IMO

If I was English I could say it felt like we won.

 

[gringo2011]

It's a strategy to lose clearance is it? If it is we are very successful as it.

I think they call it conceding when they let it go and pressure to win it back. If you have average inside on-ballers, you let the opposition take it from the centre and pressure the next guy who hopefully turns it over and you attack off the back of that. Hopefully after winning the centre clearance they are all streaming forward ahead of the ball so leave space behind them that you kick into.

 

[gringo2011]

Whilst our midfield is spluttering at best.
Our biggest issue outside of that is making sure that we limit their intercept defenders.
We have shown time and again that we've been unable or unwilling to shut down the likes of Sicily and co and you'd suggest that the Dee's have 2 that have the ability to make the entire night just painful.
I'd nearly suggest bringing in Cordy, purely to play a lockdown role on May.
On the other hand I wonder how much May is paying for 30 touches?

I think sides have worked out how to slow our ball movement so by the time it comes inside they are well set up. We seemed to be very fast kicking up the wings early on. Now they stifle us and we seem a lot less fast and direct.

 

[Jesuswasacarpenter]

I saw him running back and forth on Gosh's paddock with a trainer last Saturday, we were on our way to watch the Swans and Magpies seconds game.

 

[Desperate saint]

Neitz was a gutless sniping turd who loved nothing more than picking off a much smaller opponent with an elbow.

i remember that game

 

[The Cobra]

Apologies haven’t been following that closely but Campbell in to give Marshall a chop out against Gawn & Grundy?

We struggled against Brisbane’s height and no Battle this week.

Heath not ready especially against Gawn & Grundy - hopefully next year.

 

[George]

Dunno why they included the Craig Devonport spray against Collingwood lol but a nice video

 

[StFly]

Dunno why they included the Craig Devonport spray against Collingwood lol but a nice video

Answer: because they can.

 

[Fehring]

Listening to sen (Daniel Hoyne) who kindly pointed out the bottom 4 midfielders in the comp for disposals leading to scores. Three of the bottom four -in the league- are Ross, Steele and Crouch (dead last).

We have the three worst on ballers in the league (atm) all playing in the same midfield.

Whilst that would normally translate to a 200pt loss to Melb, if we just play all three pure defensive mid and go super stinge defensive set up, we could rely on turnover chains off half back but hill battling is a worry with that theory. Just need to avoid using our three liabilities on turnover somehow. NWM will need to play the game of his life for us to get close I think

Yeah, but scoring is not really an essential part of our game plan.

 

[joydivision22]

Given we are 5th with 9 wins, that would suggest our game plan is built around differing strengths of our list than other teams and us having the "worst" three onballers on in the league in one particular stat is not that relevant.

What you've described is pretty much how we have been playing, fold back win the ball off half back and then score either directly through a fast break or through subsequent retention of the ball in the forward half.

That's the way we play because that suits the skill set of our list, Melbourne's game plan relies on winning the ball at stoppages and getting inside 50 as many times as possible because they need to since their forward line ATM is kind of shite.

Out of curiosity, did he mention the top 4 in the league?

He did not as far as I'm aware. Would be interesting. Whilst I agree that is generally been our approach, I don't think its unreasonable to expect all three of most experienced midfielders to be so far down the list on this (I would suggest crucial) statistic. Crouch I understand as he has been spending all of his time tackling but Ross and Steele you would like to think could be much more involved in transition scores.

Did he say how he come across this somewhat made up stat exactly? Like was it score involements averaged across disposals or something?

Because thats simply not true when at the very least Crouch his having an outstanding season and sounds very much like picking stats to prove a point.

He didn't explain his algorithm on air no haha but just mentioned it being a player's disposals leading to a score so one would think being part of an unbroken chain to goal or a behind.

It doesn't make them the worst mids in the league, just worst at delivering the ball leading to scores. Probably more to do with how we play as a rebound after losing clearance side. Hill, Nas, Sincs types are the preferred users inside 50.

In my view, that stat is pretty crucial and would go a long way to suggesting who is performing the best. Not saying they are the three worst but they are currently performing at that level. Are they not capable at all in being part of the rebound chain from D50...? For me thats even worse! North game onwards we have been just plain pitiful in the midfield.

Yeah, but scoring is not really an essential part of our game plan.

 

[Remboy]

Dunno why they included the Craig Devonport spray against Collingwood lol but a nice video

I always think of that game when remembering how great Plugger was. Kenny summed it up well, we had to win to make the 8, down five goals to 4 at 3/4 time. There were 4 goals kicked in the last quarter and Plugger kicked all of them. The guy was a freak. If you never saw him live you really missed out.

 

[ScrappyDo]

None of Steele, Crouch and Ross deliver the ball well inside 50.

Crouch does a lot of things really well, but that's not one of them.

We all know Seb is bottom of the group and destined for replacement.
Steele in form is elite and Crouch has shown he will perform his role week in week out. They are our bread and butter and every team needs those players. What we miss is the jam but there's hope with the kids. It's just time and patients now.

 

[Jay Beast]

We all know Seb is bottom of the group and destined for replacement.
Steele in form is elite and Crouch has shown he will perform his role week in week out. They are our bread and butter and every team needs those players. What we miss is the jam but there's hope with the kids. It's just time and patients now.

A Harley Reid would be nice

 

[bergholt]

I always think of that game when remembering how great Plugger was. Kenny summed it up well, we had to win to make the 8, down five goals to 4 at 3/4 time. There were 4 goals kicked in the last quarter and Plugger kicked all of them. The guy was a freak. If you never saw him live you really missed out.

Agree, but for some reason the biggest Plugger moment that sticks in my head is when he missed that set shot from about 15m out in the first quarter of the final against Geelong in 1991. (Same game where Ablett knocked out both Burkey and Davey Grant.)

 

[Yabadoo22]

In: Sharman, Campbell, Jones, Clark

Out: battle, ross, phillipou, byrnes

B: Webster Howard Sharman
Hb: Sinclair wilkie wanganeen
C: wood crouch clark
Hf: hill owens butler
F: Marshall king Higgins
Foll: Campbell Steele windhager
Int: Stocker Jones gresham caminiti
Sub: Byrnes

If hill/clark isn’t fit, Byrnes Back in and billings/peris sub.

 

[Minga]

King is due imo. If we aren’t negligent of their intercept defenders (wouldn’t hold my breath), I think he dominates at Marvel. Just a prediction

 

[stfan]

I think they call it conceding when they let it go and pressure to win it back. If you have average inside on-ballers, you let the opposition take it from the centre and pressure the next guy who hopefully turns it over and you attack off the back of that. Hopefully after winning the centre clearance they are all streaming forward ahead of the ball so leave space behind them that you kick into.

Essentially, BUT in our case our coaches know our mids are poor and so they have no choice but to set up to win the ball back from a losing midfield.


I am sure our coaches would prefer not play this way, but our midfield talent and midfield form level give them little choice.


It does really mean that we start each ball up at a disadvantage.

We have little other choice though and moreso if Marshall gets beaten in the hitouts.

 

[beside the seaside]

With our remaining draw, if we win this game we become a genuine top four contender. We could realistically stay in the top four for the rest of the season of we win.

Really pumped for the game now, starting with selections tonight.

Jones has to come in doesn't he?

 

[Saintbloke]

If the midfield isn't working, then we should play without one! When the ball is bounced, instead of trying get a possession, one mid could run hard to the forward half, and another to the back half, thereby adding an extra player each end and providing an extra option. This could work, but then again I never coached an AFL team, just a volley ball team for a couple of weeks once.

 

[tomjoad]

If the midfield isn't working, then we should play without one! When the ball is bounced, instead of trying get a possession, one mid could run hard to the forward half, and another to the back half, thereby adding an extra player each end and providing an extra option. This could work, but then again I never coached an AFL team, just a volley ball team for a couple of weeks once.

Let Marshall rove the ball. It's what he's good at.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

I see the Dees have Taj Woewodin making his debut this weekend, seems to have been ripping it up in the VFL for Casey.

Anyone seen him play, comparisons?

 

[BrutThough]

The changes I'd like to see today

Out - Battle, Ross, Byrnes (stays as sub)
In - Jones, Billings

Sharman replaces Battle down back. Jones into the midfield for the break away speed we've been missing - it might be too soon from him returning to bring him back but I'd rather we just go for it than be conservative. Billings replaces Byrnes at half forward to see if he can help improve our forward entires. If Hill doesn't pass his fitness test, Byrnes stays in and returns to the wing role he played at the start of the season.

The changes I'm expecting

Out - Battle
Sharman stays in. Paton as the sub.

 

[gringo2011]

He did not as far as I'm aware. Would be interesting. Whilst I agree that is generally been our approach, I don't think its unreasonable to expect all three of most experienced midfielders to be so far down the list on this (I would suggest crucial) statistic. Crouch I understand as he has been spending all of his time tackling but Ross and Steele you would like to think could be much more involved in transition scores.



He didn't explain his algorithm on air no haha but just mentioned it being a player's disposals leading to a score so one would think being part of an unbroken chain to goal or a behind.


In my view, that stat is pretty crucial and would go a long way to suggesting who is performing the best. Not saying they are the three worst but they are currently performing at that level. Are they not capable at all in being part of the rebound chain from D50...? For me thats even worse! North game onwards we have been just plain pitiful in the midfield.

We are one of the sides that tends to not piss around with the ball, it's always a long option down the line along the wing and that bypasses the midfield on rebound often. Guys like Battle and Nas are probably more likely to run to about 100 from our defensive goal line and go over the midfield where there are some of those runners from the forward line moved up to about the same spot in the attacking end.

To me numbers are interesting but the reason we are winning with a midfield that looks out of sorts is that we don't rely on them as much as others do. They aren't as good as the better midfields so we don't expose them.

 

[gringo2011]

Essentially, BUT in our case our coaches know our mids are poor and so they have no choice but to set up to win the ball back from a losing midfield.


I am sure our coaches would prefer not play this way, but our midfield talent and midfield form level give them little choice.


It does really mean that we start each ball up at a disadvantage.

We have little other choice though and moreso if Marshall gets beaten in the hitouts.

The Tigers have three premierships from the same style so it's not a disadvantage if you can work around it. It's harder work though. Bursting out of the middle before the defences can set up would be much less effort.

Geelong and Sydney both made the GF off lesser midfields who often conceded.

 

[Sully111]

We all know Seb is bottom of the group and destined for replacement.
Steele in form is elite and Crouch has shown he will perform his role week in week out. They are our bread and butter and every team needs those players. What we miss is the jam but there's hope with the kids. It's just time and patients now.

Yeah for sure. Just saying as good as Steele and Crouch can be, delivering the ball lace out inside 50 isn't their strength.