Autopsy Round 7 vs Saints rant thread

[Dustyjackman]

Ya know you're going great when the Captain bounces the ball on the run and it looks like a 9 year old bouncing a tennis ball on blue stone pavers.

Mark Murphy shoulda' slipped his old man the number 3 guernsey - least he 'looked' tough - even in the crowd.

And, the coaching staff - mainly the mouth piece - are too hell bent on believing that we 'will' be in the top four come season's end, therefore spending way too much time F'n around resting players, managing lists and trying to sound like they know what they are doing.......

.....The time for resting, managing and waffling comes after the wins are on the board - and convincing wins at that.

 

[SE_Blue]

Not totally disagreeing with what your saying here Mal but Simpson has been notable to me this year as one who waits on the outside for others to get him the ball so he can spread and run. So he isn't much better then Gibbs when it comes to putting his head over it.

Tonight proved that if he is not allowed to sit out the back of a pack on his own and is closely watched then he has absolutely no impact on the game.

Not sure if you're talking about the same bloke that plays for Carlton. Yes Simmo is an outside player, but when push comes to shove he, along with blokes like Duigan, is the most courageous player on our team.

 

[harmesy 37]

I reckon they made a mistake in dropping Kane Lucas. Sure, he doesn't get a lot of the ball right now..but when he does he makes it count. eg game against GWS last week...kicked a couple of crucial first half goals when team under pressure.

His kicking is high quality and decision making good. Of the bottom4 players I reckon he offers more upside than the others. Reminds me of one of our 1980s crew...good disposals.

 

[RiCHii]

All I can say is I hope we don't see Aaron Joseph on the park until his form warrants selection, that was by far that worst performance I have ever seen from a Carlton player in a long long time. I understand he played the role of nullifying Milnes input but how he was selected on field infront of Ellard was beyond me.

Bower with some terrible skill errors but wasn't the worst on the night.

Thornton not in the team? Why not when you have a lot of fringe players running on the field last night that did not even put in a 60% effort.

Gibbs refusal to get a hard ball get.

Russell looks like he just cannot be bothered but like Bower wasn't the worst on ground and more than willing to give him a go if it means he can recapture his great for he was once in.

Midfield just couldn't get their hands on it had majority of the hitouts but Lenny Hayes just tore us to bits, could have potentially moved someone like Gibbs on to him to try to cut down his possesions but it just seemed as though Ratten was content with playing the same game style without making any changes. Not calling for Ratten's head as I think he is the right man for us going foward but please man wheres the plan B.

Thats my rant, look foward to next week hopefully we see a better performance than that dismal crap we saw last night.

 

[Blue and Silver]

OK. Breaking it down.

Bad kicking is bad football. We had a few chances to stop the rot and squandered them.

Stupid ****ing macho bullshit. Picking fights before the bounce. When you do that to a team that has been all the way expect them to back it up, tried to go out and be "intense" only to put their opponents in the right frame of mind

Players that wilt under pressure, have poor disposal. Thinking Joseph, Garlett, Bower.

The defense. Too many players go up to spoil not enough stay down to collect. St Kilda continues to lose the aerial balls, but mopped up nicely by handballing to 3-4 players who did the hard yards.

The run. Fitness staff ****ed up, boys were out on there feet in the last, and were the more tired team since the third. 8 day break should not leave players that tired.

Protecting Murphy. Was targeted, and put down several times off the ball. Umpires couldn't give two shits, so the boys had to stand in. To note this was after there big machofest in the first, needed to back it up by protecting a teammate.

Most of all they didn't want enough.

 

[SBYM]

Crumbs! Can't believe I just remembered this.

Much of Waiter's problem has gotta be his fitness. I was sitting in the pocket and in the first quarter he had to sprint for a bit, ball went out of play. He was doubled over for a good twenty seconds, contested a tackle after the throw in (the only reason he did this was because the ball rolled his way), then straight back to being bent over sucking it in. I thought he was injured he was down on his haunches for that long, blowing a gale. He actually watched the boundary throw in happen whilst still bent over.

Anyways, seems to be horribly unfit for AFL standard, given his interrupted pre-season I'm not having a crack, but it made the resting him last week scenario sit a little worse with me. Could have used the match fitness perhaps?

 

[JuddgementDay]

Last night's game was our worst game by far this season. Only 2 players turned up. Its sad but was properly better that we lost last night. We have time to iron out our deficiencies. Top of the ladder would be good for the ego, but it would not reflect where we sit atm. ONLY if we learn from the last few weeks.

 

[pepalenko]

It has been mentioned on other threads that this should just be a blip for us and that we shouldn't be so negative about our form, but I just can't shake the feeling it's more than that. Since the Essendon game there has been a lot of discussion here about our lack of hardness, inability to win clearances etc and it just doesn't seem that the club has tried to do anything about it. The predominant thought I was having while watching the game last night was "right, clearly the opposition are modeling their approach on the scum's." The other thought was "I wish I hadn't finished my bottle of gin half-way through the first quarter." Anyhow, there are a few areas of concern for me: a seeming lack of a plan B, and as has been mentioned before, there is this perception when watching that there are just too many guys waiting for someone to get the ball. One other thing that discomforted me was a shot of Ratts sitting on the bench, arms crossed and looking out of ideas. I want see changes against the crows next week and I'm not talking about personnel, Joseph would be the only one I'd drop and maybe even Jeffy. I want to see a new approach to the game. Is it bad to actually tell some guys that this is their last chance to perform or else they can reacquaint themselves with the VFL?
Also more Megan Gale and less Warne and Hurley please.

 

[Krooooze]

I am still sick after that performance last night, I've seen some poor performances over the years, but that is right up there.

I just wonder when we will actually become a ruthless team, just like Coll were last year and the year before, and Geel of the last 5 years. Maybe we overrate our talent. I just knew once I saw the discrepancy in the odds before the match and everybody tipping us that we would wilt under the pressure. We simple can't handle it.

Our defence is so vulnerable at the moment. But it's only as vulnerable as the pressure that's being put on by the mids and fwds up the ground, which was next to none. I lost count of how many times I saw 4 or 5 St.K players free running fwd. Where's the accountability?

I can't remember the last time where I watched a game thinking the whole match that we don't look like we can stop the opposition run. We simply didn't have the attitude or game plan to counter it.

I think Ratts said in the press conference that it's a real wake up call for us. Well how many more wake up calls do we need? Seriously.

This definitely ain't a blip on the radar, because our last 4 weeks have been very poor. We got smashed by Ess, should have lost to Freo if not for inaccurate kicking, were challenged by GWS for 3 qtrs before they ran out of steam and copped a couple of injuries, and then this woeful performance. It's more than just an aberration, cos our attitude at the contest at the moment is pathetic.

 

[ctacp]

Here is a look at why our over rated midfield is actually doing very poorly. And it's because it's a very ordinary midfield. In fact if i rated it it would be about somewhere in the bottom part of the 8, Maybe lower.

2005

1. Murphy - Good Get
4. Kennedy - Good Get
20. Bower - Average get.

Andrew Swallow went at pick 43. Would have been ideal.

2006

1. Kreuzer - Ruckman who doesn't take marks and doesn't win a lot of taps but tries hard to make up for it but end of the day he's not doing a big man job all that well. Again, desperate for a ruckman at the time.
36. Browne - average half back, never up to it.
46. Armfield - a good average player, really good get this low down.

Cotchin went 2, unquestionably the player of that draft, the sort we lack, already had plenty of ruckmen coming through...
Dangerfield, Rioli, Taylor, Selwood are handy too.
How did we draft Browne ahead of Mayne!

2007
1. Gibbs - A good half back flanker, we were desperate at the time for this type, can't play on the ball the save himself, hates it physical. More of a lower first rounder/high second round pick player in terms of quality. Stick's mate's son.
17. Hampson - A handy ruckman who can kick a few as a forward, turning out good get.
19. Grigg - Playing good footy in the midfield, for another club, no denyin it this was a bad loss.
35. Austin - just an average player who is going ok at another club.

Tippett went at pick 32, not really sure if he would have been a good get or not.

Should have drafted selwood at number 1, turned out probably the best player of the draft, suprisingly overlooked by a few, Geelong's recruiter really is the best in the business.

2008
6. Yarran - Good player.
too early to tell with the others.

2009
11. Mclean - Shocker, the mind just boggles, we got reamed.
12. Lucas - light weight one dimensional running player who can kick a goal but is soft at the contest. Fit's in with our recruiter's obsession with slightly built running players who are midfield sizrd but not really onballers and will always lack size and strength.

We used pick 11 on mclean when we could have drafted Fyfe.

If we had drafted Selwood instead of Gibbs, Cotchin instead of Kreuzer and kept Jacobs, Swallow instead of Bower, Mayne instead of Browne and Fyfe instead of Mclean we would be a far better side than what we are.

We are paying for going hard and drafting players like Russell around the 188cm mark who are half back flankers/athletes and have neglected drafting genuine center men. We have a lot of tall winger and flanker types and stuff all in the way of quality on ball types. This is the 4th game in a row we have been smacked in the clearances.

We have Judd, Murphy and Carrazzo and these are the three centermen that are any good, the rest are pinch hitters best suited to other positions or are just not all that good. Robinson goes close but has too many quiet patches. Ellard and Curnow are just ordinary players. When Simpson, Gibbs, Scotland etc are going on the ball this is just for rotation, none are really onballers and are able to make an impact and bust the ball out really well though Scotland his his moments.

Do we have an obsession with lightly built players? Or do we not use the gym well enough because we are getting monstered each week and shown up for strength and size, especially in the middle. When we tackle they get the handball away and when they tackle us it gets locked up or we incorrectly dispose it. When push comes to shove at stoppages and marking contests the best we can do is come out 50/50 but often we are the ones who get shifted.

Warnock, Kreuzer, Henderson, Waite, Bower, Walker, Judd (this year), Lucas, Gibbs, Simpson, Curnow, Armfield, Garlett and Ellard are all light weight players who aren't over strong or over big and and struggle to shift an opponant one on one. This is a fair bloody chunk of our best 22 who aren't overly strong or big bodied. This is why our opposition are closing games up as best they can and stopping us from running and this is why our contested work and clearance work is shithouse. We aren't big enough and we aren't strong enough and we haven't drafted any where near enough genuine quality specialist onballers.

What we need to do, have a mini clean out at season's end. Draft really hard on specialist onballers and clearance players who are strongly built. Steer clear of tall flanker/winger types, lightly built types and hesitant types. Also we need to look to trade into the first and second round of the draft. Bower, Mclean, Russell, Joseph, Ellard, Warnock and maybe an even higher profile player to go for picks. In the meantime we need to play Mclean and find a way around his lack of pace.

-
to this whole piece - as my late father would say - "if nonna had wheels she'd have been a car"..
why werent you around when i was young & silly spending all my money on booze & chasing bad girls ? couldve saved me a lot of heartache...

ctacp
curlier than a catoggio pube

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Protecting Murphy. Was targeted, and put down several times off the ball. Umpires couldn't give two shits, so the boys had to stand in. To note this was after there big machofest in the first, needed to back it up by protecting a teammate.

First quarter I think it was. Murph was sat on his arse by someone, Robbo flew the flag, free kick against Robbo. The die was cast early by the umps. No protection for the ball player, no tolerance for third man in.

 

[Ricksta13]

We beat ourselves.

You cannot get frustrated on a football field, We let milne and a host of St. Kilda players get under our skin and ultimately focused too much on them allowing other guys such as Millera and Saad kick our ass.

Also, it doesn't help when there is absolutely no consistency in the umpiring evidenced by Jamison getting frustrated and punching Wilkes in the guts after not being paid any of at least three free kicks that were absolutely there.

Get frustrated, get beaten.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Umpiring was poor too. But good teams don't let bad umpiring ruin a game

 

[TruBlue]

There is one consistency about Carlton when we lose.
They cannot handle a team that gets physical with them! they are as soft as butter.
We can beat up on poor sides but descent sides that come to play know exactly what to do against us.
StKilda last night got physical with us and we had no answer whatsoever.
To many of our players think their better than what they are.
Top 4 chance....will be lucky to be top 6.
Instead of them sipping their Latte's and Short Blacks this week they better get that boxing world champ back down to the club and give them a session in hardening up!

 

[Krooooze]

It all comes down to workrate. We simply don't have it. I just get the impression the game is getting too hard for the boys and we get annoyed when our forward thrusts don't come off, so we just give up on running the other way. If ever the phrase "downhill skiing" were to be used, now is the time.

It's pretty obvious over the last 4 weeks that we don't like the physical contest. Too many players shirk the contest. I would say even Melb are having more a dip at the moment, they just don't have the talent.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

Seriously, I can't for the life of work out how we always let this shit failure of a football club bully us like they have over the last couple years. They get into our faces at the start of the game, we get sucked in and succumb to it. I just wonder when we will stand up to that shit. This is the rubbish we will have to overcome if we are going to be a "true" premiership contender, which we clearly are still a long way off being.

I don't normally ever comment on other clubs forums, but the disgusting comment above, couldn't be let go.

Even after a humiliating loss tonight, you still don't get it do you. You have to EARN a win, it is not granted by sipping lattes in Lygon Street and press releases that you will win the flag this year.

Sit a number of your soft passengers down and make them watch the tape of Lenny Hayes from last night. He earns what he gets, he doesn't expect it, because he thinks its his right.

 

[Dustyjackman]

I don't normally ever comment on other clubs forums, but the disgusting comment above, couldn't be let go.

Even after a humiliating loss tonight, you still don't get it do you. You have to EARN a win, it is not granted by sipping lattes in Lygon Street and press releases that you will win the flag this year.

Sit a number of your soft passengers down and make them watch the tape of Lenny Hayes from last night. He earns what he gets, he doesn't expect it, because he thinks its his right.

This blokes onto it, sadly enough. And, to think that number 7 for the Saints couldn't even get a run last year.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

I don't normally ever comment on other clubs forums, but the disgusting comment above, couldn't be let go.

Even after a humiliating loss tonight, you still don't get it do you. You have to EARN a win, it is not granted by sipping lattes in Lygon Street and press releases that you will win the flag this year.

Sit a number of your soft passengers down and make them watch the tape of Lenny Hayes from last night. He earns what he gets, he doesn't expect it, because he thinks its his right.

What was the press release that we would win the flag this year ?

 

[thylacine60]

Winning advice from the mob with one cup in the cupboard and 26 spoons in the drawer.

 

[Krooooze]

I don't normally ever comment on other clubs forums, but the disgusting comment above, couldn't be let go.

Even after a humiliating loss tonight, you still don't get it do you. You have to EARN a win, it is not granted by sipping lattes in Lygon Street and press releases that you will win the flag this year.

Sit a number of your soft passengers down and make them watch the tape of Lenny Hayes from last night. He earns what he gets, he doesn't expect it, because he thinks its his right.

I don't think you quite understand what I am saying buddy. I am not talking about the physical contest, I am referring to the verbal stuff. Getting in our faces and yapping and letting it get to us. For some reason we can't not only stand up to the physical stuff when the game's on the line, but we let the verbal shit affect our game and we look like imbeciles out there. If you read a few of my posts I think you will see that I say that our players are soft and shirk the contest. You don't have to be Einstein to work out you need to "earn a win", but thanks for clearing up the obvious though.

 

[entourage]

Bad luck on the game last night. I'm going to try and be as careful as I can but I thought I might just comment on some things form last night, there were two major things/players I'd like to comment on.

-Krezuer. Wow, I read a couple of pages back someone said something negative about him and I'm pretty sure it's an isolated opinion. He was amazing last night. I love watching him take a mark, and I love watching him in the ruck. His tap outs were truly unbelievable. I'd put him as probably your best player, maybe second best.

-Murphy. I feel sorry for the guy, I watched him closely as he is in my DT and he was manhandled at every stoppage. The one where Robbo gave the free kick away after Murphy got taken down was frustrating as all get out. I thought Murph would finally be rewarded for the attention he was copping. No such luck. I could see a sail on his jumper at most ball-ups with Jones right there.
Having said that, I think he needs to get used to it and fight through it, I think last night it mentally got to him-probably because he's used to Judd getting it, but it will do him good I think, he needs the practice.
Also, I question the decision to put him up forward. I wouldn't have thought he'd be the midfielder that could take a tagger to the forward line and have an influence, I didn't like it-I thought you needed him in the middle even thought he was struggling, but I'd rather see him struggle more in the middle than go up forward. Maybe someone can give more of an insight on this but I thought from that moment things would turn sour.

It's certainly not the end of the road, there's a lot of improvement in this team and players to come back (boy, do you miss Carrots) and it's still early days.

Best of luck next week, should be a cracker of a game

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I don't normally ever comment on other clubs forums, but the disgusting comment above, couldn't be let go.

Even after a humiliating loss tonight, you still don't get it do you. You have to EARN a win, it is not granted by sipping lattes in Lygon Street and press releases that you will win the flag this year.

Sit a number of your soft passengers down and make them watch the tape of Lenny Hayes from last night. He earns what he gets, he doesn't expect it, because he thinks its his right.

I'm not sure that we need your input. An angry supporter bags your club on his own board. That doesn't mean you have to go tit for tat. It's not as though the Saints are the authority on how to win, just because they won last night.

Timing is all important and even if we did play soft, it is not respectful for opposition supporters to come in here and say it.

It's a rant thread for Carlton supporters. Just as we do when other team boards rip into us, you accept it for what it is and ignore it.

 

[laminex]

I don't normally ever comment on other clubs forums, but the disgusting comment above, couldn't be let go.

Even after a humiliating loss tonight, you still don't get it do you. You have to EARN a win, it is not granted by sipping lattes in Lygon Street and press releases that you will win the flag this year.

Sit a number of your soft passengers down and make them watch the tape of Lenny Hayes from last night. He earns what he gets, he doesn't expect it, because he thinks its his right.

sunshine, do you have so much sway down at the saints that you can say for any player to be trained in a certain way?

No

Nor does anyone else, So that means every single post on BF is just people talking shit, treat it for what it is and what it means.

Nothing.

 

[Krooooze]

Bad luck on the game last night. I'm going to try and be as careful as I can but I thought I might just comment on some things form last night, there were two major things/players I'd like to comment on.

-Krezuer. Wow, I read a couple of pages back someone said something negative about him and I'm pretty sure it's an isolated opinion. He was amazing last night. I love watching him take a mark, and I love watching him in the ruck. His tap outs were truly unbelievable. I'd put him as probably your best player, maybe second best.

-Murphy. I feel sorry for the guy, I watched him closely as he is in my DT and he was manhandled at every stoppage. The one where Robbo gave the free kick away after Murphy got taken down was frustrating as all get out. I thought Murph would finally be rewarded for the attention he was copping. No such luck. I could see a sail on his jumper at most ball-ups with Jones right there.
Having said that, I think he needs to get used to it and fight through it, I think last night it mentally got to him-probably because he's used to Judd getting it, but it will do him good I think, he needs the practice.
Also, I question the decision to put him up forward. I wouldn't have thought he'd be the midfielder that could take a tagger to the forward line and have an influence, I didn't like it-I thought you needed him in the middle even thought he was struggling, but I'd rather see him struggle more in the middle than go up forward. Maybe someone can give more of an insight on this but I thought from that moment things would turn sour.

It's certainly not the end of the road, there's a lot of improvement in this team and players to come back (boy, do you miss Carrots) and it's still early days.

Best of luck next week, should be a cracker of a game

Yeah it's a funny game footy. I honestly believe 70-80% of the game is played above the shoulders. You can have all the talent you like, but if you't bring the right mentality you will get shown, and this has been the case the last month. We were extremely lucky to get away with it against Freo, and if we played anybody but GWS last week, we prob would have got shown up that day too.

I honestly believe we have one of the most talented lists out there, but if you're not prepared to bring the workrate and hardness at the contest, there's no point turning up. I haven't been embarrassed with my club as much as I was last night in a long time. And I'm just not sure how we will turn it around. We just seem to have that mentality that it will turn for us, things will just "happen". Really disappointed with last month.

 

[audas]

Betts was our only forward who busted a gut last night. He kicked 2 goals in the first half, had 2 goal assists & laid 6 tackles. He was the only forward who could hold his head up high.

Unfortunately Betts was the victim of poor delivery into our forward line & St Kilda's extra player/s playing inside our 50.

You can criticise our other forwards last night, but you have got it wrong if you think Betts didn't do everything he could to keep us in the game.

Walker did much more, and since moving forward, is three times the forward Eddie is, unfortunately Eddie always has been, without a SINGLE DOUBT a cameo player, comes and goes.

Eddie was giving away frees left right and center - And which part of 3 goals in three games is escaping you ? That is absolutely unacceptable and proves my point entirely. Eddie was running around like a headless chicken last night, I was five rows from him and I see it all the time with Eddie, when things aren't being handed to him on a platter from the gift shop ready wrapped he runs around in circles not knowing where to run to or what to do - just NO IDEA - its almost comical to watch if it wasn't so sad.

This isn't something new for Eddie - I don't want to concentrate the on him, but this was his entire modus operandi for YEARS and the old Eddie was back last night in SPADES and has been for three weeks. PERIOD.

Like it or lump it - but there is absolutely no denying it. And saying Eddie is ever better than Walker is just ridiculous.