Preview Round 5, 2017: Hawthorn v West Coast Eagles , 23 April 2017, 4.40pm @ MCG

[Snibs]

I'm suggesting we will.

Based on?

 

[TazHawk15]

I'm suggesting we might

Stop sitting on the fence.

 

[TazHawk15]

Based on?

Gut feel.

 

[TazHawk15]

Nah I've gone off 4 weeks of evidence.

Fair enough.

We will know more after Sunday.

 

[mikeder]

Besides personalities, I think the challenge is quite different. Lake entered a cohesive side just off a grand final appearance with only one responsibility - play the gorilla. The gorilla defender was desperately lacking in 2012 (as Schoey would be able to testify, I'm sure). But other than that, it was a seasoned and ready defense in its prime. To demonstrate the difference between 2013 and 2017...

The GF in 2013:
* Birchall, 8th season
* Burgoyne, 12th season (4th at Hawthorn)
* Gibson, 8th season (4th at Hawthorn)
* Guerra, 14th season (8th at Hawthorn)
* Hodge, 12th season
* Stratton, 4th season

Stepping into that? His job was "easy" with five defensive partners in their prime and one aging warrior. Yes, that's the GF side but it's the side/game we remember and with one or two out in any week it was still the most rock solid defense you could assemble. And it still had two more good years to run.

The first four games in 2017:
* Birchall, 14th season (2 games)
* Burgoyne, 16th season (4 games)
* Duryea, 5th season (1 game)
* Gibson, 12th season (4 games)
* Sicily, 3rd season (2 games)
* Burton, 2cd season (3 games)
* Miles, 1st season (1 game)
* Stratton, 8th season (4 games)
* Brand, 2cd season (2 games)

In that bunch Frawley has one defensive partner, Stratton, that is in his prime. Three aging warriors. One possible partner in prime (Duryea). And four noobs.

Frawley's team challenge as the pivot around which all the others rotate is a world of difference from the one that Lake faced. Lake was a monster, I loved watching him play and miss him sorely. But he had teammates primed to let him do his best. And he did. Frawley faces the challenge of breaking in a new backline while the old-guard holds on as long as they can. It's a whole 'nother world.

Unfortunately Chip doesn't have the height to be a monster like Lake was, he has the size but not the height to go with it.

 

[mikeder]

I don't think we need to be 'fired up', how about finding a level we can maintain, and playing four quarters?

Some of the more experienced players might be feeling the grind, how about mixing things up a bit, and sending Breust or Puopolo into the midfield, to freshen them up mentally, or allowing Shiels to run and hunt the football instead of playing so defensively, etc. Clarkson has changed roles in the past for this reason, with some success.

Clarko is changing roles to the detriment of the team now without success; he must put players back in their traditional roles otherwise we will just go on as we are now "L".

 

[mikeder]

I completely agree with you 100%. Expect since we have no early draft picks next year and we did not get rid of Sammy or Lewis due to salary cap constraints that we have a lot of spare cash and so will be big into someone like Trengove from Port. We then only need to find a class small defender with speed and skills and we are back on track down back.

Looks as though KB might take up the monster role in defense as he grows more into the position, as I saw him more than willing to take on Porkings in an argy bargy tussle last Monday "CLA".

 

[mikeder]

Fair enough.

We will know more after Sunday.

Although I highly rate Chip as a defender, he just doesn't seem to have that nasty grunt that the likes of Lake had to grab the Hawks defense by the throat and lead them along as a successful squad. He's a really valuable team member but not a team leader like Hodge has been for the whole Hawks team; Hodge has been the epitome of the "unsociable Hawk" label for the whole team.

 

[Brishawk]

Clarko is changing roles to the detriment of the team now without success; he must put players back in their traditional roles otherwise we will just go on as we are now "L".

What is success? He is trying to build the next premiership side not meet your need for instant success. Now is exactly the right time to be trying thing s to see how they work. The results don't matter but learning something is valuable.

 

[mikeder]

What is success? He is trying to build the next premiership side not meet your need for instant success. Now is exactly the right time to be trying thing s to see how they work. The results don't matter but learning something is valuable.

Hardly expecting instant success! Clarko was stuffing around with players positions all last season too eg. Gunner who had a quiet year by his standards. A final was in front of us last year until Smithy missed that shot for goal. Was a bit remiss of him trying to build a premiership side when it is already there on a plate as it was last year. You don't try to fix things when you are on a roll.

 

[HeHateMe]

Got a good feeling this week.

I've never been a Hartung fan but for some reason i think he will turn the corner this week and have a big game in a Hawthorn win.

 

[tige19]

100% with mikeder

I don't subscribe to people on here who are willing to shoot Clarko down, he has the track record and is an out and legend, possibly legend status with the AFL in years to come, but there has been some strange head scratchers in terms of player positioning. I look at the Crows and see how traditional they set up, they maul teams going forward, they always seem to have numbers in the front half and you rarely see Tex/Eddie/Jenkins further than 70 meters away from goals. Who can tell me that our forward line isn't as talented as the Crows? Tell me? We are just as talented as those gooses. Frustrates me no end, in fact, I'm about to lose the plot talking about it.

Gunno/Ruff/Punky/Pop/Sic/Rioli - Who can honestly say the Crows have the better forward line? Seriously shits me to tears, even their midfield isn't amazing, they have a bunch of battlers, no standouts outside of Sloane. Crouch boys are solid plodders, Thompson hasn't even played, Cameron is up and down but a talent. Who else do they have? Jesus, I just feel if we set up traditionally we'd be alot more competitive.

 

[satan1]

Hardly expecting instant success! Clarko was stuffing around with players positions all last season too eg. Gunner who had a quiet year by his standards. A final was in front of us last year until Smithy missed that shot for goal. Was a bit remiss of him trying to build a premiership side when it is already there on a plate as it was last year. You don't try to fix things when you are on a roll.

"If it ain't broke, fix it anyway" was a quote of his in the preseason.

I think we have reached the point where the players are flexible enough to cover injury, time to play the best players in their best positions.

The round 1 team was a classic "Best 22 players on paper take the field", it's not the AA team, no wonder they look a little confused.

 

[Brishawk]

Hardly expecting instant success! Clarko was stuffing around with players positions all last season too eg. Gunner who had a quiet year by his standards. A final was in front of us last year until Smithy missed that shot for goal. Was a bit remiss of him trying to build a premiership side when it is already there on a plate as it was last year. You don't try to fix things when you are on a roll.

Clarko has always moved players around. Gunston spent a lot of time running up into defence in 2015 too. We were not good enough to win the flag last year. Geelong weren't good enough to win the flag last year. It's not unreasonable to think Clarko was looking for improvement last year that may have gotten us closer. In any case sending Lewis and Mitchell off was clearly an indication he is building a new squad and he wants to know who can do what.

 

[mikeder]

Clarko has always moved players around. Gunston spent a lot of time running up into defence in 2015 too. We were not good enough to win the flag last year. Geelong weren't good enough to win the flag last year. It's not unreasonable to think Clarko was looking for improvement last year that may have gotten us closer. In any case sending Lewis and Mitchell off was clearly an indication he is building a new squad and he wants to know who can do what.

I still say keep players in their SUCCESSFUL set positions. Sure, try out players who as yet have no set position, but FFS leave successful players where they have been playing well for a few years to the overall gain of the club.

 

[Brishawk]

I still say keep players in their SUCCESSFUL set positions. Sure, try out players who as yet have no set position, but FFS leave successful players where they have been playing well for a few years to the overall gain of the club.

You just haven't paid attention to hawthorn during our premiership years. What players genuinely played the same position all game every week? A couple of the talls? Pretty much no one else. When Burgoyne went into the middle someone had to go back. We would never have know roughy was a good midfielder unless we tried him in the midfield. By your logic we should have just left him playing forward and not looked for a way to improve the side. Because that is what this is all about, improving the side not the player. Although it did also improve roughy. Just suck up the losses and the pain knowing it is part of player development.

 

[OzJohnnie]

Clarko has always moved players around. Gunston spent a lot of time running up into defence in 2015 too. We were not good enough to win the flag last year. Geelong weren't good enough to win the flag last year. It's not unreasonable to think Clarko was looking for improvement last year that may have gotten us closer. In any case sending Lewis and Mitchell off was clearly an indication he is building a new squad and he wants to know who can do what.

Even earlier than that. You could say that Gunston's efforts in defense in the opening minutes of the 2014 Grand Final were key to setting the tone for the whole day. The :20 mark of the highlight video.



This playing out of position is not new to the Hawks. Player versatility was a key strength through the last few years.

 

[mikeder]

A prominent Geelong supporter mentioned to me last week before our game, that he has noticed that Gunston seems to be playing out of position and is happy about that because when he is playing up forward that's when they have fear as supporters.

 

[Brishawk]

A prominent Geelong supporter mentioned to me last week before our game, that he has noticed that Gunston seems to be playing out of position and is happy about that because when he is playing up forward that's when they have fear as supporters.

That is because both he and you are thinking about a match and a player, not a premiership and a team. Short term v goal orientated thinking.

 

[OzJohnnie]

It must be 5:30 on Thursday because I've managed to work myself into that feeling that we'll take this weekend like a hurricane. Guaranteed chocolates.

I love the fact that I can attain a zen state of raging optimism by Thursday. I enter every weekend thinking we're a chance of winning by 100. Of course, the last two weekends have kicked me pretty hard, but I've managed to come raging back.

 

[mikeder]

That is because both he and you are thinking about a match and a player, not a premiership and a team. Short term v goal orientated thinking.

You have your opinion and I as a 59 year Member/supporter have mine.

 

[illnino]

I see Willsmore racked up 30+ this past weekend. If he can back it up over the next couple of weeks, that'd be great.

I'll have a crack at ins and outs;

Out: O'Brien, Hardwick
In: Vickery, O'Meara

Personally, I wouldn't be against either O'Brien and/or Hardwick staying in and getting a run of games. Also wouldn't be against any of Stewart, Miles, O'Rourke, Howe, Glass, Schoey or Fitzy coming in for some of our underperforming elder statesmen.

 

[tige19]

It must be 5:30 on Thursday because I've managed to work myself into that feeling that we'll take this weekend like a hurricane. Guaranteed chocolates.

I love the fact that I can attain a zen state of raging optimism by Thursday. I enter every weekend thinking we're a chance of winning by 100. Of course, the last two weekends have kicked me pretty hard, but I've managed to come raging back.

Haha, I do the same.. But, I am genuinely excited at the prospect of JOR surprising everyone and turning himself into a 25+ps inside/out mid by seasons end.

 

[TheExtractorFactor]

Mitch isn't playing. Not sure how I feel about it

 

[Hawks1994]

Mitchell out. Boo West Coast!