Game Day Round 8 vs. Richmond, Sat 07/05, 1:45pm MCG

[Vicky Park]

And gifting WHE games is definitely not the answer to our dilemma.

'Gifting'? I've rarely if ever seen WHE dropped - is that the same as gifting? And two different coaching regimes keep picking him and he continues to hold his spot.

We are gradually bringing the kids in, trying them out, and the pace of introducing youngsters into the team is working well for us.

The time wil come when WHE no longer gets a game. But for now, I think the coaches know more about getting the balance right between new and old, raw and experienced, than you and I do. Begg's debut is an example of this.

 

[Mollythedolly]

I’m not comparing him to Greene. My question is IF we were to compare his ROLE to another player (from any team), who would it be?

I’d have thought Will Hayward would be a reasonable comparison.

 

[sideswipe]

The idea that these kids, who have significant weaknesses themselves, will magically improve by being thrust in to senior footy before they’re ready, for the sake of replacing a player who’s not great, but still a better choice than they currently are is nonsense. As is pointing out that a kid was a gun mid as a junior. Do you know who else was a gun mid as a junior? Ben Kennedy. Racked up the footy in his junior days through the middle in u18’s and even SANFL in his draft year (which is more than Poulter did fyi). Played in the VFL as a mid but then thrust forward in the seniors and floundered. Perfect example of why you don’t stuff around with player development by forcing different roles on kids than what they’ve been developing in.
This argument is nonsense. I’m not even saying WHE should be a permanent fixture or above being dropped. I’ve even suggested a player who could potentially fill his role who’s actually comfortable at senior level in the fwd/mid role in Reef. But you’re ignoring that because… reasons? Fkd if I know…

Anyone who thinks 3-3 is a time to not play your best team, regardless of age, needs some re-education on winning.


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[Matrix10]

He's tall and is/was training as a backman, something we have in short supply at present.

So he’s tall , trained as a backman , showed little , got homesick , went home , now miraculously 3 months later is rejuvenated. Pass

 

[Mollythedolly]

Absolute rubbish. With that way of thinking Thomas would still be lost clogging while Ginnivan, McCreery and the like would be languishing in the VFL.

But that’s what real watchers of the game see.


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LOL, I’d have thought real watchers of the game would have noticed McCreery and Ginnivan both got games in 2021 despite Thomas being on the list.

Players will always get opportunity when they’re ready, and they’ll continue to play seniors if they take that opportunity. Henry and Bianco a case in point this week.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

When did I ask CFC to make me happy?

I suspect you’re the type of supporter that is only happy when they have something to whinge about.

 

[Mollythedolly]

I've been as strong as anyone on WHE over the past few weeks.....but having thought about it a bit more i've changed my thinking.

At present he is all we have!
He plays a dual role in that he is primarily a HFF, but he also roles to the wing to support Sidy & JD when they need a break.

So his purpose in the team is multi faceted.

From my perspective, Henry is a far better HFF prospect, but can't play wing.
Poulter can only play 1 spot (wing) and has shown no ability to play HFF in my opinion.
So WHE is basically all we have that is senior enough to play the roles (HFF, 3rd winger) being asked.

No doubt WHE will shirk a few contests tomorrow and drop 1-2 marks as well as kill our momentum with weak efforts and poor decisions.... But he'll get his 15 disposals....

But as i said, there is no depth to push him out of the role he is being asked to play.
So whether we agree or not on his skills.....he's staying in for the time being.

Out of curiosity, are the people questioning WHE’s courage suggesting Poulter is any different in that regard?

 

[Mollythedolly]

Don’t know how you know Poulters DE% in the VFL when disposal efficiency doesn’t get shown in the VFL stats

And when comparing their AFL stats last year… there was no real difference in DE% between the two

Caleb Poulter and Will Hoskin-Elliott AFL Stats Comparison

Caleb Poulter and Will Hoskin-Elliott AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

I’d have thought the “reckon” would make it clear I was having a guess based on watching Poulter’s disposal in every VFL game this year. And if you’ve read my previous posts on this subject you’d also understand that it’s only this year I’m talking about, and that I’ve repeatedly stated he has better in him.

Even last year though, I’d highlighted on several occasions how often he unnecessarily opted to stop and prop, go back behind the mark, and then kick a long floaty mongrel punt down the line. Yeah, they’d be rated “effective” but they were all too often pretty ordinary. Love to see his stats for next possession of those down the line contests.

That said, I’m not sure why anyone would be trying to suggest Poulter’s disposal is anywhere near as good as WHE’s as it’s not even in the same postcode.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

Out of curiosity, are the people questioning WHE’s courage suggesting Poulter is any different in that regard?

Not sure. I’m not on the poulter for WHE bandwagon….

But there isn’t anything I’ve seen in poulter to suggest he is much better at this stage of his career.

 

[whiskeytown]

I’d have thought the “reckon” would make it clear I was having a guess based on watching Poulter’s disposal in every VFL game this year. And if you’ve read my previous posts on this subject you’d also understand that it’s only this year I’m talking about, and that I’ve repeatedly stated he has better in him.

Even last year though, I’d highlighted on several occasions how often he unnecessarily opted to stop and prop, go back behind the mark, and then kick a long floaty mongrel punt down the line. Yeah, they’d be rated “effective” but they were all too often pretty ordinary. Love to see his stats for next possession of those down the line contests.

That said, I’m not sure why anyone would be trying to suggest Poulter’s disposal is anywhere near as good as WHE’s as it’s not even in the same postcode.

I don’t make the DE% stats up. I showed you the stats.

Caleb Poulter and Will Hoskin-Elliott AFL Stats Comparison

Caleb Poulter and Will Hoskin-Elliott AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

You can have a go at a then 18 year old kid who shanked a few and went missing at times in his first year… but go back and check how many WHE has shanked in the last couple of weeks

 

[whiskeytown]

Not sure. I’m not on the poulter for WHE bandwagon….

But there isn’t anything I’ve seen in poulter to suggest he is much better at this stage of his career.

The kids 19… the other one is turning 29

Common sense says one has still has ceiling… the other is the finished product

 

[Wearmouth]

Begg wasn’t banging the door down? His progress has been beyond the expectations of everyone, both on the field and on the track.
Did you hear the glowing words to that effect, in the video where Fly announced his selection?

Like I said, your exaggerations and bluster to make a point is falling on deaf ears.
No one is buying HH, Murley or Chugg can do better than WHE, especially when neither is demanding selection with outstanding VFL performances.
And that’s exactly how it should be.

Unlike yourself I didn’t need Fly telling me that. Egg was ready. I knew Begg had transferable skills sets needed in our team. Especially with the game plan Fly is evolving.

But you keep ignoring you bullish stances along with others, against his selection last week and we’re proven wrong. And why was that? Because the majority thought he was so far off it that he still needed to develop in the VFL.

The same applies with the other boys. Some players can cope some can’t. The only thing I do know is unless they are thrown in, we’ll never know. Just like Begg.

So according to you seeing the qualities that are transferable from all those boys and that they can make a contribution just as much as WHE is capable of. That’s all we need. But that is exaggeration.

I think the real problem is that you sound just a little peahearted. Don’t worry no one is asking you to put your head over the ball. These boys though will be more than fine. I have no doubt.


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[Mollythedolly]

Prestia and Vlaustin out with illness.

Prestia was always doubtful but Vlaustin is a huge out.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

He averaged 5 last year.

Actually, he started as the sub against Carlton.
So in 10 full games:
16.3 disposals
2.1 tackles
5.4 marks

Each of those stats are better than WHE this year

Prefer WHEs disposal, he is a solid kick. If the stats are similar or even in Poulters favour then I would go with WHE everything being equal. However Poulter is only 19-20 so from a development point of view I would prefer Poulter play ever day of the week. However I feel WHE is appreciated by the coaches. They never drop the guy.

 

[sr36]

'Gifting'? I've rarely if ever seen WHE dropped - is that the same as gifting? And two different coaching regimes keep picking him and he continues to hold his spot.

Well said VP. If two different AFL coaches panels pick him and you think they shouldn't, you really need to question your judgement and start looking for the reasons why they pick him rather than being certain that they shouldn't.

 

[Wearmouth]

Haw the most successful club in a generation made Dermot Brereton play over 50 games in the VFL before his AFL debut. He earned his stripes, which is exactly what the kids you proffer should do.
Exceptional circumstances, namely Grundy’s injury, combined with exceptional progress lead to Beggs promotion.
Begg would still be playing VFL if Grundy was fit,

Really Brereton???

Maybe you can reference Gary Dempsey and Simon Madden in your post just to give it even more credibility. If you’re going to reference anything. Make it someone current. Not 40 years ago.

I mean seriously relevancy…..

All it tells me is that when your chance comes. Take it with both hands and never let go….. And young Begg surely did.


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[JuniorB]

So he’s tall , trained as a backman , showed little , got homesick , went home , now miraculously 3 months later is rejuvenated. Pass

He passed on us. I'm not saying we should get him back. Just that he might have been another player to put in our depleted backline if he was still on the list.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Really Brereton???

Maybe you can reference Gary Dempsey and Simon Madden in your post just to give it even more credibility. If you’re going to reference anything. Make it someone current. Not 40 years ago.

I mean seriously relevancy…..

All it tells me is that when your chance comes. Take it with both hands and never let go….. And young Begg surely did.


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I reckon it was Tuck actually. But it definitely was a different era. It also had different age limits. They could rack up 40 games in the Reserves aged 16 and 17, before they would even eligible to be drafted by today’s standards!,,,,,,,

 

[Wearmouth]

LOL, I’d have thought real watchers of the game would have noticed McCreery and Ginnivan both got games in 2021 despite Thomas being on the list.

Players will always get opportunity when they’re ready, and they’ll continue to play seniors if they take that opportunity. Henry and Bianco a case in point this week.

Thomas played 20 games in 2021. And Ginnivan debut in Round 19. I suspect that if Buckley was still coaching Ginnivan wouldn’t have debut in 2021. Thomas was a love child.

When they’re ready is a very subjective position. The only real way to know is throw them in and see what happens. You can prepare as much as you want. Until you play at the level you’re never going to know.

Look at Nick Daicos. What more preparation has he had that gives him an up to play from round 1. I’m not saying that these boys come in for players like Adams, Sidey, Pendles and the like. It’s WHE. He isn’t a vital cog. And that’s something none of you seem to be addressing.

I know I’ll be correct when WHE is no longer playing for us next season.


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[sr36]

Anyone who thinks 3-3 is a time to not play your best team, regardless of age, needs some re-education on winning.


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Yes, but what about 4-3? Surely that's towel chucking time.

 

[Mollythedolly]

You’re comparing a 27 year old to a 18 year old? The 27 year old averaged .8 more marks per game

Hmmmm, goal posts shift yet again…. At an average of 6.2 marks a game WHE was sandwiched between Henry from the Cats and Rampe from the Swans in 43rd league wide. Ahead of Naughton. Minimize it all you want, even by age if it makes you feel better. WHE is consistently one of the best ranked marks at our club. Never lower than 4.7, high of 6.7.

2022 - 5th currently
2021 - 5th
2020 - 3rd
2019 - 2nd
2018 - 7th
2017 - 4th

 

[Wearmouth]

I’d have thought the “reckon” would make it clear I was having a guess based on watching Poulter’s disposal in every VFL game this year. And if you’ve read my previous posts on this subject you’d also understand that it’s only this year I’m talking about, and that I’ve repeatedly stated he has better in him.

Even last year though, I’d highlighted on several occasions how often he unnecessarily opted to stop and prop, go back behind the mark, and then kick a long floaty mongrel punt down the line. Yeah, they’d be rated “effective” but they were all too often pretty ordinary. Love to see his stats for next possession of those down the line contests.

That said, I’m not sure why anyone would be trying to suggest Poulter’s disposal is anywhere near as good as WHE’s as it’s not even in the same postcode.

What the up and under hospital kick that WHE executes on many occasions. And let’s not talk about the lack of penetration in his kicking. I think I’ve seen a few occasions where he hasn’t made the distance on a 35m kick FFS.

Poulter would be a far superior inclusion than WHE. Without doubt. And I wouldn’t care if some disposals will go astray. As the upside would be enormous in the long run.


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[sideswipe]

Yes, but what about 4-3? Surely that's towel chucking time.

Even more so! Still high on recollections of Jackie King.


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[Apex36]

I suppose with that attitude Begg doesn’t get a game either.

And we should be hoping that Pendles and Sidey last another decade. Pendles can still play in the middle, but at what cost???,

WHE should have gone with the likes of Thomas and Mayne. Hell Mayne’s output was better. But I was glad to see the back of them both.

You bring up guys who are no longer with us. And rightfully so…….because we found out. They weren’t up to it. Can’t do that in the Magoos while WHE sh1ts it up in the seniors.

I think you’ll find that if WHE wasn’t there currently you wouldn’t even notice.


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If WHE plays a game as atrocious as Cox did against Brisbane that makes everyone never want to see him in the seniors again, then you might have a point. But please don’t pretend that Begg would have gotten a game if Cox had been even as close to as serviceable as WHE has been this year.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Not sure. I’m not on the poulter for WHE bandwagon….

But there isn’t anything I’ve seen in poulter to suggest he is much better at this stage of his career.

Yeah, physicality and 1v1 contested footy aren’t strengths imho.