Review Round 23, 2024 - Collingwood vs. Brisbane Lions

[dlanod]

Anyone having a slapfest with other posters have a high chance to have a day's break to cool down.

 

[martinson]

You'd have to believe in the tooth fairy if you thought Kingy had any expertise/training/academic qualifications/or even the intelligence to analyse statistics ,which is actually an area of study with pitfalls ,false assumptions and more riders and asterisks on the outcome than most areas of mathematics.

Yet here we have ex footy players who've generally only ever played footy reeling off stats as some sort of proof of anything as if they have any idea how to interpret stats and how easy it is to be misled by them.

 

[Nathan Barley]

GF 2023 came down to 2 things. The designated forward who only turns up every 5-6 games also didn't front for the GF (kicked 1 behind). Berry gave away a dumb ass 50 m penalty with 4 ½ mins to go in the last quarter and Sidebottom subsequently slotted it from outside the 50m arc.

Peak Facebook comments section this

 

[Tom14]

People, david king is perpetually triggered because Fagan directly called him out once in a presser. His analysis is dogshit.

His analysis is the worst in the caper relative to how deep he goes into these erroneous points. My favourite past time is listening to him provide brain dead analysis for 5min only to have someone like Dunstall make a simple point which collapses the whole thing. He then gets defensive but doesn’t have any points in rebuttal (likely because it’s gone off the script kingys producer has drafted for him).

More seriously, Kingy is what I would call take-committed. Once he latches on to something, he won't come off it (often because he has made a financial investment, like his daicos brownlow bet last year).

So he looked at the stat that no coach had won a first flag after 7+ years at a club and decided it was times up for Fages. There wasn't anything specific as to why we'd be in trouble other than the 'how long can you stay at the top' stuff, just taking the stat and running with it.

He'll probably be proven right on that call because only 1/18 team can win a flag each year. But it doesn't make his analysis logical or sensible.

Since we turned it around mid year he's been waiting for this moment. Every time he's praised us has come with the "they better win it though" stuff. He's downplayed our injuries, made ludicrous claims like suggesting we are better off with Henry Smith over Hippy up forward, all in service of a narrative.

The selfishness stuff with our forwards is the exact same reheated stuff too.

What is missing from this though (and imo is more damning) is how with few exceptions we don't beat teams on defense/system. I'd say we did that really well against the dogs in the middle of this year, and against carlton in the home and away game at marvel last year.

I know our gamestyle is not conducive to high tackle counts for us, but there's a legit second guess there about how we apply pressure. Last year we were 4th for pressure acts differential compared to our opponents at +18.7 per game. THis year we are 10th with a -4.5 differential per game.

Similarly the last two weeks we've been too passive in allowing Harris to get taken out of the intercept game. It's hard with Joyce in the side and not Payne, but its no surprise we've had two poorer weeks when Harris hasn't had many (if any) intercept marks.

 

[Schache_off]

Whatever result we get from finals this year is irrelevant.

Next preseason needs to be almost entirely set shots practice. Honestly f*ck everything else, unlike some others here I don’t really have much of a problem with most of how we’re playing otherwise. Yes there’s issues, but a LOT of issues can get papered over with good goal kicking. I mean take last week, we effectively played one good quarter out of four and still should’ve smoked the giants - but the accuracy was the difference. Our current gameplan and style will generate more than enough opportunities for shots to win; we just need to take advantage of that.

I seem to remember a story from Lynchy about how he got more comfortable kicking set shots in his transition forward; where he just spent an entire off season doing nothing but kicking at goals.

Sounds reasonable in theory but it seems like one of those issues that need to be dealt with individually. Joe and Charlie seems like it's all in their head and I would be surprised if making them take more shots at goal improved anything and might make it worse the next time they start to miss a few easy shots. Perhaps some players need more shot practice but it's impossible to really replicate the game atmosphere and exhaustion at training to do this with any guarantee.

 

[Perrip]

I used to enjoy those shows but then realised the level of analysis is actually quite poor and calling it quite poor might be going too easy on them.

I was debating rather to go with poor or a lot worse choice of words to describe it lol.

Damian Barrett was one of the only Vic journos not to completely write us off after our winless start to the year and he actually anlysed why we'd have such a tumultuous start to the season. But you look at Fox Footy and they had mutliple articles writing us off winning because we lost our first few games with barely any other reasoning as to why.

 

[martinson]

Peak Facebook comments section this

I think though Nathan if you rule a line and accept what the state of the game was at the 4.5 minute mark you could argue that's what cost us from that point.

Fairly crucial. Haven't seen Sidebottom do that since. Just wasn't meant to be.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I think though Nathan if you rule a line and accept what the state of the game was at the 4.5 minute mark you could argue that's what cost us from that point.

Fairly crucial. Haven't seen Sidebottom do that since. Just wasn't meant to be.

More the first comment on Hipwood. Every time we lose its his fault

 

[PopsPride]

Peak Facebook comments section this

Can you even string an English sentence together sport?

 

[MSB ROYS]

Lipinski has been fined by the MRO for tripping - I wonder if this was the incident where Joe was then deemed "holding the ball" after he fell over and pointed out to the Umpire that he had been tripped.

 

[martinson]

More the first comment on Hipwood. Every time we lose its his fault

Hipwood's had a good year . He does most of the donkey work in the forward line and is crucial to our structure. Like Joe every time he does something wrong it gets highlighted.

He's a genuine trier who gives it his best , even on Saturday when clearly he wasn't quite right he still competed as best he could.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

It's not hard, but maybe hearing them is with big crowds (I don't know).

It's got to ba a call where everyone uses it.
Then if someone is within handballing distance surely they can fill in the gaps with lip reading or expression if the crowd is over the top.
Who was right in front of him Charlie, I think so.
In soccer you say man on , simples.

 

[dlanod]

Why can't we have just been ruthless. Why don't we enjoy burying teams? We're too nice.

Ross Lyon does not like this comment.

 

[martinson]

Ross Lyon does not like this comment.

I don't care whether we bury them or spend the game talking to them about what bar they're going to thatnight.

I just want to win.

 

[pappaazz]

Does anyone else still feel ill after that game? I still can't believe we lost it. Irrespective of our misses, a team with as much experience as ours shouldn't be losing a game from that position. Trying to stay positive but I can't help but think we've let a chance royally slip this year

 

[M Malice]

Does anyone else still feel ill after that game? I still can't believe we lost it. Irrespective of our misses, a team with as much experience as ours shouldn't be losing a game from that position. Trying to stay positive but I can't help but think we've let a chance royally slip this year

Opening round collapse v the Blues was worse and in the long run had just as much impact on our season.

After the 1st quarter that night I was eyeing off an undefeated season, that quarter of footy was breathtaking from us.

 

[Perrip]

Opening round collapse v the Blues was worse and in the long run had just as much impact on our season

It would be interesting to see examples of how other teams have suffered, or not, in-game after a key star player of their team went down with an injury. Kiddy in OR, Berry this weekend, etc.

 

[dlanod]

It would be interesting to see examples of how other teams have suffered, or not, in-game after a key star player of their team went down with an injury. Kiddy in OR, Berry this weekend, etc.

GWS's losses before their current streak was the first two games Sam Taylor was out.

Obviously Geelong has been missing Hawkins most of the year.

Has Port missed many contributors?

Sydney has been pretty lucky I think, just a couple of missing games here and there from memory.

 

[Roylion]

GWS's losses before their current streak was the first two games Sam Taylor was out.

Obviously Geelong has been missing Hawkins most of the year.

Has Port missed many contributors?

Sydney has been pretty lucky I think, just a couple of missing games here and there from memory.

The 2024 injury list from Champion data makes interesting reading.

 

[Section 5]

GWS's losses before their current streak was the first two games Sam Taylor was out.

Obviously Geelong has been missing Hawkins most of the year.

Has Port missed many contributors?

Sydney has been pretty lucky I think, just a couple of missing games here and there from memory.

Possibly Perrip means during the game and the result of that particular game.

 

[McIvor]

Does anyone else still feel ill after that game? I still can't believe we lost it. Irrespective of our misses, a team with as much experience as ours shouldn't be losing a game from that position. Trying to stay positive but I can't help but think we've let a chance royally slip this year

I’ve felt I’ll ever since the GWS loss and it cuts even deeper that the losses have been pretty well dismissed.

 

[notliondown]

If Ashcroft had of handballed the recipient would've been under even more pressure. I think Ashcroft was in a better position and just needed to kick the goal

Even with Joe his pass would've been harder to pull off than a shot on goal IMO unless he went straight away

Wasn't Kai all alone in the goal square waving his arms around?

 

[notliondown]

AFter having reflected on this since seeing it live - I think it is fair to criticise Joe for not kicking straight away. Yes, still a difficult kick but Charlie was sprinting against Frampton, I think if he had executed the kick there's a good chance Charlie can score.

Once that moment passed then fair to criticise charlie for not doubling back etc.

And it's not like it hasn't been done 100 times before in that same circumstance.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Wasn't Kai all alone in the goal square waving his arms around?

Kai's man left him to pressure Ashcroft but there was another defender near him. Definitely wouldn't call it all alone. Ashcroft would've had to handball 10m and over the player coming at him. Kai would've had his back to goals, been shut down while the handball was coming to him and been under all sorts of pressure

 

[notliondown]

I think dismissing King entirely is as wrong as hanging on his every word. Same with any of the talking heads.

There is a reason we lose games the way we do and have done for years. Those guys calling it out is what they do.

Rightly or wrongly there are lots of moments in footy that change outcomes... To me there is little doubt that under pressure nearly all the team need to think through them and perhaps do things differently.

 

[bungalow_bill]

I don't care whether we bury them or spend the game talking to them about what bar they're going to thatnight.

I just want to win.

I actually think close wins are preferable heading into finals. How many times did the Pies bury their opponents leading up to last years finals?