Preview Round 19, 2023 : Richmond v Hawthorn, 1:45pm 22nd July, MCG

[PenAndPaper]

u motherfukers complained for years that BB and Ceglar didn't give our mids first use

Exactly and now we are getting first use and our midfield is dominating most games.

 

[TylerDurden]

Exactly and now we are getting first use and our midfield is dominating most games.

Bingo.

 

[toomanysquibs]

Exactly and now we are getting first use and our midfield is dominating most games.

Plus game time will eventually improve the deficiencies, by whatever room for growth the guy(s) have in them.

We’re rebuilding still, right?

 

[KermitJagger]

Plus game time will eventually improve the deficiencies, by whatever room dor growth the guy(s) have in them.

We’re rebuilding still, right?

Hawthorn top players by CBA (Centre Bounces Attended) % in 2021 (Over 10 games played):

Jaeger - 72.9%
Mitchell - 70.3%
Ceglar - 61.3%
Worpel - 58%
McEvoy - 49%

Top players by CBA % in 2023:

Nash - 69.1%
Newc - 68.3%
Worp - 64.1%
Reeves 61.7%
Day - 59.9%

Outside of Worpel, it's a completely different unit. We're definitely still rebuilding, need to give these lads some genuine time together before starting fresh with the midfield game plan.

 

[Truetiger]

Ralphy already trying to get Jai rubbed out v his beloved Tiges.

Ralphy only claims to be a tiger. He is not much of a supporter and none of us value his views. As for our game this week should be good

 

[AussieToffee15]

Massive shame that Ramsden remains out, as the two ruckman isn't working.

Ryan with 2-3 good games now, I wouldn't be surprised if he came in as the resting ruckman.

My changes:

In: Long
Out: Greene
Sub: Long (DGB starts)

Blanck unlucky, but Richmond without Lynch aren't particularly tall in the forward half, and there is no way Frost gets dropped after his best game for the year.

 

[Jazzfan]

I actually think we are a good chance in this. Tigers travelling back from the West.

 

[Yardie]

Firstly, I wasn’t attempting wit- one can only guess why you’d bring that up. Secondly, the simple point I was making, which somehow eluded you, was that sometimes you have to make a trade off. Most discerning supporters might see the merit in sacrificing a bit at centre bounces to gain more in general play, when selecting a ruckman. And whilst Reeves has proven his worth as a tap ruckman, it hasn’t translated much into forward 50 entries, goals or games won. Having a bloke who can drop back to influence a contest deep in defence, move forward to do the same or involve himself between the arcs might be seen as the greater of the two assets. FMD.

Your point hasn't eluded me at all. What you want is prime Ben McEvoy. Most of our future stars haven't played more than 50 games. If your going to pot Ned for not being a complete player then you should also pot some of our other youngsters at the same time. Why is Ned the only one to be singled out by so many on here but others get a pass mark when they have deficiencies. Sam, and other coaches, have said on numerous occasions that improvement isn't linear. It'll come but you have to give it time. But let's be clear, if Brodie Grundy came across to the club next year I'd be expecting Ned to go back to BH to work on his game.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Your point hasn't eluded me at all. What you want is prime Ben McEvoy. Most of our future stars haven't played more than 50 games. If your going to pot Ned for not being a complete player then you should also pot some of our other youngsters at the same time. Why is Ned the only one to be singled out by so many on here but others get a pass mark when they have deficiencies. Sam, and other coaches, have said on numerous occasions that improvement isn't linear. It'll come but you have to give it time. But let's be clear, if Brodie Grundy came across to the club next year I'd be expecting Ned to go back to BH to work on his game.

Reeves gets singled out because who his father is.
A lot of jealousy that someone got on am AFL list with flaws in their game on the basis that he may have been put in front of the coaches by dad.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

u motherfukers complained for years that BB and Ceglar didn't give our mids first use

Who complained about Big Boy? The only complaints were him being played out of position as a CHB and him getting on in years.

Out of the recent grand final sides where did Nankervis, ROB, Soldo, Mumford, Stanley, Hickey, English, Cox, Lycett and Vardy rate in giving their midfields "first use?"

Gawn and Grundy are obvious exceptions as they is so good around the ground.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Reeves gets singled out because who his father is.
A lot of jealousy that someone got on am AFL list with flaws in their game on the basis that he may have been put in front of the coaches by dad.

No he does not, it has nothing to do with his father at the moment. Please find a single post that references his father that forms part of the criticism on his ability to not mark to ball or do anything around the ground.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

Who complained about Big Boy? The only complaints were him being played out of position as a CHB and him getting on in years.

Out of the recent grand final sides where did Nankervis, ROB, Soldo, Mumford, Stanley, Hickey, English, Cox, Lycett and Vardy rate in giving their midfields "first use?"

Gawn and Grundy are obvious exceptions as they is so good around the ground.

the constant hand-wringing and discourse in these threads about the performance of Reeves is tiresome because of exactly what you're saying – great teams don't need great rucks. his impact (or lack thereof) on us winning or losing is disproportionate to the amount of criticism he receives. it's no big secret what he needs to do to get better.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

the constant hand-wringing and discourse in these threads about the performance of Reeves is tiresome because of exactly what you're saying – great teams don't need great rucks. his impact (or lack thereof) on us winning or losing is disproportionate to the amount of criticism he receives. it's no big secret what he needs to do to get better.

I don't think I've seen a single poster say Reeves is the reason for us losing games, that would be completely unfair. The criticism is based on his inability to impact the game in any way outside of ball-ups.

His defenders constantly point out he's in the top several for taps to advantage, which is fair enough as that's the one thing he's good at.

But that's not the main reason why our midfield has improved and is playing well, as those posts would suggest. As I've pointed out you don't need rucks that dominate taps to have a dominant midfield, it would certainly help of course, but top teams haven't necessarily had them when they've been contenders. The common denominator is the those rucks were able to influence contests around the ground.

 

[HedgeFund]

Do you think Damien Monkhurst knows anything about rucking? I mean he literally advocated for us to sign him, and is big wraps on Ned.

Monky rucked in the VFL / AFL from 1988 to 2000. Back then, ruckmen took the tap and then once the ball went forward, sat a kick behind the play and let a deep forward take the taps.

When the opposition had possession big guys like Monky would simply run the corridor and get back to sit in the hole.

Very simple around the ground movement.

No doubt he knows a thing or two about ruck craft at stoppages, but Monky was hardly an elite runner, nor was he particularly effective when the ball was in transition.

So - given Reeves glaring RFI - Monky was not a great mentor for a ruck who needs to get on his bike to do more around the ground.

If he advocated for us to sign Ned, I dare say it was due to his potential as a tap ruckman, not a mobile marking utility (which we miss badly with McEvoy retiring).

 

[Dewnior]

Finn to Vlaustin. We need to shut him down as most of their forays forward from defence initiate with him.

 

[burger09]

Are we ready to make a statement against these perennial bullies?

We'll see. Might be a year too early.

 

[PenAndPaper]

Finn to Vlaustin. We need to shut him down as most of their forays forward from defence initiate with him.

Surely goes to Bolton, he's basically their barometer.

 

[MasterSamurai]

Forget about the rucks, our main weakness is that our mids don't defend very well. That's the reason why the good opposition get high inside 50's and put our defence under a heap of pressure. That's the reason why both Moore and Chad work high up the ground, the youngsters in the middle, though get a lot of the ball, they do not know how to stop the opposition from getting on top.
Too many see ball, get ball types but so was Sam, Hodge and Lewis but in time, they all adapted and the rest is history.

 

[peetoo]

I actually think we are a good chance in this. Tigers travelling back from the West.

We will if the tigers players take the piss like over the last 5 years

 

[hawkers10]

I’m not actually sure what changes we could make. All I could think of is blank coming in and Fergus Greene

26

Fergus Greene

Age

27

Ht

187cm

Wt

75kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.8

2star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

3.0

5star

G

1.0

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.8

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

3.0

5star

G

1.0

4star

coming out through injury. We could also bring in someone like Ryan or long.

 

[hawkers10]

Surely goes to Bolton, he's basically their barometer.

Agreed. Don’t want Finn going to anyone else but Bolton. Maybe even a damaging mid who they have such as a Prestia, maybe Finn could go to someone like that.

 

[Dewnior]

Surely goes to Bolton, he's basically their barometer.

Perhaps, but Finn appears to now do his best work outside of the middle and Bolton plays alot of time in it.

I'd actually like to see Sam send Brocky to Bolton at the opening bounce just to see how it goes. And then rotate mids. Hardwick can take him if he goes forward.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

But it still doesn’t make much sense.

Weddle is the number 1 running bounce player in our side, he’s top 10 in the comp. We’d lose a heap of run.

And really if he bounced it when he was meant to he would be even higher. Genuinely ran 20 plus metres without a bounce on the weekend twice.

 

[TylerDurden]

Agreed. Don’t want Finn going to anyone else but Bolton. Maybe even a damaging mid who they have such as a Prestia, maybe Finn could go to someone like that.

Has to be Bolton.

 

[Mercy Seat]

Who complained about Big Boy? The only complaints were him being played out of position as a CHB and him getting on in years.

Out of the recent grand final sides where did Nankervis, ROB, Soldo, Mumford, Stanley, Hickey, English, Cox, Lycett and Vardy rate in giving their midfields "first use?"

Gawn and Grundy are obvious exceptions as they is so good around the ground.

People were calling for BB to be dropped all the time in in his first few years, which happened to be flag years. Tige 19 was particularly brutal on him.