Game Day Round 8 vs. Richmond, Sat 07/05, 1:45pm MCG

[swoop42]

To me we've seemingly only invited trouble by our selection decision this week in dropping Madgen on top of not including Cox.

By doing this we've given Richmond a fair opportunity to push Balta forward and teamed up with Lynch (and Riewoldt, Martin) our defence with Moore as our only genuine tall might be exposed badly.

Madgen may not be much chop but with Moore and Howe already leaking plenty to their opponents weekly then surely including Cox to keep the Richmond defence at least honest was a way to offset our desire to omit Madgen.

If our 22 lines up as named then Begg simply must be played forward for considerable periods this week and not spend 45% of game time on the bench.

 

[unplugged]

To me we've seemingly only invited trouble by our selection decision this week in dropping Madgen on top of not including Cox.

By doing this we've given Richmond a fair opportunity to push Balta forward and teamed up with Lynch (and Riewoldt, Martin) our defence with Moore as our only genuine tall might be exposed badly.

Madgen may not be much chop but with Moore and Howe already leaking plenty to their opponents weekly then surely including Cox to keep the Richmond defence at least honest was a way to offset our desire to omit Madgen.

If our 22 lines up as named then Begg simply must be played forward for considerable periods this week and not spend 45% of game time on the bench.

On the flip side, if they throw Balta forward, Checkers licks his lips.

 

[swoop42]

On the flip side, if they throw Balta forward, Checkers licks his lips.

I'd imagine Grimes will take Mihocek.

 

[frizzle]

I'd imagine Grimes will take Mihocek.

Will take De Goey when forward.

 

[Wearmouth]

Well said VP. If two different AFL coaches panels pick him and you think they shouldn't, you really need to question your judgement and start looking for the reasons why they pick him rather than being certain that they shouldn't.

An irrelevant observation. About as relevant as me saying that in all the time I’ve seen WHE playing. I’ve never seen the opposition actually doing any work to stop him. Matter of fact they don’t actual mind him getting it as they can usually get it back. From one of his up and under hospital kicks.

In a young group especially, it’s hard for a new coaching group to put the line through senior players when their jobs are on the line. Remember if we went 0-6 this year. Serious questions would’ve been asked about Fly, Leppa and Bolton. All new coaches are coaching for the their livelihoods. So they’ll only disrupt the playing group when there’s a necessity or the season is truly done. But if they are brave they may find more gems to take on roles over the likes of the WHE’s.


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[No SPIN]

Really Brereton???

Maybe you can reference Gary Dempsey and Simon Madden in your post just to give it even more credibility. If you’re going to reference anything. Make it someone current. Not 40 years ago.

I mean seriously relevancy…..

All it tells me is that when your chance comes. Take it with both hands and never let go….. And young Begg surely did.


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If you can’t see the relevance I can’t help you.

Begg earnt his chance and made the most of it, which is exactly what you’ve said above a player needs to do.

But you want HH, Murley and Chugg to be GIFTED games.

So you are caught in a massive contradiction.

Earning, not Gifting of games has stood the test of time FOR MORE THAN 40 YEARS.

 

[Wearmouth]

Yes, but what about 4-3? Surely that's towel chucking time.

WHE is not clear cut best 22. He is in the mix of guys 20-28. And with a downward trajectory.

I am so adamant that we have better players than WHE. I would accept giving Madgen a try up forward instead of WHE. At least Madgen will give you a hard contest. And who knows we may unearth another Mihochek. Defender turn forward.


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[sr36]

An irrelevant observation. About as relevant as me saying that in all the time I’ve seen WHE playing. I’ve never seen the opposition actually doing any work to stop him. Matter of fact they don’t actual mind him getting it as they can usually get it back. From one of his up and under hospital kicks.

In a young group especially, it’s hard for a new coaching group to put the line through senior players when their jobs are on the line. Remember if we went 0-6 this year. Serious questions would’ve been asked about Fly, Leppa and Bolton. All new coaches are coaching for the their livelihoods. So they’ll only disrupt the playing group when there’s a necessity or the season is truly done. But if they are brave they may find more gems to take on roles over the likes of the WHE’s.


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With Grundy, Cal and Madge out, it was a wide open market for the whipping boy. Have you got some money on WHE?

 

[Wearmouth]

If WHE plays a game as atrocious as Cox did against Brisbane that makes everyone never want to see him in the seniors again, then you might have a point. But please don’t pretend that Begg would have gotten a game if Cox had been even as close to as serviceable as WHE has been this year.

What a pointless comparison. Begg did play and played well. Even though there were detractors here on BF questioning his selection last week. So your comment actually goes a long way to proving my point…….That….

The same would happen if they played others instead of WHE. Those boys are all hungry and would kill for the opportunity. I’d even give Madgen a go up forward if it meant not playing WHE.


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[Chrispiesssss]

Hmmmm, goal posts shift yet again…. At an average of 6.2 marks a game WHE was sandwiched between Henry from the Cats and Rampe from the Swans in 43rd league wide. Ahead of Naughton. Minimize it all you want, even by age if it makes you feel better. WHE is consistently one of the best ranked marks at our club. Never lower than 4.7, high of 6.7.

2022 - 5th currently
2021 - 5th
2020 - 3rd
2019 - 2nd
2018 - 7th
2017 - 4th

So what if he takes marks? He does nothing with the ball. We have already shown his ball us is average, he doesn’t goal assist nor does he get involved in scores.

He takes 5 marks a game. Let’s just forgive him for everything else.

Mate, if you’re happy with his performance or don’t think we have an adequate replacement, thats on you. I can’t / won’t change your mind.

I look forward to the day he’s not in the 22.

 

[#26]

I don't think WHE being in or out will be the difference between us winning or losing tomorrow.

 

[Mollythedolly]

I don’t make the DE% stats up. I showed you the stats.

Caleb Poulter and Will Hoskin-Elliott AFL Stats Comparison

Caleb Poulter and Will Hoskin-Elliott AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

You can have a go at a then 18 year old kid who shanked a few and went missing at times in his first year… but go back and check how many WHE has shanked in the last couple of weeks

I had to double check what I’d posted. Show me where I suggested you make up stats.

And I’m not “having a go”, I’m being critical of his footy this year because it’s been ordinary. You get that? THIS YEAR! Not sure if you’ve seen any 2022 VFL or if you have why it hasn’t been obvious. Keeps accumulating but just keeps either burning the possession by foot or getting run down due to poor awareness.

And his long down the line high floaty mongrel punts in 2021 were the norm, not an occasional shank. Every footballer has those and I’m not expecting perfection. The exceptions for Poulter were his set shots at goal and the occasional bullet like pin-point 30-40 meter pass onto the chest of a team mate. But they were rare by comparison. But they showed the potential he does have, and set the benchmark of my expectations on what he should be offering in 2022. His game isn’t without other flaws so he can ill afford to not be maximizing his strengths.

 

[Apex36]

What a pointless comparison. Begg did play and played well. Even though there were detractors here on BF questioning his selection last week. So your comment actually goes a long way to proving my point…….That….

Not pointless at all. Begg deserved his game ahead of Cox because he had been performing decently at VFL level, Kreuger was injured and Cox was utter trash. The cards fell his way even though he didn’t exactly bang the door down.

The same would happen if they played others instead of WHE. Those boys are all hungry and would kill for the opportunity. I’d even give Madgen a go up forward if it meant not playing WHE.


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This is nonsense, and the last sentence is a testament to the bias you’re showing against a player you simply dislike. If you don’t remember, Madgen was actually played for a game or two forward last year and he was far worse than anything WHE has shown this year.

Not going to respond anymore because your posts are becoming increasingly ridiculous, but I’ll finish by saying I’m looking forward to seeing WHE overtaken in the pecking order this year by the likes of Reef, Harrison and Murley. It won’t happen immediately, but I’m confident he’ll be overtaken once Fly feels the younger boys are ready.

 

[well left]

I’m obviously sitting somewhere in the middle of this WHE discussion.

I can’t see what he provides that a McInnes couldn’t or that Henry couldn’t and Henry is back in this week.

In all honesty I’d prefer we move past him and get games into a younger player but he obviously plays his role and does something I can’t see. And apart from Henry with 7 last week no one at VFL level is really forcing him out.

So I can see why we keep playing him whilst not being overly happy about it. He might have been lucky Ash Johnson did his hammy as maybe he was one that might have pushed him out.


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[Wearmouth]

If you can’t see the relevance I can’t help you.

Begg earnt his chance and made the most of it, which is exactly what you’ve said above a player needs to do.

But you want HH, Murley and Chugg to be GIFTED games.

So you are caught in a massive contradiction.

Earning, not Gifting of games has stood the test of time FOR MORE THAN 40 YEARS.

The relevance???……..the game is not even played the same as it was 40 years ago. But I guess you’re missing that because you are spending too much time navel gazing at all your badges on the dufflecoat. Than watching the actual play.

You keep talking about this earning a spot. I’d say what is it that you see from WHE that says he still keeps deserving a spot. As Thomas was an example of players out staying their welcome. So to now is WHE. Apart from his 2018 season. He hasn’t managed to kick more than a goal a game for any other season. He has been totally underwhelming for someone who was a top 5 pick by GWS and we brought in as a forward of the ball player.


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[Mollythedolly]

Thomas played 20 games in 2021. And Ginnivan debut in Round 19. I suspect that if Buckley was still coaching Ginnivan wouldn’t have debut in 2021. Thomas was a love child.

When they’re ready is a very subjective position. The only real way to know is throw them in and see what happens. You can prepare as much as you want. Until you play at the level you’re never going to know.

Look at Nick Daicos. What more preparation has he had that gives him an up to play from round 1. I’m not saying that these boys come in for players like Adams, Sidey, Pendles and the like. It’s WHE. He isn’t a vital cog. And that’s something none of you seem to be addressing.

I know I’ll be correct when WHE is no longer playing for us next season.


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Really? Now it’s Buckley’s fault? Even though he finished after round 13 and Ginnivan still couldn’t get selected till round 19. Nothing to do with coaches and everything to do with Ginnivan being ready. I won’t waste any more time with you.

 

[pablo disco bar]

Really? Now it’s Buckley’s fault? Even though he finished after round 13 and Ginnivan still couldn’t get selected till round 19. Nothing to do with coaches and everything to do with Ginnivan being ready.

Ginnivan needed to marinate .

Glad they let him string a few good games together before debut.

 

[No SPIN]

The relevance???……..the game is not even played the same as it was 40 years ago. But I guess you’re missing that because you are spending too much time navel gazing at all your badges on the dufflecoat. Than watching the actual play.

You keep talking about this earning a spot. I’d say what is it that you see from WHE that says he still keeps deserving a spot. As Thomas was an example of players out staying their welcome. So to now is WHE. Apart from his 2018 season. He hasn’t managed to kick more than a goal a game for any other season. He has been totally underwhelming for someone who was a top 5 pick by GWS and we brought in as a forward of the ball player.


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I can see from the absurd digression above that my points is made -

GIFTING games to kids is no substitute for EARNING them.

Twas ever thus.

 

[Wearmouth]

Not pointless at all. Begg deserved his game ahead of Cox because he had been performing decently at VFL level, Kreuger was injured and Cox was utter trash. The cards fell his way even though he didn’t exactly bang the door down.

This is nonsense, and the last sentence is a testament to the bias you’re showing against a player you simply dislike. If you don’t remember, Madgen was actually played for a game or two forward last year and he was far worse than anything WHE has shown this year.

Not going to respond anymore because your posts are becoming increasingly ridiculous, but I’ll finish by saying I’m looking forward to seeing WHE overtaken in the pecking order this year by the likes of Reef, Harrison and Murley. It won’t happen immediately, but I’m confident he’ll be overtaken once Fly feels the younger boys are ready.

We could have had Plugger and Dunstall playing for us last year and neither would have been able to kick goals for us. Not with Buckley’s game plan. If you don’t remember the ball movement was atrocious.

You would be surprised how good old Madgen would play with the i50 delivery we’ve had this year. And Madgen is more mobile than people give him credit for. It’s hard for someone not used to the game to play defense. It’s his reading that costs him down back. But up forward the pressure is off. Madgen might be a diamond in the rough. Who knows until he is tried in this new game plan. But we sure as hell know everything about WHE abilities.


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[Chrispiesssss]

Anyone who thinks 3-3 is a time to not play your best team, regardless of age, needs some re-education on winning.


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Okay, we win 10 games this year with WHE. I rather win 8 games with 2 youngsters playing 5-10 games.

Not saying WHE could change a game in 2022.

 

[Lifelong Pie]

You are clueless. ….

We could have had Plugger and Dunstall playing for us last year and neither would have been able to kick goals for us. Not with Buckley’s game plan. If you don’t remember the ball movement was atrocious.

You would be surprised how good old Madgen would play with the i50 delivery we’ve had this year. And Madgen is more mobile than people give him credit for. It’s hard for someone not used to the game to play defense. It’s his reading that costs him down back. But up forward the pressure is off. Madgen might be a diamond in the rough. Who knows until he is tried in this new game plan. But we sure as hell know everything about WHE abilities.


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Do you really want Madgen playing forward? That's different

 

[Wearmouth]

Really? Now it’s Buckley’s fault? Even though he finished after round 13 and Ginnivan still couldn’t get selected till round 19. Nothing to do with coaches and everything to do with Ginnivan being ready. I won’t waste any more time with you.

Keep up….My comment was referencing 2021. You know the year Buckley left. But had he not been moved on early that year. There is no way Ginnivan was debuting that year. Buckleys love affair with Thomas was well documented. With the amount of games he played…..


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[LuckyLee]

Is this the Will Hoskin-Elliott

32

Will Hoskin-elliott

Age

31

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.0

4star

K

9.3

4star

HB

4.7

3star

M

5.5

5star

T

2.2

4star

MG

232.7

4star

D

11.1

3star

K

7.6

3star

HB

3.6

2star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.0

2star

MG

180.6

3star

D

12.4

4star

K

9.4

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.2

3star

appreciation thread?


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[domus]

To me we've seemingly only invited trouble by our selection decision this week in dropping Madgen on top of not including Cox.

By doing this we've given Richmond a fair opportunity to push Balta forward and teamed up with Lynch (and Riewoldt, Martin) our defence with Moore as our only genuine tall might be exposed badly.

Madgen may not be much chop but with Moore and Howe already leaking plenty to their opponents weekly then surely including Cox to keep the Richmond defence at least honest was a way to offset our desire to omit Madgen.

If our 22 lines up as named then Begg simply must be played forward for considerable periods this week and not spend 45% of game time on the bench.

I tend to agree. They must have their reasons but I would like to have seen Cox up front (to keep them honest as you said) and another tall in defense as short a tall as Madge is!

 

[Wearmouth]

I can see from the absurd digression above that my points is made -

GIFTING games to kids is no substitute for them EARNING them.

Twas ever thus.

You’ll see the light sooner rather than later. WHE won’t be able to keep Reef and Henry out for much longer. And sure as hell they won’t be using WHE as a sub. God help us….

So I’m predicting that after round 14. WHE will be finding it hard to justify his spot in the seniors. If not earlier.


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