Preview Round 5, 2017: Hawthorn v West Coast Eagles , 23 April 2017, 4.40pm @ MCG

[OzJohnnie]

Chip has showed in spurts with us that he still has top end quality, but on more occasions than not he has been underwhelming. He isn't long enough to really kill contests against the monsters, he is poor by foot, gives away free kick after free kick. Despite the bombardment our defence has cooled KB has out performed Chip 2fold, he has easily been our most stable and reliable defender.

There's plenty of good quality key backs in the league, most clubs have them. Thompson x2, Talia/Hartigan, Rance, Mackenzie, Mcgoven/Barass, Carlisle, May, Mcdonald x2, Lonergan, Tarrant, Schade/Reid, Tomlinson etc etc I could go on and on. It simply comes down to the fact our recruiters don't value the big key backs, they have relied more on team defence and tweener types to peel off to kill the contest. This isn't working now, and it wasn't working last year.

A genuine question: Do you actually think the Hawthorn coaching staff are morons? If KB is "easily" our best defender, yet the coaches don't play that way either you're wrong or they are. There's no middle ground. So I'm genuinely curious as to your position on the competency of the coaching staff.

 

[lethalselbow]

Chip has showed in spurts with us that he still has top end quality, but on more occasions than not he has been underwhelming. He isn't long enough to really kill contests against the monsters, he is poor by foot, gives away free kick after free kick. Despite the bombardment our defence has cooled KB has out performed Chip 2fold, he has easily been our most stable and reliable defender.

There's plenty of good quality key backs in the league, most clubs have them. Thompson x2, Talia/Hartigan, Rance, Mackenzie, Mcgoven/Barass, Carlisle, May, Mcdonald x2, Lonergan, Tarrant, Schade/Reid, Tomlinson etc etc I could go on and on. It simply comes down to the fact our recruiters don't value the big key backs, they have relied more on team defence and tweener types to peel off to kill the contest. This isn't working now, and it wasn't working last year.

The defense has been under the pump all year as every time they get the ball out, the mids and forward line don't do their job. Hard to defend, again and again and again, when you get no reward for effort.

Not sure singling out players, in the last few weeks, is particularly fair. Problem is bigger and different then that.

 

[tige19]

A genuine question: Do you actually think the Hawthorn coaching staff are morons? If KB is "easily" our best defender, yet the coaches don't play that way either you're wrong or they are. There's no middle ground. So I'm genuinely curious as to your position on the competency of the coaching staff.

You're very black and white right? I'm talking about the season we're currently in, season 2017. KB has outperformed Chip, how is that in question?

On the coaching staff, im not sold on the crop surrounding Clarko. We've lost some brilliant football intelligence, there's no doubting that has an effect. On Clarko there's no doubt what so ever.

Question for you. Do you think Chip has performed better than KB this year?

 

[tige19]

The defense has been under the pump all year as every time they get the ball out, the mids and forward line don't do their job. Hard to defend, again and again and again, when you get no reward for effort.

Not sure singling out players, in the last few weeks, is particularly fair. Problem is bigger and different then that.

And no doubt you're spot on.. but despite the avalanche of inside 50s against us, our defence is still a shambles. You somewhat expect to stop the bleeding a little wouldn't you? The only one that seems to have composure and the willingness to compete for a full match is KB, is it because he's playing for his spot? He's on edge a little? Gibbo and Chip spend half the time pointing at others and looking aimlessly around for others who should be impacting the contest, it's the old "not me not me" cop out.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Scoring graphs from the first 4 games. Clarko's priority must be addressing our second half 'fadeouts' (a generous description of them)

Too much pointless backwards running and going wide when trying to bring the ball forward. Constraast the the only rally good quarter (Q1 vs adelaide) where we were direct.

 

[Mrzohs]

And no doubt you're spot on.. but despite the avalanche of inside 50s against us, our defence is still a shambles. You somewhat expect to stop the bleeding a little wouldn't you? The only one that seems to have composure and the willingness to compete for a full match is KB, is it because he's playing for his spot? He's on edge a little? Gibbo and Chip spend half the time pointing at others and looking aimlessly around for others who should be impacting the contest, it's the old "not me not me" cop out.

Spot on tigr! the fact that kb is playing out the full match comes to him being young and playing for his spot. Special mention r.burton he been enormours and probably our best.
Its no suprise the two young fellas are our best performed down back. (They are not damged buy the off season and they simply want to win and keep there spot) so to put it simple play
howe willsmore jor in the midfield and look at gibbo, silk, shiels, poppy etc to make way with

 

[savagelunchbox]

Nick Foote umpiring Hawthorn for the 3rd or 4th time this weekend.

That's highly suspicious.

Troy Pannell is umpiring too. Expect some head-scratchers, especially seeing as it's WCE.

 

[Mr Lizard]

Do you think Chip has performed better than KB this year?

Brand has only played two games, Chip four.

Chip gets the best forward also.

If Brand was the all-Australian free agent signing, and Chip was the less-than-twenty-gamer, you would be calling for Brand's head.

 

[westhawk]

Too much pointless backwards running and going wide when trying to bring the ball forward. Constraast the the only rally good quarter (Q1 vs adelaide) where we were direct.

Totally agree mate. We stuff around in the middle of the ground going side to side and backwards. This is because our forwards have pushed up the ground. I just want to see a couple of key forwards stay close to goal and then we can go the long ball and have Cyril and Bruest at the fall of it. The quality is up there for sure but the game plan of pushing everyone up the ground is crap.

 

[Taskmaster]

So basically everyone in the football world, including some of the greats of our club have had their say and had a bit of a crack at our year so far. Some individuals have come under some scrutiny as well.

If this does not prick the pride and re ignite some sort of fire and fight, then unfortunately, I'm not sure what will??

I really don't care if we lose (Well I do) but all I want to see is effort, a bit of fight, make the oppo have to beat us, not just be witches hats they run around. To completely capitulate and show no interest at all....... I don't know, maybe I'm asking to much?

Oh and as for our gameplan, since when does Clarko try and copy someone else ie the Dogs. Time to go back to what we know and tinker with that. It works!!

 

[savagelunchbox]

Opposition tall forwards haven't been taking easy, uncontested marks at the top of the goal square since Brand come in.

Just sayin'.

According to one poster, he drops his head in marking contests. Still waiting for that evidence to back up this claim...

 

[woosha24]

Nick Foote umpiring Hawthorn for the 3rd or 4th time this weekend.

That's highly suspicious.

Troy Pannell is umpiring too. Expect some head-scratchers, especially seeing as it's WCE.

Excuse the intrusion, but fair go guys, we haven't even gotten on the plane yet!

Expecting us to sh*t the bed early against a fired-up Hawks side, the MCG gives our boys night terrors! Still think we'll win (just), but we are going to make your mob look a million bucks on the day.

 

[La Vache]

Opposition tall forwards haven't been taking easy, uncontested marks at the top of the goal square since Brand come in.

Just sayin'.

According to one poster, he drops his head in marking contests. Still waiting for that evidence to back up this claim...

He did a couple of times last season. Have not noticed any this year.

 

[burger09]

Excuse the intrusion, but fair go guys, we haven't even gotten on the plane yet!

Expecting us to sh*t the bed early against a fired-up Hawks side, the MCG gives our boys night terrors! Still think we'll win (just), but we are going to make your mob look a million bucks on the day.

Think you'll be surprised, like we are, at how ordinary we are playing.

We're just hoping it doesn't get really ugly.

If you don't beat us at the G this week, you never will.

 

[OzJohnnie]

You're very black and white right? I'm talking about the season we're currently in, season 2017. KB has outperformed Chip, how is that in question?

On the coaching staff, im not sold on the crop surrounding Clarko. We've lost some brilliant football intelligence, there's no doubting that has an effect. On Clarko there's no doubt what so ever.

Question for you. Do you think Chip has performed better than KB this year?

I'm not that one that made the binary argument, I merely pointed it out. But black and white aside...

I think Chip, along with Gibbo, have carried far more responsibility this year than the new defenders. They are being caught out more because they are carrying the more structurally important responsibilities. They are seen directing traffic and pointing out missed assignments because they are directing defensive traffic and teaching new players where to play in the setup. They are getting beat more 1-on-1 because they play it more, knowing when to double up having seen a new defender out matched while the new guy is less confident leaving his assignment to help out.

All of these defensive chemistry and assignment issues can only be worked out with time and experience, obviously. KB has played two games in this transitional regime. Same for Miles. Duryea. Birchall. Hardwick one. Burton has only played four, but then so have Frawley, Stratton and Gibson. The whole back line is transitioning. New roles and responsibilities are being learned. Greater patience is needed.

So, in response to your specific question: Yes, I think Chip has performed better. I think this because so much more has been asked of him. His responsibility is so much higher. As a matter of fact, as KB continues to improve then Chip will as well because KB will take increasing responsibilities and Chip can take fewer.

It's a team sport, after all. The players must be largely judged by how they fit into and sustain the overall game plan. Without Chip the backline would likely fall into a complete rabble as the far less suited Stratton or Gibson would need to take his last-line "managerial" responsobilities and play the big gorilla.

 

[savagelunchbox]

Excuse the intrusion, but fair go guys, we haven't even gotten on the plane yet!

Expecting us to sh*t the bed early against a fired-up Hawks side, the MCG gives our boys night terrors! Still think we'll win (just), but we are going to make your mob look a million bucks on the day.

Fair go. Your team duck their heads to exploit the rules in your favour. Everyone but the umpires seem to know this and Pannell is easily the most exploitable for this sort of manipulation. He's a gullible fool.

I haven't said that WCE will get an advantage from the umpires, nor have I said it will effect the game's result. All I'm saying is Pannell is a gullible umpire that will fall for and reward those teams who have practiced exploiting the interpretations of the rules to their advantage. The Eagles, Crows, Dogs, North and Cats are the clubs that do this more than others.

If you disagree, I don't care. Don't respond. Instead, go back to the Eagles board and complain.

 

[satan1]

Maybe it is finally time for rough to head back.

 

[MasterSamurai]

Fair go. Your team duck their heads to exploit the rules in your favour. Everyone but the umpires seem to know this and Pannell is easily the most exploitable for this sort of manipulation. He's a gullible fool.

I haven't said that WCE will get an advantage from the umpires, nor have I said it will effect the game's result. All I'm saying is Pannell is a gullible umpire that will fall for and reward those teams who have practiced exploiting the interpretations of the rules to their advantage. The Eagles, Crows, Dogs, North and Cats are the clubs that do this more than others.

If you disagree, I don't care. Don't respond. Instead, go back to the Eagles board and complain.

surely it cant be any worse than Razor Ray's head scratchers from last week!!? Hardwick tackle was copy book brilliant and the deliberate rushed behind against Gibbo was atrocious. How about Rough getting Mackie caught with the ball 20m out from our goal then ended up being a goal to Geelong??

 

[savagelunchbox]

surely it cant be any worse than Razor Ray's head scratchers from last week!!? Hardwick tackle was copy book brilliant and the deliberate rushed behind against Gibbo was atrocious. How about Rough getting Mackie caught with the ball 20m out from our goal then ended up being a goal to Geelong??

Razor is an attention seeking who loves air time. That deliberate rushed behind, he sprinted 40m to where he would be on camera before pausing and signalling.

Razor is fine if it's not a standalone game in a prime time slot.

 

[woosha24]

Fair go. Your team duck their heads to exploit the rules in your favour. Everyone but the umpires seem to know this and Pannell is easily the most exploitable for this sort of manipulation. He's a gullible fool.

I haven't said that WCE will get an advantage from the umpires, nor have I said it will effect the game's result. All I'm saying is Pannell is a gullible umpire that will fall for and reward those teams who have practiced exploiting the interpretations of the rules to their advantage. The Eagles, Crows, Dogs, North and Cats are the clubs that do this more than others.

If you disagree, I don't care. Don't respond. Instead, go back to the Eagles board and complain.

Harsh, mate. Just came to have some bantz, why the hate? Lets just wait and see what the umps are up to on the day.

Looking forward to a cracking game. Expecting it to be close and fiery.

 

[Lethality]

Maybe it is finally time for rough to head back.

I have been pushing for this for a while, but right now we don't need another KPD. If anything it's time for him to play in the midfield. He may not have the tank for it, but at least he'd be getting involved.

 

[tige19]

Brand has only played two games, Chip four.

Chip gets the best forward also.

If Brand was the all-Australian free agent signing, and Chip was the less-than-twenty-gamer, you would be calling for Brand's head.

On all evidence for this season I would not, I call it how I see it and I see Chip getting taken to the cleaners in season 2017.

 

[tige19]

Opposition tall forwards haven't been taking easy, uncontested marks at the top of the goal square since Brand come in.

Just sayin'.

According to one poster, he drops his head in marking contests. Still waiting for that evidence to back up this claim...

Brand has been excellent, he and Burton can hold there heads up.

 

[satan1]

I have been pushing for this for a while, but right now we don't need another KPD. If anything it's time for him to play in the midfield. He may not have the tank for it, but at least he'd be getting involved.

Agree, sorry was being facetious to point out we have a monster should these big opposition forward be are problem.

Team selection in general ain't the reason we are losing so badly, we need to get the ball and use it well. All of a sudden your defense can defend.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Opposition tall forwards haven't been taking easy, uncontested marks at the top of the goal square since Brand come in.

Just sayin'.

According to one poster, he drops his head in marking contests. Still waiting for that evidence to back up this claim...

In trying to look for the good amidst all the obvious bad - brand's inclusion has been great. He's performed well and the defence has looked a lot better against high balls.