Review Round 4, 2022 - Geelong vs. Brisbane Lions

[scoman]

First time poster but I've been on here reading for years.

We've been gifting games to too many players on merit and it's those same players that always go missing in big games like these.

Robbo love him but he's done, makes the wrong decisions when ball in hand, rushed kicks forward and doesn't have the capacity to get back quick enough as a winger as he has in the past. Yeah he'll look good against lower ranked teams, do a nice tackle here and there but that shouldn't warrant him getting a game.

Cockatoo is another one, we are waiting for him to be something that his never going to be let's be fair. Would rather be giving games to our younger players than him.

JBerry, I've always rated him highly but again went missing.

Cam Rayner needs to become more consistent, did some good things tonight, but also made some bad errors that possibly cost us the game.

Fullarton, honestly he's just not up to it. He shouldn't play again for us.

Overall the pressure around the ball was non existent, Geelong did what they wanted for most of night. Lucky for their bad kicking that we were still in the game. We are going to have improve if we want to achieve anything this year because if we continue to play like this in games that matter we will always be making up the numbers.

But that's just my take boys.

Harsh but fair. Welcome to the board. I have a similar feel about things myself reflecting in it this morning. We are carrying too many players at this point in time. It's ok to do that with one or two. Not four or five.

 

[scoman]

Geelong is too big and two strong for us. Nothing has changed, they beat us up last year in the qualifying final. They beat us up tonight. They break our tackles like wet paper.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

On paper they aren't. In practice they are. Our physicality is a big issue.

 

[Strato]

IMO I did not think we could win against Geelong last night and did not go to the game. I could go on why we lost but we can all see our issues which standout. I will say that Rayner, Cockatoo need time in the Reserves and Fullarton struggles in the seniors. Geelong had more pace than us and their tackling pressure was great and lowered their eyes going forward where we continue to bomb the ball high all over the ground to packs where it was continually returned. Geelong should have won by 5+ goals. Players that disappear against stronger opposition must be moved on and changes are essential to win a premiership otherwise our chance of winning it is going to pass by. Melbourne is the standout and we are nowhere near them at present so if we continue to go the way we are at present that ultimate success will past us again.

 

[Scubaveg]

It's a long season. We aren't out of it yet, just have to respond to games like this and build momentum. As 3kz said, 3-1 is a good start.

We actually are out of it. The physical limitations we have cannot be rectified in season. We are not big enough, we are two slow and we don’t have the endurance to run both ways and run out a game. We are making up the numbers.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[briztoon]

Fagan out - Clarkson in.

I said this during the game and still feel this way.

First time I’ve felt angry about a performance from this team under Fagan (I was angry at the first Easter Thursday Pies game at the game, but that was towards the refs.).

It’s like we played half paced, and was waiting for them to fade out or something.

Felt we needed to activate our medi sub, either for Berry’s shoulder injury or Ah Chee’s leg injury, and get Dev in to the midfield. We needed a jolt and didn’t get it from the coaches.

I’m not going to say anything else, otherwise I’m likely to really tee off.

 

[briztoon]

IMO I did not think we could win against Geelong last night and did not go to the game. I could go on why we lost but we can all see our issues which standout. I will say that Rayner, Cockatoo need time in the Reserves and Fullarton struggles in the seniors. Geelong had more pace than us and their tackling pressure was great and lowered their eyes going forward where we continue to bomb the ball high all over the ground to packs where it was continually returned. Geelong should have won by 5+ goals. Players that disappear against stronger opposition must be moved on and changes are essential to win a premiership otherwise our chance of winning it is going to pass by. Melbourne is the standout and we are nowhere near them at present so if we continue to go the way we are at present that ultimate success will past us again.

Yup, 6 years in under Fagan and our forward entries are still largely sh!thouse.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Yup, 6 years in under Fagan and our forward entries are still largely sh!thouse.

Adcock’s department. Might need a fresh voice in there.

 

[briztoon]

p.s. only two players deserved votes, DevRob and Marcus Adams

24

Marcus Adams

Age

31

Ht

192cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.8

4star

K

8.1

3star

HB

5.7

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

2.0

4star

MG

240.5

4star

D

5.0

1star

K

2.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

1.0

1star

T

0.0

1star

MG

57.0

1star

D

15.8

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

6.8

5star

M

6.8

5star

T

2.0

4star

MG

235.8

4star

.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

Agree with the comments regarding Fullarton. He is a long way off being AFL standard. Gives absolutely nothing in any area of the game. For his size, I’d expect him to at least impact the marking contest, but sadly he doesn’t do that. Add that to not being able to keep his feet or simply lacking the other fundamentals of the game, and I think it’s fair to say it’s unlikely we see him at the level again. I just cringe anytime he is on the ground.

Rayner was, and has been so far this year, disappointing. Might be taking some time to get back to his best after the knee, but I don’t think we are doing him or us any favours persisting with him in the middle for long stretches right now. He has fantastic hands - I think we should look at putting him forward again more permanently where he can regain confidence and have a couple of really solid games.

I haven’t seen enough of Tom Berry or McFayden recently to know whether they are worth giving a game to. However, I’ve liked what I’ve seen of Dev when he’s been up, and I think he should be given an opportunity to play as that other midfielder we are craving. I actually think Starc could be a really damaging midfielder, but he’s just so good down back I don’t know who would replace him in his role down there.

Perfect opportunity to play Dev last night when Berry was injured, he couldn't even use his arm to handball at one stage.
We got beaten on the outside run ,insert Dev.
He is a machine in pressure acts and defense ,and has the speed or gut running to compete, missed opportunity.
For this reason , last years team was better in the pressure on ball , at this stage.
Time will tell .
Have gone backwoods a tad with playing a couple of players at once coming off long stints on the side line , so you would think give them time, hmm.
Then there is the out of Kiddy, wouldn't he of made a difference .
Probably combine his out with Answerth coming in over Prior and it's a slower, less competative unit back there, offensive and defensive.
Finally ,
We don't play like a well drilled team when the pressure is on, that's going to be the next challenge.

 

[The Zork]

Yup, 6 years in under Fagan and our forward entries are still largely sh!thouse.

Really correct.
Been a constant issue for years.
Fast break happens and you think here’s a goal, surely. Stream forward and somehow mess it up or choose the wrong option.
The good teams, actually most teams, just have better cohesion and execution and I reckon it costs us 1-2 goals a week and the momentum that comes with it.

 

[spotthedog1]

Adams had some intercept possessions (yes BT, intercept is a word, and takeaways can often be more valuable than receiving a cheapie), but he lost his match up. No votes for mine.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

Fagan out - Clarkson in.

I said this during the game and still feel this way. View attachment 1367043

First time I’ve felt angry about a performance from this team under Fagan (I was angry at the first Easter Thursday Pies game at the game, but that was towards the refs.).

It’s like we played half paced, and was waiting for them to fade out or something.

Felt we needed to activate our medi sub, either for Berry’s shoulder injury or Ah Chee’s leg injury, and get Dev in to the midfield. We needed a jolt and didn’t get it from the coaches.

I’m not going to say anything else, otherwise I’m likely to really tee off.

I gave you a like , cause I agree there was opportunity for our coach to do something , not angry at all though.
Or surprised Fages won't do what is required on the day.

 

[dlanod]

yes BT, intercept is a word

At least we learned that BT only considers it an intercept if an opponent kicks it, not if it's a cheap short kick and mark.

...

 

[Warwick]

Might be my old age or the fact we have sat through a decade of putrid performances but I’m much more sanguine after a loss like that.

I still feel we are a much better team and will prove that on any other ground.

Few thoughts:

I was one who believed it wouldn’t have been a disaster if we lost Neale at the end of last year to refresh the midfield - how wrong I was. We must do everything we can to keep him. Star.

Lyons had an off night - the first in 3 seasons. I think we can excuse him for that.. He might have been injured / crook, who knows, but we’ve all had a shit day at work. If you could, I’d put something on him being BOG next Thursday.

I don’t know if it will serve Cam any use to go back and beat up VFL sides. His marking was excellent but we need to get him more involved somehow. Don’t have the answer for that unfortunately. I said a couple of times in the off season how ridiculous it was the amount of press focused on him. Nearly every Lions-related article mentioned how he was ready to tear the competition apart. The bloke is coming off an ACL and has barely strung 2-3 really high quality games together.

McStay - wouldn’t begrudge the bloke leaving if he truly is being offered a 6 year deal, but bloody hell, he’d be in my team.

Can’t believe the shit Daniher cops. He will be key to how far we go this year. Does some stupid things but makes up for it in general play and the knack of kicking a goal when we need it.

Linc is another who will dictate how far we get this year. I reckon he’s one of the few truly elite players we have per the role he plays (Andrews - intercepting defender, Neale - inside mid, Hugh - winger, Cameron - small forward, Rich - small/loose defender the others). He’s a guy that only needs 15 touches to influence a game.

And Dev. This bloke just has it - he reminds me of a less-polished young Black. But he needs to be playing seniors. I honestly think he’s 30 solid AFL games away from almost leading a midfield. I rate him that highly - he just needs exposure to the speed of the game at the top level - he may never absolutely stand out in the 2s. Just his time, hands, positioning… I will be absolutely filthy if he leaves for more opportunity because we aren’t playing him.

 

[Squizz89]

Definitely feels like it’s Lachie or bust right now in terms of winning the ball in the midfield.

Lyons and Hugh have started the year down on what they’ve produced previously.

Jerry I’m not sure will ever make it and that’s mainly because I don’t think his body will ever allow him, whilst Zorko is playing HB on one leg.

With that said then we really need to do something in the middle. They talk all preseason that Cockatoo, Rayner and Bailey would all get more minutes in there. The first two are obviously coming off longer term injuries/ past injuries so it’s understandable they’re not getting as much time, but I’m unsure why Bailey isn’t going in there a whole lot, especially with our lack of pace.

As I said in the Pies changes thread I think we should have a look at Dev and Terry in there with the instructions to go and hunt the ball. They’re naturally good defensive players and will help out defensively but we need to win more of the ball or we are again just making up numbers.

I shudder to think what the Melbourne midfield would do to ours right now.

 

[davemc_lions]

Honestly I did not think we win this start of the season. Nor Melb MCG.

As others have said Rayner and Cockatoo hopefully come good end of season.
Although playing them now between the two we are down a player, some weeks we been covering this not last night.
Do you play them in the VFL for better touch as last night Linc and Charlie went missing as well.
Lucky Daniher, Ah Chee and McStay had great games.

Said earlier when J Berry did his shoulder yes the run with job on Danger was good. Although now down another player to link with.
No idea why you not sub a guy out with one arm.
Mids apart from Neale got another lesson from the Cats.. They done this to us too many times, so too dogs and Demons which is a worry.
Lyons got exposed last night with speed pushing back.. Clugga found he did not have the time he normally does and got caught.
Our tackling sometimes under 15 level. We seen this all before and if not fixed will see again.
M Robbo getting to the age where he will start having these games falling off the pace. most teams got guys who get from one contest to the next playing wing now. Smith was everywhere.

Still not 100% on Zorko off HB some games great although like Birchall last year teams start playing through him.

Our setup to get the ball out after all their behinds was not great.. No use having Rich kick in when 50% of the time you kick in 25m to bail out kick in pocket. Someone needs to be a option. Not just kick to wing on the left option A or Pocket Option B. Then rinse and repeat.

Fullarton not played 1's for a while although I do not think he is ready to be a ruck yet. 1 hitout for the night.
I do think this is a problem we have last year Big O as sole ruck. The backup ruck who at best breaks even exposures us when Oscar rests.
Saw this again last night they have 3 guys who can hold their own and win in ruck. We had Fort.
McStay, Fullarton and Joe at best break even. Hawkins, Blicavs and Stanley can win the ruck and setup plays.

 

[Scubaveg]

Adcock’s department. Might need a fresh voice in there.

I don’t agree delivery into the forward line is Adcock’s department. It’s midfield and defence bringing the ball forward and therefore delivering inside 50.
That said I do agree Adcock should go.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[jjami15]

We really haven’t played well this year (North was an easy kill) as a team. Have we evolved? I wouldn’t say so but what do we put that down to; Fagan’s coaching or is it the cattle we have? I, like some, am frustrated by the lack of development of our younger players and introducing them into the team. Prior looked good down back last year, Dev also started to get a run of games and from VFL watchers T.Berry has come on also. We are still slow and play an outdated style of kick/mark football. This is in part to Fagan IMO and reminds me of the successful Hawks style put their foot skills far out way ours. It’s an outdated game style as I’ve already stated. Do we score from turnover? Not really and this is a marker of a successful team. We win a turnover and constantly slow things down and allow opponents to get back in our defensive fifty. We are usually a good contested team but against the top teams we get beaten more times than not. It’s frustrating being beaten season after season by the same way. I would also go as far to say we lack some real leadership as well. Our two top leaders make some real changers disciplinary decisions and this must impact in the minds of others. We also have some players who don’t play ‘team’ football and are quite selfish. A lot to work on and quite concerned about next week with a younger, quicker team who play that fast style of footbalol.

 

[RU_]

One thing I have noticed with Ah Chee in the opening 4 Rounds that we haven’t seen previously is his ability to break tackles. Starting to enter his prime physically and obviously a lot stronger now. I thought Ah Chee was good last night. I had him in my votes alongside Neale, McStay, Daniher and Adams. Andrews and Starcevich were pretty good as well.

The fourth quarter he stood up and slung two cats players off him like they were nothing, that was impressive.

 

[pod17]

Just want to pull up any poster having a crack at McLuggage. His work rate up and down the ground is phenomenal, he is overcomplicating his disposal at the moment. Hugh needs to get back to first option football. Bags is a gun!

Agreed. Also, the narrow dimensions of Skilled impacted his ability to work wide and then cut back in for that link mark. He just couldn’t find the separation last night.

 

[LongLion]

The game was over when Hawkins realised the umps were rooting for him. Just started blatantly pushing in the back.

The use of the word rooting is an Americanism I really dislike. Just my opinion.

 

[Sanchez365]

Thinking about it last night we really have an elite backline and forward line. However our midfield can be a little bit beige at times. I am starting to get concerned about our ability to go all the way when we can't get control in the center. Without Neale I don't think our mids really strike fear into any team, and while bringing in fresh blood to mix it up isn't something I'm against, not sure how much difference it will make. It was said in the commentary early that geelong literally play through our mids because they know their defensive workrate isn't there, and if a moron like Richo is picking that up, that's not a good sign.

As others have said we were lucky geelong didn't shoot the lights out, but the game followed the same pattern all our games have so far this year. Mids beaten, elite defence then holds up and intercepts, delivers to our elite forwards who win their 1v1s and we score from very few entries. That isn't going to hold up in finals, but its early days in the season so hopefully the mids can play into some form.

Personally I think our midfield issues stem from our rucks. Both McInerny and Fort are great marking targets around the ground and up forward, but both are garbage tap ruckman, which means our mids are immediately on the back foot and can't play aggressive. Noone dares stream through with pace to try and move the ball because they know it's rarely going to get put to our advantage. Fullerton I had hopes for with his basketball background but he was terrible tonight. Against a team like Geelong who also have a weak ruck division, it wasn't a good showing.

Still, after all that we only lost by 10 points in Geelong that could of been turned around with some sliding doors moments in the last. Sky isn't falling, but our mids are still our of form. Don't forget this unit was getting annihilated from center bounce for 3 quarters against North Melbourne...

 

[Nunez]

Geelong had one more player than us attending centre bounces and got more use out of their 6-7th string mids than we did. This is the problem when you rely on Lyons to perform and he doesn't - he doesn't have another position to play so we can give the likes of Bailey or Rayner more time at bounces.

He's quite a consistent player, but we can't rely on him to play well every week. He finished with just one clearance. If he isn't winning the pill, we absolutely need to give other guys more of an opportunity to do so and he needs to rest forward.

 

[Hirsty23]

Dangerous game next week. We are very good at home but this Collingwood team seems to be playing without fear and it should be a really good game of footy again.

Not too worried about last nights loss, it's round 4 and you can't go undefeated playing brilliant footy week in, week out for a whole season. Melbourne lost 2 games to bottom 4 sides, drew another and lost to a depleted GWS at home last year. Can't be in first gear for 22 rounds, it just doesn't happen.

Dropping Rayner is a huge no from me, he's 4 games back from an ACL injury. He needs far more time. I've been really impressed with his overhead marking. If he kicks that goal late we probably talk about how good the signs are. Fine margins.

I do however think that Nakia has now played too many low disposal, low impact games. Robertson in for him is a no brainer for mine, I think he'd have more impact at present and also has a bigger upside.

Ins:
Big O, Dev Rob

Out:
Fullarton, Nakia

 

[martinson]

Defensive running from our mids has been a problem all along in clutch matches . We don't have the cattle to do it. We have 2 guys not getting a game who can do it. Whether they're really up to it ,or whether it will take them a few games or a season (probably likely) to settle in who knows. But the penny should have dropped for the brains trust by now that the current lot can't through fitness levels or capacity and it's about time a couple were given a shake up.

I also think Robbo's just about done. We've lost 5 of 6 finals and I was perfectly prepared to wait for the expected explosion of guys who were entering their prime years .We run the risk of it not happening and having the same issues that get exploited come September.