Review Round 9, 2015 - Brisbane Lions vs St Kilda

[PTizzle]

Bit of hard truth guys... Rich cannot handle a tag. It's time to look at what we could get for him before he gets too old and loses value.

He's 24, one of our best players and stuck with us when he could have gone back to WA. He might struggle with a tag but if he's copping one then it just means that somebody else isn't. I'm backing him in to learn to push through them - he's had a few excellent games this year.

Not to mention he's one of only 11 players on our list with 100+ games experience with a few of them likely to finish up soon. He's more valuable to us than anything we'd get for him on the trade table. Can't see the logic in this at all.

 

[Shaq attack]

This is somewhat harsh but I think Justin Clarke has been really poor this season. He has a terrific work ethic but just seems like a really bad decision maker. Watching live against Essendon last week, the way he sets up definsively is terrible. He was consistantly five meters away from an opponent but not really protecting space.

I also understand that he has gone from a third tall to #1 defender but he seems to have a ton of fundamental issues.

 

[Cockliff38]

I don't think we can be overly critical considering the players we lost during the game, the guys playing injured (Rocky, Ceams) and the blokes missing through injury. I comfortably think we're better placed than St Kilda and given a level playing field we would've won.

In saying that the second quarter was rubbish. I wish we didn't rely solely on Rocky for leadership and direction on the field. The addition of Hanley in the coming weeks should help that.

Robertson - Putting together a great season. He and Lewis are locks on the wings for us now (writing on the wall for Bewick?).

Harris - Heard Brown say Andrews is the youngest player in the comp? Scary if true. The kid is a gem. If we ever get healthy bookends he's going to absolutely dominant.

Beams - sensational game. He's an absolute star and he's now starting to string together some very good football. Must admit it has been disappointing to see him shank a few shots from 50m - one of the features of his game while at Collingwood.

Martin - Just keeps going. Contested marking, plenty of touches = gun. Tap-work could do with some attention but he's probably only behind Goldstein in AA honours.

Lester - Seriously impressive. His last month of footy has been superb. Like Harris when we get healthy he will be an absolute weapon in the midfield and with his ability to push forward.

Green - Won't get the credit he deserves but he had 7 tackles attributed to him. Quite a high number for him.

Dawson - Too early to judge him yet because there's a lot being asked of him. Because of injuries he's being asked to play tall, where in actual fact he should be the fourth forward. Did some nice things down back though.

 

[Nunez]

This is somewhat harsh but I think Justin Clarke has been really poor this season. He has a terrific work ethic but just seems like a really bad decision maker. Watching live against Essendon last week, the way he sets up definsively is terrible. He was consistantly five meters away from an opponent but not really protecting space.

I also understand that he has gone from a third tall to #1 defender but he seems to have a ton of fundamental issues.

the entire structure of the backline is shambles mate. Last year when the pressure was off him to organize everybody whilst playing on the oppositions best be performed a lot better.

That's not to say he's been bad this year as I think for the most part he's done well. Sure he's made mistakes, but what 21 year old playing on the oppositions best wouldn't?

 

[matwt73]

Bit of hard truth guys... Rich cannot handle a tag. It's time to look at what we could get for him before he gets too old and loses value.

Yeah... No I don't agree.
He isn't 25 yet, is playing one of his best seasons for us and can do more with fewer touches than almost anyone in the team. What Rich needs is Hanley back and Rocky fit so that oppositions need to decide which of those four (including beams) they put the tag on. Zorko running into somef orm would help too.

 

[jjami15]

This is somewhat harsh but I think Justin Clarke has been really poor this season. He has a terrific work ethic but just seems like a really bad decision maker. Watching live against Essendon last week, the way he sets up definsively is terrible. He was consistantly five meters away from an opponent but not really protecting space.

I also understand that he has gone from a third tall to #1 defender but he seems to have a ton of fundamental issues.

I think thst you'll find that the backline is trying to implement a zoning type of defense and they stand a few metres in front of an opponent. I saw this time and time again last week. I think the logic of this is being in front of their man and also having the opportunity to impact on other contests helping their team mates. I think Leigh Matthews was commenting on this for the North and Collingwood match and it is something that has crept into our game (not really a fan), similar to playing a zone defense in basketball.

 

[Kevvo]

I don't think we can be overly critical considering the players we lost during the game, the guys playing injured (Rocky, Ceams) and the blokes missing through injury. I comfortably think we're better placed than St Kilda and given a level playing field we would've won.

In saying that the second quarter was rubbish. I wish we didn't rely solely on Rocky for leadership and direction on the field. The addition of Hanley in the coming weeks should help that.

Robertson - Putting together a great season. He and Lewis are locks on the wings for us now (writing on the wall for Bewick?).

Harris - Heard Brown say Andrews is the youngest player in the comp? Scary if true. The kid is a gem. If we ever get healthy bookends he's going to absolutely dominant.

Beams - sensational game. He's an absolute star and he's now starting to string together some very good football. Must admit it has been disappointing to see him shank a few shots from 50m - one of the features of his game while at Collingwood.

Martin - Just keeps going. Contested marking, plenty of touches = gun. Tap-work could do with some attention but he's probably only behind Goldstein in AA honours.

Lester - Seriously impressive. His last month of footy has been superb. Like Harris when we get healthy he will be an absolute weapon in the midfield and with his ability to push forward.

Green - Won't get the credit he deserves but he had 7 tackles attributed to him. Quite a high number for him.

Dawson - Too early to judge him yet because there's a lot being asked of him. Because of injuries he's being asked to play tall, where in actual fact he should be the fourth forward. Did some nice things down back though.

I reckon this is a good post, and I agree completely with the bulk of it.

I'm not too surprised by Beams's relatively poor goalkicking, given he's most likely totally stuffed by time he gets his shots. He is having to carry a lot of load for us.

For me, I've seen enough development this year in certain players to be pretty encouraged with where we could be at with a healthy list. As you say, Robertson and Lester have been great. I think Paps, Clarke and Andrews are long term players in those roles. Green is getting a good education in how hard he has to work to lead the forward line, which he's really expected to do for the first time this year.

The game was awful to watch after the first quarter even though we were in it most of the way, but there is only so much you can do with our injury situation and considering the umpiring (which would have been funny if it wasn't so sad).

 

[Kevvo]

I think thst you'll find that the backline is trying to implement a zoning type of defense and they stand a few metres in front of an opponent. I saw this time and time again last week. I think the logic of this is being in front of their man and also having the opportunity to impact on other contests helping their team mates. I think Leigh Matthews was commenting on this for the North and Collingwood match and it is something that has crept into our game (not really a fan), similar to playing a zone defense in basketball.

I also reckon some of it is a necessary evil given the light bodies in our backline. It doesn't look great, but neither would it look great to have them pushed off the ball in early body contact.

When the zone defence is working properly it results in a lot of turnover marks too, where the first defender can block the offensive target and the second can drift in for an uncontested mark. This depends on relatively slow entries though. Personally, I think it is more for that reason than anything offensive that is leading the coaches to try to slow the game down with stoppages. It's a balancing act, because we're finding it really hard to generate offence at that pace and are turning it over too much.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

We should sack everyone.

Out of interest which of these observations do you not think is fair?

 

[carnthemlions]

Longer has always been an elite jumper, and this will get him to the ball first, more often than not, but he is not a good footballer.

He's a good tap ruckman, but he's an absolute plodder in every other aspect of the game. I'm not sure what they've done to Hickey, he was looking like a much more well rounded ruckman not so long ago.

 

[Skoob]

I reckon Longer did much better at the centre "bounce" when the ump had to recall the bounce (far too often) and throw it up...it really suited him and provided a distinct advantage.

Interesting observation, hard to see from where I sit.
Last week, quite a few commentators questioned the value/relevance of the bounce these days, now that the ball is thrown around the ground or second effort ball ups, but the bounce provides a level of uncertainty and chance. Taking the bounce away, sterilises the centre ball up somewhat and reduces the skill required to win the tap. The bounce must stay, and umpires it seems, need to practise more.

 

[royboys4eva]

Longer and Berger should be enough proof that you never waste your first pick in a draft on a ruck. Rucks are a long term project and in case of these two guys good tap ruckman but awful around the ground - although i think big Berger has a lot more ability than Longer. Smarter clubs soon figured it out and just went out and traded for a ruck when they needed it. I will be surprised if a young ruck is drafted inside the top 10 in future drafts.

 

[Monterronaldo]

Ran into Michael Close and Dan Mcstay outside the Gabba and was told that Aishy broke his jaw yesterday still played out the game.

Say what you will about the kid but in my view that is a bloody big effort.

By my count we had Rocky, Claye and Aish all playing hurt in that game so effort was definitely there from the boys.

 

[iBeng]

That was a pretty bad hit on Aish as well, knee to the jaw and everything...would be in doubt for the Giants you'd think...

 

[carnthemlions]

Ran into Michael Close and Dan Mcstay outside the Gabba and was told that Aishy broke his jaw yesterday still played out the game.

Say what you will about the kid but in my view that is a bloody big effort.

By my count we had Rocky, Claye and Aish all playing hurt in that game so effort was definitely there from the boys.

So that would make three players who played out the game despite being fairly seriously hampered by injuries. Tough to win in those circumstances.
Aish was off the ground for a while being checked out but still went hard in a few contests later in the game. I don't think you could question his commitment after doing that with a broken jaw.

 

[a mayes ing]

Bit of hard truth guys... Rich cannot handle a tag. It's time to look at what we could get for him before he gets too old and loses value.

 

[Monterronaldo]

So that would make three players who played out the game despite being fairly seriously hampered by injuries. Tough to win in those circumstances.
Aish was off the ground for a while being checked out but still went hard in a few contests later in the game. I don't think you could question his commitment after doing that with a broken jaw.

Yeah no wonder Rocky said he was so proud of thr effort. Looks like thr boys really battled for the jumper on the weekend

 

[blynd_freddie]

Longer and Berger should be enough proof that you never waste your first pick in a draft on a ruck. Rucks are a long term project and in case of these two guys good tap ruckman but awful around the ground - although i think big Berger has a lot more ability than Longer. Smarter clubs soon figured it out and just went out and traded for a ruck when they needed it. I will be surprised if a young ruck is drafted inside the top 10 in future drafts.

Nic says hi - this kids value both on and off the field is worth a top 10 pick IMO.

But I do agree with your point and suggestion that going forward more often than not, a single numbered draft selection will no longer be used on an 18 year old ruckman - having said that, supply and demand would then suggest to trade for a top grade mature ruckman clubs would demand a single numbered draft pick.

Given 10/20 years of that, they I wouldn't be surprised if free agency compensation points were twisted to make it harder to trade and cheaper/easier to take risks drafting with top 10 picks again.

 

[Cockliff38]

Ran into Michael Close and Dan Mcstay outside the Gabba and was told that Aishy broke his jaw yesterday still played out the game.

Say what you will about the kid but in my view that is a bloody big effort.

Completely agree. The Aish bashing on social media has been disgraceful. If he wasn't out of contract his 'attitude/effort' would barely rate a mention. If you ask me he has a naturally laconic nature. He might look like he's cruising but that's just his persona

 

[a mayes ing]

Completely agree. The Aish bashing on social media has been disgraceful. If he wasn't out of contract his 'attitude/effort' would barely rate a mention. If you ask me he has a naturally laconic nature. He might look like he's cruising but that's just his persona

I dont agree with that. We bash on Close and McStay for laziiness and effort even tho they re-signed so l don't see why Aish would be any different.

 

[dlanod]

I dont agree with that. We bash on Close and McStay for laziiness and effort even tho they re-signed so l don't see why Aish would be any different.

He specifically said social media, not BF. The degree of Aish bashing versus the other two is massive.

 

[MacMum]

In light of all the injuries occurring during the game, I don't think any of us can now continue to be critical of the boys under these circumstances.

Would seem most unfair to me. Top effort imo.

 

[Cousin Jed]

Bloody Brett Burton

 

[LIONS08]

Weller copped a week with an early plea for his hit on Bewick.

 

[Grizzly86]

All things considered, you'd have to envisage the Saints are in for a long season, considering the key injuries we had going into yesterday, let alone the injuries that we carried through the match. It took their 19th and 20th men to kick them into gear and they were far from convincing, and they were only missing Sam Fisher.