Preview Round 17 - Brisbane Lions v West Coast Eagles - Saturday 8 July 2023 1:45 PM @ The Gabba

[irel]

So, just want to know, did the word/s "clique," "Fagan apologists," "Fagan lovers" “Group think” appear in this thread?

 

[mpal6]

So, just want to know, did the word/s "clique," "Fagan apologists," "Fagan lovers" “Group think” appear in this thread?

Group think - ding ding ding

 

[irel]

Group think - ding ding ding

Was anyone shouted down?

 

[mpal6]

Was anyone shouted down?

yep few pages of good melts, someone threatened to push Nunez down the stairs for supporting Fagan's selection, Gunston got called a few names like not a third tall, not a goal kicker, can't mark over his head, Fagan's pet came straight back etc. Also we finally worked out Nunez is Chris Fagan.

 

[irel]

yep few pages of good melts, someone threatened to push Nunez down the stairs for supporting Fagan's selection, Gunston got called a few names like not a third tall, not a goal kicker, can't mark over his head, Fagan's pet came straight back etc. Also we finally worked out Nunez is Chris Fagan.

So, just want to know, did the word/s "clique," "Fagan apologists," "Fagan lovers" “Group think” appear in this thread?

How could I miss "Fagan's pets"

Always suspected Nunez was dodgy character.

 

[The Zork]

I want to see an open forward line with a long ball sent over the top into space.
Gunston & Witherden both with a 50 metre head start vs who ever kicked it.

 

[martinson]

I want to see an open forward line with a long ball sent over the top into space.
Gunston & Witherden both with a 50 metre head start vs who ever kicked it.

I wonder if Witho will play on Gunston ?

Both with a lot to prove.

Match highlight.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

Well it does…. If lever/may is against Linc/Ah Chee or Gunston/hipwood/ Joey… who’s more likely to at least half the contest and get it to ground? It doesn’t allow them to zone off as freely and they have to be accountable. It’s easy to say ‘lower your eyes’ but at the top level I dare say this is an option 20/30% of the time. You just don’t have the time. Especially against the contenders

Despite him ? That's what it seemed like. It's not as if I've just bobbed up now . I started in round 3. So happy we finally got the message. Would've liked to have seen a harder way back for someone who didn't help us.

We won a lot of games last year before we fell off the perch.

Some people seem to forget how bad our forward pressure has been.
To define it more precisely, ability to make ground, get to the oppositions player and pressure them , put a tackle on, move across to cut off the next player.
Quick enough to get out on a lead or attack the loose ball.
Gunners is none of these things and is past it.
It's unfortunately a waste of games , that could be used for refining out team.
There isn't a team that doesn't offer that sought of pressure and be competitive.
We learned that and moved on , but hey we are now taking a step backwards.
I'm not fussed , but I guess I will be dissapointed if we drop off again in the next three or so games with our pressure in the forward half.
We play our best footy when we are on our bikes ,and that's all over the park, so no thanks , we don't want slow players period.
And Lester is not slow, as an example .
He is not quick at turning but makes up for it with positioning and maximun speed and reaction time, he needs to be moving and not stationary.
Players like Rich, Gunners offer no form of speed whether it's speed of the mark or maximun, in their present stages of their careers.
That's just my opinion , so I'm intitled to that I would think.

Let's see how it pans out, maybe he has been playing with a secret injury , who would know, but unlikely .
TBH I'm more dissapointed Hippy changed his song, that's just tragic.

 

[MSB ROYS]

Witho vs Jack would be delicious.

 

[mpal6]

Some people seem to forget how bad our forward pressure has been.
To define it more precisely, ability to make ground, get to the oppositions player and pressure them , put a tackle on, move across to cut off the next player.
Quick enough to get out on a lead or attack the loose ball.
Gunners is none of these things and is past it.
It's unfortunately a waste of games , that could be used for refining out team.
There isn't a team that doesn't offer that sought of pressure and be competitive.
We learned that and moved on , but hey we are now taking a step backwards.
I'm not fussed , but I guess I will be dissapointed if we drop off again in the next three or so games with our pressure in the forward half.
We play our best footy when we are on our bikes ,and that's all over the park, so no thanks , we don't want slow players period.
And Lester is not slow, as an example .
He is not quick at turning but makes up for it with positioning and maximun speed and reaction time, he needs to be moving and not stationary.
Players like Rich, Gunners offer no form of speed whether it's speed of the mark or maximun, in their present stages of their careers.
That's just my opinion , so I'm intitled to that I would think.

Let's see how it pans out, maybe he has been playing with a secret injury , who would know, but unlikely .
TBH I'm more dissapointed Hippy changed his song, that's just tragic.

One of the posters summarized it very well earlier. Supporters rate the level of pressure much higher and coaches rate the amount of times we're turning over the ball directly back to opposition defense higher, so want to minimize that happening in our F50.

I'm with the supporters on this one, our game plan is to pepper the forward line with multiple entries. If our smalls are there to tackle, harass and put pressure - then even if we turnover a lot, there is a decent chance of a spill over and goal. I don't rate our chances of marking direct in a crowded forward line with precise inside 50 entries - in fact we got beaten by Bulldogs earlier this season by them using that exact tactic of crowded forward line taking away all the space.

We need space, we need the players to run and carry, show some dare to take the game on. These areas are not the strong suite of Rich or Gunston in my view, we just have to wait and see how this pans out.

 

[p4p1]

I've really enjoyed the way we have played with two talls plus Rayner - we look stronger, faster and smarter with ball use. If I ignore Gunston's history and just look at what he's delivered this year, it just doesn't stack up. Can't see why he wasn't sent to the reserves to show what his training block has delivered.

I'm definitely of the thought that the role is how we get the most out of Cam. It gives him a bit more license to go for hangers and allows him a bit more room to attack the ball.

 

[Nunez]

How could I miss "Fagan's pets"

Always suspected Nunez was dodgy character.

Call me Chris x

 

[Dalions]

That’s it for me too. Not how many goals he kicks rather his defensive efforts.

Fages just announced Rich is playing VFL. So a club legend has to go through there but not Fages pet who gets preferential treatment

The defence is working really well without Rich at the moment.
And as far as a third tall forward goes, even us here on Big Footy are unsure whether we prefer the three tall set up or to go with only the 2.
Fort really hasn’t shown anything consistently as a forward and Fullarton has just had an injury.
I said a couple of weeks ago that I thought Gunston will be available for selection before Rich with what I saw at training.
I think we are more likely to go to a more traditional smaller player as the sub to add some run if Gunston doesn’t look to be working.

 

[rye]

i said towards the start of the year i thought our backline looked best with only one of rich or coleman back there. too slow on rebound to accommodate both with how the top teams are playing this year. originally thought rich was ahead of coleman but after seeing rich play live against hawthorn, coleman should hold the spot. rich probably still a slightly better kick, but the gap between rich and coleman for pace (who is not exactly quick himself) is very noticeable, especially seeing how much more often coleman is getting into spots to intercept compared to rich

gunston has a lot easier path back into the team with forward line injuries and if fit provides a point of difference we cannot easily get through playing like for like players as we can with rich

happy for him to get another crack. fagan and match committee have shown they can make the tough calls this year. if gunston is not up for it again i think they will have the resolve to make the call.

 

[M Malice]

So, just want to know, did the word/s "clique," "Fagan apologists," "Fagan lovers" “Group think” appear in this thread?

I prefer the term "researched based consensus".

 

[twhowler]

Lions not jumping the gun with 'fresh' veteran's return

An injury to forward Callum Ah Chee has paved the way for veteran Jack Gunston to return after a four-week training block

www.afl.com.au

Hmm okay Fages. It's Gunston for Ah Chee is it? Well let's see what the pass mark is for Gunston. Ah Chee played quite well, can bring the ball to ground and has superb run. Fages also said on SEN after the game 'Cal has been unlucky played quite well, we will look to bring him back in once available'. So it really should take quite a good Gunston performance to hold his spot. Let's see.

I think the big watch is Hipwood. He's been excellent the past month and the open line has been really open for him to lead in to. I really hope we don't hear Fagan talk about us not honouring Gunston's leads... Hipwood is a better option. I'll be much more impressed if Gunston can get 3 goal assists rather than 3 goals. Obviously we haven't seen much of either.

It still sticks in my craw that Lohmann was overlooked. YES he has not done a heap in the seniors. Neither has Gunston. Lohmann at least played very well in the 2s last week so on that basis deserved another shot over Gunston. It's called selection integrity. Fagan wants Gunston to get some confidence back, how good would it be for us if Lohmann kicked 2-3 and felt for the first time he belonged at afl level?

Bit of a worry re Dunkley but at least it's not long term, sounds like at worse he misses 2 weeks. Dees without Oliver anyway. And Berry will be back if we want a defensive mid role.

Dunkley has become incredibly important. Basically plays a similar game to Berry's second half vs Dees in semi final. Not quite as red hot but dampens the oppo's best clearance player while getting 25 of his own. The worst kicking style i have ever seen but effective enough. Absolute heart and soul player and seems to have given the rest of the team the message about have a defensive edge to your game.

And having said that - really glad JL gets a full game tomorrow. Gets the most out of himself and not his fault we signed him for too long haha. I don't think he's in our best team but could still be needed in the finals.

 

[twhowler]

i said towards the start of the year i thought our backline looked best with only one of rich or coleman back there. too slow on rebound to accommodate both with how the top teams are playing this year. originally thought rich was ahead of coleman but after seeing rich play live against hawthorn, coleman should hold the spot. rich probably still a slightly better kick, but the gap between rich and coleman for pace (who is not exactly quick himself) is very noticeable, especially seeing how much more often coleman is getting into spots to intercept compared to rich

gunston has a lot easier path back into the team with forward line injuries and if fit provides a point of difference we cannot easily get through playing like for like players as we can with rich

happy for him to get another crack. fagan and match committee have shown they can make the tough calls this year. if gunston is not up for it again i think they will have the resolve to make the call.

Coleman is hard to assess on speed. Seems to have a burst but often be on cruise control. Suspect fitness still the issue.

BUT he is so far ahead of Rich on tackling and overhead. Takes nice marks and goes back with the flight. Richy does the latter only.

 

[knaf]

Who’s the fastest out of the 3 though:

Daniel Rich / Jack Gunston / Alex Witherden

They did have a race but all failed to finish

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

Don't agree with this at all. Having a third tall forward means one of them is required to play on him.

The only way Lever and May etc would be able to "float off" and impact the contest in that situation is if his positioning was so poor that it became obvious he wouldn't get the ball. Now, Gunston has been criticised of a lot of things this year, and rightly so, but having a poor footy brain ain't one of them.

Ok I get that.
What I was leaning to was , none of that matters if we bang it on the boot or kick it straight to their advantage.
like we have done in plenty of games.
So then you could argue a more mobile team can or cover more space , that all leads to opening up the opposition, defending pressuring.
and its about the individuals we are discussing imo , not so much the structure .

 

[M Malice]

Who’s the fastest out of the 3 though:

Daniel Rich / Jack Gunston / Alex Witherden

I think we should ask Brent Daniels.

 

[Elixuh]

I think we should ask Brent Daniels.

I’d be willing (and tbh wce probably would be too as it’d give them a better chance) to determine who wins tomorrow based on a witho v gunston foot race.

 

[Gadzorks]

I think we should ask Brent Daniels.

Or Ben Hudson. Loved his turn in the grand final day sprints.

Looked like a grade 3 kid.

Gotta love anyone who can put pride to one side and have fun doing something so badly on front of so many.

 

[StevoJenkins]

So a couple of things I'd thought I'd chip in with that I don't think have been mentioned yet (sorry if I missed you and you have, 13 pages is a bit too much to read).

Firstly, I'm not a fan of Gunston. I was okay with him being in the side earlier in the season, as Gunston was demanding the second or third best defender be placed on him. But, as the season has progressed, other sides have figured him out and are placing a faster defender on him rather than a KPD, because he is cooked and can't run.

That being said, Gunston was brought in because the team lacks a true, big bodied full forward. I'm not the first one to mention this, as I'm pretty sure Briztoon has mentioned this before, but the team doesn't have a Larkey, Buddy, McKay, Brown, Naughton or even a Casbolt type forward who can out muscle/speed his opponent in a one on one, clunk a mark and kick the goal. Daniher and Hippy are not this kind of forward (they are both more forward flankers), and the club was hoping McStay would fix this problem, and Gunston was recruited for this because he was the best OOC forward on the market to replace McStay (once the club knew Fogerty was no longer available).

Gunston is clearly not the man for the job, however the only other options on the team for this are Adams (who will not play again), Payne (who is a lock for defence), Fort, a ruck/forward (Smith) or Fullerton. For some reason, the match committee does not see Fullerton as a full-time forward and doesn't want to play Fort, despite Fort being a better ruck matchup than Omac, depending on the opposition ruck.

This means that, regardless of how you feel about Gunston being in the team, he is the only option we have as a genuine third tall, which will be required to play against traditional teams like Melbourne and Geelong.


Secondly, I don't think this year is our year... again. As other posters have mentioned, the team is transitioning from a kick/mark team to a mixture of kick/mark and run. Because of this transition, and the loss of a consistent bail-out contested mark, it seems that at times the team gets conflicted with the game plan.

This seemed to have been fixed with the new team lineup from the past couple of weeks, but I'm assuming the match committee wants/needs that third tall to lure a third defender out of the packs, making it easier for Hippy, Daniher and Omac to clunk the big marks.

We'll see how things so tomorrow, but I don't think tomorrow will be a real test. The Weagles have been historically bad at the Gabba since 2019, and with the undermanned state they are in at the moment, I can see them being buried tomorrow.

 

[Thomasno]

Nunez half cocked opinion painted as fact is actually backed up by performance on the field for weeks on end which I'm sure you and everyone else saw.

If he's had a crook back or whatever other ailment he might get let's see him earn his spot back which is surely the best way to go.

Fwiiw the people I respect who support other clubs are telling me the one way Brisbane stuffs up this year is holding on to players into the finals who are past it.

It's not as if we don't have players who have shown they offer more.

This is just dumb by Fagan . Giving Gunston a free ride back into the Seniors after he couldn't chase or run for weeks so he can look half reasonable.

Very disappointed after the step forward we made of recent weeks.

Real big “I HAVE OPINIONS” energy from your comments in this thread over the past 24hrs

 

[p4p1]

Secondly, I don't think this year is our year... again. As other posters have mentioned, the team is transitioning from a kick/mark team to a mixture of kick/mark and run. Because of this transition, and the loss of a consistent bail-out contested mark, it seems that at times the team gets conflicted with the game plan.

Yet we have beaten the premiership favourites comfortably as well as the team ranked 4th, one spot behind us. I know both of those wins were when Gunston was in the team but our run has certainly looked better without him in the last few weeks. Our backline is probably functioning now better than it ever has and as long as we make correct calls at the selection table and don't drop players who are excellent runners for players who are liabilities when the ball isn't in hand, we are absolutely a great chance to win it this year. What seems to have stopped us previously is defensive run and our mids being outmuscled. This years we have been able to fix both issues.