Autopsy Round 5, 2021: Hawthorn defeated by Melbourne

[AlwaysHawks15]

So you think the fact we've been able to hold much better teams like Richmond, Geelong and Demons for large parts of games should be just glossed over to a group of developing players?

I doubt it. Clarkson and all our fans know, or at least should know, we are a work in progress, and that theres' a gap in class between us and the top level teams. We will have moments where we can execute well and moments where we will not.

Today's result was not unexpected, and the players will be once again told that they've done so much of the game well, but let themselves down here, here and here, for example.

That was always what this season was about, and it's a little crazy to me that we're 5 rounds in and we've already got people losing that context.

Just an opinion. You dont need to shut it down because you dont agree with it. We all are looking at the future through different lenses.

 

[Mrzohs]

Unfortunately a couple of key moments resulted in two goals turnaround.
The Endeavour was there the class wasn't. I am very concerned with our rucks/fwds/mids setup.
May have to make some bold decisions moving fwd with similar personal in
spots.
I thought Scrimshaw and Hanrahan competed well.

 

[eldorado]

 

[TylerDurden]

But he isnt rattling the cage because than its an admission he stuffed up. Im not seeing the fire in the belly from him anymore to make this club the pinnacle of the sport again. Seems like he is allowing his ego to get the better of him and doing whats best for Clarko and not the club. Its why he persists with Turkeys like O Brien and trying to get Silk to his 400th. The club has turned into the testimonial of the threepeat era hanging onto deadweight for no real reason other than what i just posted above. Thats extremely harsh on a great of the club but thats reality. Silk doesnt deserve to go out with a whimper like this and it makes me sick watching it.

It's 2 pronged.
Firstly it's gameplan, and that is all on Clarko. We're conservative with the footy, and that is in part due to simply not having the cattle who can execute.

Secondly it's the list. Making top 4 in 2018 was one of the worst things that could've happened. Meant we traded out high picks and held off from cutting dead weight.
Now we're in a position where we can't cut away the dead wood in one go. We had a massive crack at it last year, but we need another 2-3 years of cutting to clear out the dead wood. You simply can't do it all at once.
I get it, we can't play a team of 22 kids and cop 100 point beltings each week. But it's why we have to put up with watching blokes who are past it. I'd argue Shiels was done 2 years ago. Hartigan, and Phillips aren't the answer. Don't get me started on Nash, TOB, and Ceglar. Worpel is going backwards.

There are holes everywhere. You plug one, and another springs up. Our fwd line is a laughing stock. It's why fans are gagging to get a look at Jeka. Anyone could be better than what we currently have.

This season is already over. It was over last week.

We need to find some players. It's all we can hope to get out of this season now.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Just an opinion. You dont need to shut it down because you dont agree with it. We all are looking at the future through different lenses.

How am I shutting it down?

 

[Carl Spackler]

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

How am I shutting it down?

Shutting it down was the wrong phrase but you dont have to object to everyone who sees things from a different perspective. I could be totally wrong and thats fine but i dont need you to tell me that.

 

[eldorado]

It's 2 pronged.
Firstly it's gameplan, and that is all on Clarko. We're conservative with the footy, and that is in part due to simply not having the cattle who can execute.

It certainly is the game style, and our players ability to move the ball fluently, but I don't think it is innately conservative style.

A large problem to me seems to be missing the complete awareness of where everyone will/should be, so those crucial tenths of a second where we try to make the right decision are amplified. It's really a game of centimetres, and we're losing most of them with indecision and inaccuracy.

The aim is obviously that seamless transition we saw in the secind quarter against Essendon, but we've only seen it for, what? One quarter? A quarter and a bit?

Most of the time, we see the following...Players running to the same spot; a guy running past who calls for the ball, and gets it, running full tilt into an oppsition player; balls being fed into congestion rather than away from it; stop and prop at the half-back-line (and then getting called to play on after deviating one step off the line)...all this meaning the half forwards can't time any leads with any confidence at all...the result being scrambled entry into the F50 when it happens.

It's ugly at the moment. I can't say with any confidence that it will 'click' any time soon.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Shutting it down was the wrong phrase but you dont have to object to everyone who sees things from a different perspective. I could be totally wrong and thats fine but i dont need you to tell me that.

Sounds like you just don't want an opposing opinion.

 

[Lickmesocks]

Clarko has 2 years owing on a huge contract. Cannot see Jeff paying him out that sort of coin but would love to hear from the club what our direction is and a plan forward.

When we were flying we kept sending out 3 and 5 year plans to everyone.

One top 10 pick is not enough.

DGB, Day, Jiath and Scrimshaw are untouchable as we build.

Our high priced assets that other clubs would look at regarding trade value would be Wingard, Mitchell and Omeara.

Clarko has a list that is battling for talent and the continued “I promise to never give in ads” the club is spruiking are getting a tad tired.

I am at the point if we are winning 5 games each year to avoid the spoon then we need to stop and make some bold moves.

How clarko looks a Chad or Mitchell in the eye after recruiting them into the club and says we need to move in a new direction I have no idea how that would happen.

I think if the club pushed that path to clarko that would seal the deal for him to move on also.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Sounds like you just don't want an opposing opinion.

Pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Flukey!]

I thought last year that the bubbles just didn't work for us. That our players just didn't adapt that well.
Truth is, we really are just not a very good football side.

 

[Billyc]

I don’t buy that we are truly challenging sides for 2-3 quarters. That’s what you see when you only look at games through the lens of your own club. The reality is that other sides toy with us and take us easy for large parts of games, knowing it only takes a quarter or so of decent footy to comfortably beat us. We used to do that to rubbish sides ourselves when we were great.

Melbourne cruised all day and just put the foot down for 10 minutes.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Pot calling the kettle black.

bloody hell, dude. You said I was shutting you down, while you made not one attempt to provide a counterpoint or argument to what I wrote.

 

[Brishawk]

I really hope the rumours I have heard about us and Charlie Curnow are 100% false.

Lol we must have a sign up saying, ‘key forward wanted. Will pay top $$$ for used key forward. Intend to use parts of other key forwards to fix.’

 

[Roger Rogerson]

It's 2 pronged.
Firstly it's gameplan, and that is all on Clarko. We're conservative with the footy, and that is in part due to simply not having the cattle who can execute.

Secondly it's the list. Making top 4 in 2018 was one of the worst things that could've happened. Meant we traded out high picks and held off from cutting dead weight.
Now we're in a position where we can't cut away the dead wood in one go. We had a massive crack at it last year, but we need another 2-3 years of cutting to clear out the dead wood. You simply can't do it all at once.
I get it, we can't play a team of 22 kids and cop 100 point beltings each week. But it's why we have to put up with watching blokes who are past it. I'd argue Shiels was done 2 years ago. Hartigan, and Phillips aren't the answer. Don't get me started on Nash, TOB, and Ceglar. Worpel is going backwards.

There are holes everywhere. You plug one, and another springs up. Our fwd line is a laughing stock. It's why fans are gagging to get a look at Jeka. Anyone could be better than what we currently have.

This season is already over. It was over last week.

We need to find some players. It's all we can hope to get out of this season now.

Agree which is why I want us to move past Howe and TOB and I am not a Frost fan. Find another player or two.

The season is cooked so make some hard calls now. Jeka has to come in. Brambles we know is proven at VFL level so give him a chance. I still don't get why Cuz fell out of favour all I can think is the love affair with Howe.

Need to find a spot for Greaves. Time to go passed a few proven battlers.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Lol we must have a sign up saying, ‘key forward wanted. Will pay top $$$ for used key forward. Intend to use parts of other key forwards to fix.’

 

[MasterSamurai]

İn the last QTR we got pantsed the way we used to pants others!! Awful feeling.

O'Meara , scrimshaw were on top of their game while Hanrahan, Jiath were very good.

Tom Mitchell looks slower than the oppo ruckman and is just digging out handball's on ' Auto-pilot' . Chad Jaeger and Worpel should be spending more time in the middle as free wheeling mids and try and turn Tommy into hf/mid with a tagging job on a Oppo dangerous half back!
Really worried with his lack of speed, I'm talking way slower than Hodge Lewis or even Sammy. Worth remembering that Tommy DİD tag Sam Mitchell back in 2016 to good effect. Something a bit different may be the balance or spark we missing.

 

[Lickmesocks]

The King boys have given both GC and the Saints supporters something to look forward too in the future.

Who is the next King boy we can get at this years draft that going to games gives us something exciting to watch?

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

bloody hell, dude. You said I was shutting you down, while you made not one attempt to provide a counterpoint or argument to what I wrote.

Ive made my point whats there to debate? You dont agree with my sentiments and heres why.... Should i just repost what i wrote initially to add to the discussion i mean honesly mate if im wrong you can call me out publicly i dont care. We all bleed for the club and thats what matters.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The King boys have given both GC and the Saints supporters something to look forward too in the future.

Who is the next King boy we can get at this years draft that going to games gives us something exciting to watch?

Theres currently only 1-2 key talls in the top 20 rankings. It's all mids.

 

[Hawk Dork]

The King boys have given both GC and the Saints supporters something to look forward too in the future.

Who is the next King boy we can get at this years draft that going to games gives us something exciting to watch?

lets hope its Jeka

 

[View from the nosebleed]

Went today, which was obviously the first time for a while. that was one positive. Nice to be at the G again.

Like many, thought O'Meara, Scrimshaw were our best, Impey tried hard as did CJ and Hardwick, Liked Frost trying to take on the whole Melbourne team in the 2nd qtr and thought Kossie tried hard and kept presenting.

I'd love to know Nash's game instructions at Box Hill, for which he has seemingly done really well and earned a promotion to the seniors, compared to what his game instructions are with us in the seniors. He went from being one of our best at Box Hill, to again being really poor when given a chance at AFL level. Are they not letting him play to his strengths? Was he tagging Lever today? He was stuck up forward a lot, why not try him in ruck today and let him get around the ground?? Surely he'd be better than Hartigan who was having to take centre bounces.

Whilst it was nice we dropped Ceglar, based on form, today was probably the worst game to do it, as Gawn and Jackson absolutely monstered us.

TOB is who he is. We know it, the coaching staff know it, but until we can keep Lewis on the park more and Kossie/Jeka develop, you can see hes going to stay.

Shiels is really struggling, Phillips has been exactly what Pies supporters suggested.

Just a frustrating game, and after watching Melbourne play, it shows we are a really slow team. Is Bramble worth a shot?? Downie?

It's going to be a long year, we'll cop hidings occassionally, but were generally competitive for much of the day.

 

[Lickmesocks]

We badly need “a big ticket item” for the supporters to hang onto for a few years as we work out the holes in our list...

We are stiff Day and DGB are both injured atm but they are defenders.

Dees traded up for Pickett and the supporters go Bananas whenever he goes near it.

We need a stud or two quick smart that helps us look dangerous.

 

[randallbone]

It certainly is the game style, and our players ability to move the ball fluently, but I don't think it is innately conservative style.

A large problem to me seems to be missing the complete awareness of where everyone will/should be, so those crucial tenths of a second where we try to make the right decision are amplified. It's really a game of centimetres, and we're losing most of them with indecision and inaccuracy.

The aim is obviously that seamless transition we saw in the secind quarter against Essendon, but we've only seen it for, what? One quarter? A quarter and a bit?

Most of the time, we see the following...Players running to the same spot; a guy running past who calls for the ball, and gets it, running full tilt into an oppsition player; balls being fed into congestion rather than away from it; stop and prop at the half-back-line (and then getting called to play on after deviating one step off the line)...all this meaning the half forwards can't time any leads with any confidence at all...the result being scrambled entry into the F50 when it happens.

It's ugly at the moment. I can't say with any confidence that it will 'click' any time soon.

A much younger team, a lot of Skill errors, lack of judgement, pushed aside in some of the contests, and a lot of 'passengers today.
Like it or not, tt will not happen overnight. They were well in it today up until 1/2 time. Like a lot of young teams, got rolled over in the second half. The game plan may need some finessing. As per above post, They need to stop handballing to players in a worse position and watching them get nailed in the tackle. Open free flowing footy requires good vision and first use of the ball, which unfortunately, didn't happen today at all. There are definitely a few who should be wondering why they are in the Team at the minute. I'm not a fan of Connor Nash and Kozitsche may need a run in the 2's but marking fwds are in short supply currently (although could count both of their stats on one hand.)

Who do they chase in the mid season draft?