Preview Round 4, 2023: Geelong v Hawthorn, MCG 3:20pm Easter Monday 10th April

[Simon Crawshay]

Cameron is far ahead of our rucks currently, it's an unarguable fact.

When he finally emerged as Collingwood's primary ruckman in round 7 (following Grundy's injury) he averaged/totalled across the last 19 games, including finals:

14.2 touches
3.9 marks
3.9 tackles
2.8 clearances
21.2 hit outs
and kicked 14 goals (20 in total)

When our rucks hit double digit possessions, kick 20 goals for the season (Cameron has done this twice) and take 5-odd marks a game then we can claim they are close. Until then they aren't. The fact that he's older and more experienced doesn't change this reality.

Yeh if those are the numbers of a bloody average ruck I’d hate to see what rating Meek and Reeves would get with their current output!

I reckon there are five grades of rucks these days.

1. The absolute elite - Gawn
2. The very good - Grundy, Darcy, English
3. The good - Nankervis, Cameron, Goldstein
4. The average - Pittonet, Hickey
5. Below average - rather not say

We just need one of Reeves and Meek to get somewhere around the good mark and it will change the whole dynamic of the side.

 

[KermitJagger]

The point in question is whether Cameron is much better than our three rucks - the answer is absolutely unequivocally yes, he is much better right now.

The age is irrelevant in this regard.

Yes our three have three years on him, so they will hopefully improve just like Cameron did. But as it stands they aren't close, which is the point that was being discussed.

Bullshit. You've been making the point for weeks that if a ruck isn't good by now they're probably not gonna be good. Crawshay was making the argument a few pages ago that we can't wait 3 years for them to really kick off. If that was the case Cameron would never have made it as a player so it's an extremely relevant point.

Irrespective of all that, Reeves is currently and has previously performed better than Cameron at the same age. I provided some stats before.

I know how good you are at it, but you can't choose to dismiss that argument when it's convenient for you.

 

[peetoo]

LOL!
Just saw the awful pump up for the cats on Monday....the AFL dosen't know what it is any more...in the age of no fighting
football and health and safety, the promo clip advocates for a bloodbath. Hilarious!

*But...I also hope the Cats do bring thier 'A' game...it's better for our groups experience to play teams at their best

It’s very hypocrotical

 

[tommyk72]

Fair enough. Part of this is I missed the early 2000s low period and rebuild I was overseas and no coverage like today just news reports so I am excited to embrace the ride and watch the development. Also it’s getting tough to see where the end of year list changes come from I could see almost anyone making it which is exciting in and of itself. Sorry back to the game, Finn to danger wipe that smug look of his face!

I think in the initial phase you're right. But same was quoted in the off season as saying that he thinks he now has the cattle (pretty much) to get us to a flag. It's now about continuity in the team, game plan, and a few last key pieces. Hence why I think TheFourPillars is saying what he's saying.

The one thing I find interesting is that we've got all of our mids prior to getting the key forwards/backs properly in place. I would have thought we'd get the tall timber first, given they take longer to mature. But maybe we'll book end with a couple of key talls this year (depending where we finish) and then some more mids next year.

 

[hawker11]

If you’re umming ahhhing about turning up Monday - show up. Show the boys support and demonstrate to the afl that we are a strong MCG tenant irrespective of ladder position.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

If you’re umming ahhhing about turning up Monday - show up. Show the boys support and demonstrate to the afl that we are a strong MCG tenant irrespective of ladder position.

GET THERE

 

[Rocket72]

Well, Cameron is 27. Let's have a look at what he was doing at the same age as Meek and Reeves...


8 disposals... 6 hit outs a game. Hmm.

Didn’t he play more as a forward back then?

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Didn’t he play more as a forward back then?

Yes.

 

[suburb whispers]

We will win this.

 

[SpanishBrowne]

If you’re umming ahhhing about turning up Monday - show up. Show the boys support and demonstrate to the afl that we are a strong MCG tenant irrespective of ladder position.

Flying down from Sydney for it. Can’t wait to see them 0-4

 

[KermitJagger]

Didn’t he play more as a forward back then?

No, he didn't play at all essentially.

 

[KermitJagger]

You can laugh react all you want HODGEYROAD but the double and triple down you've done after the pathetic nepotism calls on Reeves are embarrassing. Part of me hopes his next 10 games are average at best so we all get the best of your Eeyore shtick before you go.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

You can laugh react all you want HODGEYROAD but the double and triple down you've done after the pathetic nepotism calls on Reeves are embarrassing. Part of me hopes his next 10 games are average at best so we all get the best of your Eeyore shtick before you go.

It's not just hodgeyroad. There's half a dozen that can't stand Reeves but give older more experienced players a free pass

 

[FB19]

I think in the initial phase you're right. But same was quoted in the off season as saying that he thinks he now has the cattle (pretty much) to get us to a flag. It's now about continuity in the team, game plan, and a few last key pieces. Hence why I think TheFourPillars is saying what he's saying.

The one thing I find interesting is that we've got all of our mids prior to getting the key forwards/backs properly in place. I would have thought we'd get the tall timber first, given they take longer to mature. But maybe we'll book end with a couple of key talls this year (depending where we finish) and then some more mids next year.

I think that’s the preferable order but if you look at the league how many a grade kpfs are there? It’s not that easy to find one let alone have the right pick to take them.

 

[Winged Fang]

I hope we play Weddle, why not play the kid on Easter Monday..

Weddle to Smith? An out and out runfest?!

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Bullshit. You've been making the point for weeks that if a ruck isn't good by now they're probably not gonna be good. Crawshay was making the argument a few pages ago that we can't wait 3 years for them to really kick off. If that was the case Cameron would never have made it as a player so it's an extremely relevant point.

Irrespective of all that, Reeves is currently and has previously performed better than Cameron at the same age. I provided some stats before.

I know how good you are at it, but you can't choose to dismiss that argument when it's convenient for you.

Sixpence literally said:

Cameron is bloody average and isn't that far ahead of ours.

In response Simon Crawshay literally said:

You are kidding yourself if you think Cameron isn’t streets ahead of where Reeves and Meek currently are.

To which you made your response, missing the initial point.

It was a damn simple discussion to follow. Read it again and you'll see we were talking about right now. Not three years. Now.

I know how good you are at it, but you can't choose to dismiss the actual point being discussed only to try and twist things around in an attempt to make some other point.

 

[Dewnior]

The one thing I find interesting is that we've got all of our mids prior to getting the key forwards/backs properly in place. I would have thought we'd get the tall timber first, given they take longer to mature. But maybe we'll book end with a couple of key talls this year (depending where we finish) and then some more mids next year.

We had the midfield core back in 04 before we added Rough and Bud.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

I think in the initial phase you're right. But same was quoted in the off season as saying that he thinks he now has the cattle (pretty much) to get us to a flag. It's now about continuity in the team, game plan, and a few last key pieces. Hence why I think TheFourPillars is saying what he's saying.

The one thing I find interesting is that we've got all of our mids prior to getting the key forwards/backs properly in place. I would have thought we'd get the tall timber first, given they take longer to mature. But maybe we'll book end with a couple of key talls this year (depending where we finish) and then some more mids next year.

I like it. These mids will play together for 10 years.

Good kp players will want to come to hawthorn in a year or 2.

Also, dont forget, our most talented young fwd (Lewis) and talented young defender (dgb) were drafted before these mids and will be hitting their peak at a similar time

Sent from my SM-G990E using Tapatalk

 

[Judd2Sewell]

I think in the initial phase you're right. But same was quoted in the off season as saying that he thinks he now has the cattle (pretty much) to get us to a flag. It's now about continuity in the team, game plan, and a few last key pieces. Hence why I think TheFourPillars is saying what he's saying.

The one thing I find interesting is that we've got all of our mids prior to getting the key forwards/backs properly in place. I would have thought we'd get the tall timber first, given they take longer to mature. But maybe we'll book end with a couple of key talls this year (depending where we finish) and then some more mids next year.

There weren't many KPP's available in 2021 and 2022.

The players taken after Ward were:

• Jye Amiss (KPF), at 8
• Josh Gibcus (KPD), at 9
• Leek Aleer (KPD), at 15
• Jacob van Rooyen (KPF/D), at 19

The players taken after Mackenzie were:

• Jedd Busslinger (KPD), at 13
• Matthew Jefferson (KPF), at 15

Keeping in mind we had taken a KPD with our first in the 2020 draft. I think we had multiple areas to address on the list, including young quality midfielders, so there was no chance we'd potentially reach for a KPP with our firsts in 2021 and 2022.

 

[Hawked Wings]

Chad for Finn looks like the only change for me. Let’s run these old bastards off their legs. Stewart the worry down back as he just intercepts everything but hopefully Greene can crash the packs like last week, for a 186cm undersized forward I thought he was terrific last week

 

[Sixpence]

Sixpence literally said:



In response Simon Crawshay literally said:



To which you made your response, missing the initial point.

It was a damn simple discussion to follow. Read it again and you'll see we were talking about right now. Not three years. Now.

I know how good you are at it, but you can't choose to dismiss the actual point being discussed only to try and twist things around in an attempt to make some other point.

The conversation was actually about the claim our rucks are the worst in the league. My initial point was that Cox and Cameron were injured and Collingwood don't have anyone else (which we saw last night). Their stocks aren't great. You and SC ignored this point and focused on my Cameron call, who I maintain is average and not the benchmark for what I want our rucks to become.

I'll repeat, our rucks are doing their job in the ruck. Let's give them some time to improve their work around the ground.

 

[Jazzfan]

Scrimshaw to the forward line anyone? Has very sticky hands and with our inability for anyone bar Greene to take a mark inside 50 might be worth a shot in Lewis' absence

No chance given how much better we looked with him back in defence.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

The conversation was actually about the claim our rucks are the worst in the league. My initial point was that Cox and Cameron were injured and Collingwood don't have anyone else (which we saw last night). Their stocks aren't great. You and SC ignored this point and focused on my Cameron call, who I maintain is average and not the benchmark for what I want our rucks to become.

I'll repeat, our rucks are doing their job in the ruck. Let's give them some time to improve their work around the ground.

Obviously I disagree regarding the gap between Cameron and our three senior rucks at the moment. Though I agree that the benchmark should be higher.

But at the end of the day even if they aren't considered top 10 rucks in three/four years time it won't be the end of the world, as I believe our midfield unit will be more than good enough anyway.

 

[Brucie Buffer]

Just to keep him interested. I would prefer to see him go back to VFL and play in defence and try and win a spot in the lineup as KPD.

Glad to see Weddle named, would not mind him debuting and wingard being the Sub.

Why is Bramble named as an in, was his game against North that unnoticeable?

 

[Sixpence]

Why is Bramble named as an in, was his game against North that unnoticeable?

I think it's a quirk of the sub, they're not in the original 22, so counted as an in even if they do play.