Preview Round 3, 2023: Hawthorn v North Melbourne, 1 April 223, 1.45pm AEDT @ York Park

[Yardie]

Problem is Ramdsen only had 9 possessions, 8 HOs, 2 marks and no goals in the reserves. Bad as Kosi has been, I still think the players in the seconds - particularly the kids (so not so much Lynch, Scrim etc)- need to earn their promotion rather than get pushed up for senior games because an incumbent is playing poorly. Its not like these losses are costing us anything other than heartache at the moment. I'd rather Ramsden and co were set a series of KPIs over a block of 5-10 games that they need to meet at BXH before they are considered for the AFL. If they shoot the lights out before that block is over then they might get fast tracked but there is no pressure on them to do so and no expectation that they will. That way everyone in the twos is worrying about their own performance rather than ambulance-watching the guys in their position in the firsts, which will happen if promotion is based on the AFL guys failing rather than the BXH guys demonstrating their entitlement to step up. And it means the new players come in with some form and confidence behind them and a sense (among the others in the team as well as the player himself) that they earned their place. I think it would be a bad outcome if we bring in someone like Ramsden without him having merited his place through a solid body of work in the reserves and then have him fail two weeks running and have to decide if he gets dropped now too and whether we bring back Kosi, who himself might have done nothing in the twos to warrant re-selection.

Its hard because with no Lewis and no Wingard, our named forward line averages a career total of 5.5 goals a game between them at the moment. And that includes Kosi averaging his standard bag of one! Sad fact is I'm not sure we can risk losing his contribution in our current circumstances - we might only score four goals for the game...

Oh, yeah... right.......sob.

I can concede Ramsden

 

[Roger Rogerson]

I wonder if we are already doing a review of our fitness program.

3 out of 4 games we have looked like a VFL side and this includes our experienced AFL hardened older players. Our guys have nothing in the tank when they try to find something. I saw it live against the Scum and could see it at times from the TV on Sunday. And the Pies game it was reported they had done a long run days before the game so were flat.

CJ has lost his bounce. Looks a completely different player. The only bloke that looks to have improved is Day. It's a massive concern.

 

[Wingnut19]

What does Blanck actually do? And why has everyone penned I’m in as a certain starter every week. I don’t see it

 

[TylerDurden]

What does Blanck actually do? And why has everyone penned I’m in as a certain starter every week. I don’t see it

His mate Frost got destroyed by Amartey. We don't have many other options in form.

 

[Brishawk]

Not sure what Nash did wrong, was far from our worst. 19 possessions, 4 marks and a bit of aggression, a little bash and crash, which we need.

1 tackle and 8 pressure acts is absolutely terrible for a player that is supposed to be an inside mid.

 

[Blackhawk42]

I wonder if we are already doing a review of our fitness program.

3 out of 4 games we have looked like a VFL side and this includes our experienced AFL hardened older players. Our guys have nothing in the tank when they try to find something. I saw it live against the Scum and could see it at times from the TV on Sunday. And the Pies game it was reported they had done a long run days before the game so were flat.

CJ has lost his bounce. Looks a completely different player. The only bloke that looks to have improved is Day. It's a massive concern.

We just recruited one of the most renowned strength and conditioning coaches in Australia. These things generally don't bear fruit in one off season, especially with such a young group.

For more context, first year draftees only do about 75% of the training over pre-season so their bodies aren't broken down by the heavy loads. A second year player is likely doing a full time program for the first time. With such a young list we are bound to look 'unfit' compared to more seasoned outfits.

If we still look to be lagging behind the opposition in two years time I'd say Burge may be in the gun a bit.

 

[theiaofseed]

I wonder if we are already doing a review of our fitness program.

3 out of 4 games we have looked like a VFL side and this includes our experienced AFL hardened older players. Our guys have nothing in the tank when they try to find something. I saw it live against the Scum and could see it at times from the TV on Sunday. And the Pies game it was reported they had done a long run days before the game so were flat.

CJ has lost his bounce. Looks a completely different player. The only bloke that looks to have improved is Day. It's a massive concern.

**** me dead this crap again, they did a typical session.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

What does Blanck actually do? And why has everyone penned I’m in as a certain starter every week. I don’t see it

Because we need a young KPD

 

[Roger Rogerson]

We just recruited one of the most renowned strength and conditioning coaches in Australia. These things generally don't bear fruit in one off season, especially with such a young group.

For more context, first year draftees only do about 75% of the training over pre-season so their bodies aren't broken down by the heavy loads. A second year player is likely doing a full time program for the first time. With such a young list we are bound to look 'unfit' compared to more seasoned outfits.

If we still look to be lagging behind the opposition in two years time I'd say Burge may be in the gun a bit.

Yes its a given the young blokes need a few preseasons but our senior players shouldn't be looking like they do now. Also we have so many strong natural runners and none of them are breaking games apart with run or even looking like it. Early last year we had strong 2nd halves and were able to outrun sides just falling short of Carlton and beating Geelong. This year we cant even put any pressure on. Perhaps Burge has had to reset the program and we are paying the price now.

 

[Briar Gold]

Only bloke who was really hard at it

Haven't caught up on the autopsy but was at the SCG - Day, Moore and Nash can hold their heads high. CJ looked lost and we are absolutely crying out for on field leadership. It was quiet out there (...could hear my tears).

 

[Mrzohs]

I see the Supercoach is real life selection committee are up and about.

I also see that no one has selected Wingard as one of their "ins", despite the club saying last week he will be available in round 3. Are we all assuming that to be a nonsense and Chad's calf will be a 4-6 week "cramp"?

I don't reckon it will matter overly who we bring in, we'll still struggle come Saturday. But given one of our biggest problems appears to be cohesion, I don't see how 5+ changes helps with that. So I'm predicting that the number of changes will be closer to 2, and those predicting 5 or more changes will be a touch disappointed come 18:20 Thursday.

We have to restrict North's scoring to under 80 I reckon as us scoring more than that, especially at Launny, will be a bit of a task! Need multiple senior bods to have games closer to their peak to pull it off.

it all depends on the inclusions.

bringing in Morrison,Scrimshaw,Wingard are three blokes who know the system. Throw in Dgb who also played 15+ games last yr.
Brockman/Butler have both played chunks of footy last season I expect one of them to feature they will defiantly add something we are missing in the forward line also hopefully push Moore up the ground.
I'm expecting 4 changes minimum.

 

[FactsNotBS]

One of the very few positives today was the small forwards that performed well for Box Hill.

O’Sullivan: 18 disposals - 6 marks - 2 tackles - 2 goals - 2 behinds
Brockman: 12 disposals - 3 marks - 3 goals - 2 behinds
Bennetts: 13 disposals - 5 marks - 3 tackles - 1 goal

Agree, not easy to beat Sydney 2s in Sydney. Long and Hustwaite also looked like they arent far away.


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[FactsNotBS]

Surely we give Morrison, Scrimshaw and possibly Seamus a chance on the half back line soon. The disposal and composure of guys like CJ and bramble just isn’t up to standard at the moment

I wouldnt say Brambles disposal is lacking hes just not getting enough of it and gets pushed off the contest. Id say Long looks a certainty to play this week after his 2s performances. Looks ready to take a wing but I think Sam prefers Harry in the side and will play him if he’s considered fit enough.


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[the big lebowski]

While I’m on a roll posting on the hawthorn board I thought I might copy some thing I just posted on the main board about clarko.

I post this whilst first saying the following:

1: whilst terribly handled I think you did the right thing moving on clarko for Mitchell. Just like I still think brad Scott was an underrated coach that had his time at north and should be good for *

2: your list strategy is sound and short term pain for long term gain is fine, assuming you have a good coach (which I think you do)

3: really looking forward to the clarko cup this week and think you have a real shot despite the form lines

Anyway

So I’m not really familiar with clarko as a coach at hawthorn. Obviously he is completely and historically successful as a coach, has a firm personality, and has anger issues, but I haven’t followed his career particularly closely. Until now of course.

In his second coaching stint at north, he’s equaled our success last year in round 2 and from afar has physically, emotionally, tactically turned the club around. I’m not commenting on his long term success potential at north, but some interesting onfield changes he’s made are

1: turned our second best forward match winner into a midfielder getting career best disposal and clearance numbers.

2: got older players playing footy the defies even supporter expectations

3: played plenty of youth whilst still making young players have to earn games

4: seemingly revolutionising how a coach coaches on game day. He’s clearly walking the boundary like a soccer coach. It’s so jarring that it has drawn criticism from people that can only criticise. He also brought Brett ratten

Brett Ratten

Age

53

Ht

184cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.4

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

10.3

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

3.0

5star

No current season stats available

D

26.4

5star

K

13.8

5star

HB

12.6

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

in to be match day coach in the box.

5: turned out forward match winner no 1 draft pick into a half back flanker, getting historically all time stats, despite never playing there.

6: cherry picked a retired senior player he used to coach to add to the group making a very strong contribution.

Pretty good start

Edit: all while dealing with a life changing set of allegations, uncertainty etc

 

[FactsNotBS]

Really fed up with Finn as he offers nothing if be doesn’t tag. In saying that, if Simpkin is out, must tag LDU. I think we are a chance this week but jeez an axe needs to be swung on CJ, Frost, Kosi and Reeves. I’d be going Meek and Lynch but playing Lynch 75% FF.

Yes, if Meek or Reeves could be effective forward or back then you play both of them but if not, while Lewis is out, Lynch is a better option as the second tall.


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[FactsNotBS]

Bring out ya broom Mitchell, it's time for sweeping changes:

Hardwick - Blanck - Impey
Scrimshaw - DGB - Sicily

Meek - Newcombe - Day
Amon - Worpel - Ward

Moore - Ramsden - MacDonald
Butler - Lynch - Brockman

Mackenzie - Finn - Nash - CJ

Drop Luke Breust?


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[caseman2]

IN: Scrimshaw, Grainger-Barras, Brockman

OUT: Reeves, Frost, Nash


B: Hardwick, Blanck, Jiath

HB: Scrimshaw, Grainger-Barras, Sicily

C: Amon, Worpel, Day

HF: MacDonald, Greene, Moore

F: Breust, Koschitzke, Brockman

R: Meek, Newcombe, Ward

INT: Impey, Bramble, MacKenzie, Maginness, Butler (Sub)

Blanck is getting dropped before Frost

 

[Coach Killer]

Blanck is getting dropped before Frost

Both had poor games this week. Watching the tape again, elementary defensive errors cost us every goal to 3qtr time and the scoreboard would have been more damning had they kicked straight. The good news is those errors can be quickly fixed by a change of personnel who play those positions well naturally and don’t panic. A defence first system and game plan will yield quick results.

I feel for Blanck bcos he’s learning how to play FB in the ones. He could do with a spell in the two’s to practice his defensive positioning and keeping his feet. Frost I’m afraid is a big liability. He was poor last week and this week he really let himself and the team down. He’s been in the system over 10 years now he should know better.

Frost, Blanck, CJ, Bramble and Finn were poor defensively, they really shouldn’t be playing in defence. At one point we had Bramble and Nash on the last line fumble a ball between them (basic error) that spilled to Sydney player for easy goal. Those 2 players shouldn’t be on our last line of defence - they panic and don’t know how to play on the last line.

I think we’ll be better served with Kozi and DGB playing the defensive posts and Weddel in the back pocket. Kozi is strong, fast, keeps his feet, maintains touch on his opponent and competes well, he needs to go back and sure up the FB post.

DGB knows how to play in defence, positions himself well, doesn’t panic, knows how to play in front. I’m happy for him to be beaten occasionally out the back or in a contest - nobody has kicked a bag on him thus far (reserves or seniors). He doesn’t make too many errors, he’s occasionally overzealous and gives a free kick away but nothing that can’t be tempered.

Weddel, haven’t seem much of him but what I did see in the lower leagues and from all reports he’s extremely good defensively and one on one and I feel will compliment Kozi and DGB well.

Sic and Hardwick for experience and Scrimma if fit needs to come in. We need Sic to play the attacking defender role for us.

There’s a role for CJ and I think it’s further up the ground. He’s really poor defensively, makes too many errors and panics when he’s in defence. He would serve the team well further up the ground where he seems to relish the space and would be a tough match up.

Whilst the scoreboard was poor for us , the reality is it was basic defensive errors and poor defensive shape at the back that costs us every goal to 3qtr time - that can be fixed, especially now that we’re in season we get to practice against opposition every week.

No doubt Sam and the coaching team would be disecting the game and showing them this. If we can clean this part of the ground up and make less basic defensive errors, the confidence will grow and the results won’t be as lob-sided.

FWIW, for those who haven't seen Longmires presser, it’s worth listening to. I actually felt like he was talking to Sam in a way.

Effectively he was saying at Sydney, they teach and demand a defence first game and allow the players natural attacking instincts to take over thereafter. They put a priority on defence and pressure and the attacking side of the game looks after itself. Valuable insights, food for thought.

Apologies for the long post.

 

[HappyHawk_1]

Blanck is getting dropped before Frost

No.

Do you play a 29yo KPD who slacks off his man from the start, is a shocking user sometimes, and has been given plenty of chances…
Or do you play a 22yo KPD who’s just had his first AFL preseason, clearly puts in effort week in week out, and is a better user?

With a young guy learning to play the game you give him some slack. Two below average games from an experienced head (and leadership group member) in Frost is not acceptable IMO.

 

[chopflop]

I know LDU has been tearing it up but he is a centre-square inside ball-winning machine and Finn (when tagging) usually starts off half-forward and runs to his man after the CB. This would seem to be a bit of a waste for a player like LDU who torches you with centre clearances.

Call me crazy but I think there is a chance that Sam could send Finn to the 3rd gamer! Mess up their transition ball movement game and make sure it is in the hands of blokes like Howe who can just kick it back to us.

 

[Jazzfan]

Need to win this just so players and the coaching staff can take a breath and generate some effortless positivity.

It's pretty clear the first two weeks performances have really shocked given how uncompetitive we have been (yes we were told it's expected we will be better later in the season, but no way anyone at the club expected the two performances we have dished up. Witches hats).

Tensions and anxiety will be high this week. We need a positive performance, ideally with a win.

A bad loss this week into Cats on Easter Monday is something I don't want to think about.

Need to bring in forward pressure. DGB surely gets his chance.

 

[chopflop]

It's time for Sully!

We need to bring the heat and intensity.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Blanck is getting dropped before Frost

No chance. Frost is a senior player and for two weeks has been dreadful and a liability, with ball in hand, without the ball, his lack of defensive positioning, the first goal of the game was on him and he wasn’t in the frame. He hasn’t really done anything.

Blanck hasn’t been good either but he’s also a young developing key defender, who showed pretty good signs at times against Essendon and definitely has talent Frost doesn’t, while being just as competitive.

Doubt either get dropped this week, but frost is on the edge of a string, he has to be better, a lot better. At this stage Blanck is doing poorly and still making himself look like Prime Lake in comparison to Frost, he’s been THAT bad.

 

[Dewnior]

Call me crazy but I think there is a chance that Sam could send Finn to the 3rd gamer! Mess up their transition ball movement game and make sure it is in the hands of blokes like Howe who can just kick it back to us.

Didn't Sam send Finn to Blakey to mess up their ball movement? How did that turn out?

 

[burner1]

Am sure there’s a bit of ego in this one - Sam won’t want to lose to Clarko. The media will also pile on us more if we lose this than probably any other game coming up. Can’t see us making wholesale changes or playing more kids. We’ll bring back experienced players if fit (Morrison, scrim, chad) and back guys in.