Autopsy Round 9, 2024: Hawthorn v St.Kilda

[BucketsandBanger]

I cannot believe this club is doing it again. Ruining another high end talents development. Owens has Cripps and Fyfe level contested potential as a midfielder and is wasting away as a third tall in a broken forward line. Of all the disappointments of this year that is by far number 1.

 

[SteeleSaints]

We can hammer on about being a young side all we like, but at the end of the day they are not why we lost today. We lost because we got flogged at the fall of the ball, fell off tackles and couldnt handle Hawthorns pressure. That starts at the top with the senior and supposedly highly rated players. You know the kids are going to be up and down and take time thats a given.

The group are being coached to slow the game down and attempt to maintain possession but when its turned over those same players are still going at half speed. So much for us being a strong running attacking back half side, because our game style has gone completely away from anything that resembles that. That is responsibility of the coaches and no one else as is our completely dysfunctional forward line.

Harvey is a club great but he has made a complete meal of the forward line coaching this year. We have far too many key players out of form and playing confused one out football. If Lyon does anything this season he needs to find a credentialled forward coach, because we have gone significantly backwards in that area.

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

Training standards are awesome

Too bad we are training the boringest game style

 

[phantom13]

Ross said himself we're trying to play kids and win at the same time. So yes he is playing for the now.

Going swimmingly.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Yep

Ross has always been a great game day coach. We're having to rely on that far too much to keep us in games.

It'll give us the odd sugar hit but it's taking us nowhere long term.

I think you're on the money that they've lost their mojo. Our mojo bunny Liam Henry was significantly worst on ground with 4 touches from 82% TOG so basically we were 1 player down the whole game. It's hard to see the way forward ATM, we've been poor all year outside of 1 game.

 

[snails13]

Most disappointing season I have ever experienced as a Saints supporter.

Key youngsters like Owens, Pou and even NAS have fallen off a cliff.

King playing crap.

Coaching utterly putrid. Lyon is cooked.

You must be young if this is the worst season you've seen

 

[Cairnsman]

Hahaha. Wow Cairnsman, we have it in writing now
In all honesty it couldn't possibly be any worse really. At least Sharman moves, he may be your Titanic, but at least the Titanic was able to leave the docks.
King is just a giant bollard holding everything back.

I’m officially team Sharman tonight.

 

[sauce_head]

Cool, can stop watching this year. A bottom 4 side it is.

Stop watching?! Yeah you know you can’t…!

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

getting rid of gresh really say that Ross thinks we are miles off it. That and letting billings and Coff go said the same. I think he expected us to go backward this year but not at this rate. No one be fooled, we are in a rebuild

So we trip into finals and that's it?

 

[snails13]

Season done from here.
Get dow and ari in to see what they can do.
Honestly may as well tank hard from here and try to get a pick in the top 3
Trade out some of our over rated players and see if we can get some elite talent in.
Our midfield just gets slaughtered every week. We are so so desperate for some decent midfielders.

On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

Do we get worse if we tank?

 

[Tyrian Lonestar]

Worst part of this year so far, it seems that flog Kane Cornes was right about the Saints after all

 

[Saints43]

You do understand there were 3x first year players put there today right?

In between the despair there were times where you looked at the screen and there'd be four players in view and I'd think "there's about 50 games there".
Not excusing what a shite performance that was but there were plenty of kids out there.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Great post, some people can see it, do we want to be the same old saints? Only 2nd year into Rtb and a total overhaul of footy dept and the players will be next, this is a 5 year plan too many people think we under achieving well maybe a little but we definitely over achieved last year

What we have seen this year is the same old saints.

 

[saintbill]

You must be young if this is the worst season you've seen

42. So seen plenty of crap Saints teams. This one is the most boring.

I think this team is capable of decent footy, but almost every player is well down on form.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Nash and Newcombe bullied our mids at times meanwhile one of our best contested players in Chito sits deep forward most the game, kills me

Mitch was given significant time in the middle today and did jack shit.

On Pixel 6a using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[The Boar]

So I hope the Club is in the acceptance stage of grief now.


We got absolutely out played by Hawthorn and I'm thankful we lost. A win would have papered over the cracks and proved nothing.


PRO'S

• Battle is a gun. What a swing man, give him anything he wants to stay. He presents better than King. He defends better than Howard. He is a rare breed, make him rich.
• King much better effort than last week. Still a long way to go but I saw some aggression. More of that Max, time to care.
• Wilkie back in business, was a wall.

CON'S

• Our midfield is terrible (we know).
• Marshall props up our clearances but does so with predictable dump kicks forward. For some wild reason, our forwards don't play in front and can't predict these kicks. Marshall must have had 6-10 direct turnovers but you can't blame him being under pressure. Our forward line is a rabble, poorly coached.
• Membrey ain't pushing the needle anymore. Time to go.
• Game style was pathetic. Beta cucks moving the ball slowly down the line against a well set up unit. Turnover city.
• Conversely, we don't set up behind the ball well. This was a 2023 hallmark which has disappeared. They had very simple, uncontested simple marks inside 50.
• I changed my tip late to St Kilda. I got sucked in with the hope trap. Never hope with St Kilda.
• Garcia can only tackle right now.

Play the kids.
Battle forward, Membrey out.

 

[pebblesofsand]

No hissy fit here, just reality.

We’re not winning games whilst making sure Riley Bonner and co keep getting games so really we’re not doing either thing.

Great progress.

30 possessions, 700 metres gained, pretty much the only bloke in the team who can actually hit a forward on the lead - Bonner is not the problem.

A totally non existent clearance strategy (unless the plan is actually just hack it foward out of a contest and f***ing hope it goes near a Saints player) is the real problem.

 

[thekizzler]

Max King

12

Max King

Age

24

Ht

202cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

3star

G

1.4

5star

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

1star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

2.8

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

0.6

3star

G

1.4

5star

has laid three tackles this season.

Three tackles in six games.

I understand that his primary job is to kick goals and not tackle.

But forward pressure as an individual and as a team unit is incredibly important these days.

King is simply not pulling his weight in this regard. His second efforts, his work ethic in the team unit and his desire to win the football.

When he is kicking 2.5 goals a game (like in 2022 and 2023), you forgive some of these work rate issues as the scoreboard contribution is strong. And you say to yourself, that these work rate issues will be coached out of him and he will improve.

But it seems to be getting worse. Both facets of his game. Against North, he took his first mark for the match at the 20 minute mark of the 3rd quarter. Against what I believe is one of the worst defences I've seen at AFL level. Yes, the delivery is not brilliant at the moment but neither is the presentation from King to the footy. Gee it was refreshing to see Hayes leading at the ball carrier and marking on the lead on few occasions vs. North.

King needs to be the leader of the forward line. Both attacking and defensive efforts. You can deal with King having an off game with marks and goals if he is fighting like hell when the ball hits the ground and putting on significant pressure as defenders try to clear. But this is not happening.

This is not the Saints biggest problem at the moment but not solving this particular issue is going to stop us from being a great team if we get a lot of other things right.

And I don't know what the solution is. King was always supposed to be someone that could help take us to the promised land and right now that's looking less and less likely.

That's what spurring all the King melts in the forum. No doubt about it.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Midfield is shit. We get bullied there every week.

Marshall has to resort to grabbing it and kicking it because we can't win a proper clearance.

Game style needs to be worked on.

Forwards are out of form because we are giving them next to no chance with how we are moving the ball.

On Pixel 6a using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Saintsydney]

Not read the entire thread so may be repeating someone

We clearly have problems but the goal kicking is what ultimately loses matches 5-9 at one point 9-5 would have had us winners

Watched the first half of Melbourne v Carlton - there was 1 point between them at half time

On their set shots they held the ball lace up pointed at goal walked in straight - both teams

We spin it as we walk in for set shots - refuse to do drop punts on anything more than a 45 degree angle ( kick hooks on our wrong feet etc etc )- weirdly we miss a lot of goals ???

It it is so basic it does my head in every week ( I have commented on this many times )

I just don’t understand how a professional team continues to operate this way

I’ve got a few more gripes re today but this issue is week by week and I would have thought it football forward craft 101 but we can’t seem to grasp it

 

[Saints43]

Mitch was given significant time in the middle today and did jack s**t.

On Pixel 6a using BigFooty.com mobile app

I blame Scully111 for putting too much pressure on him.

 

[phantom13]

30 possessions, 700 metres gained, pretty much the only bloke in the team who can actually hit a forward on the lead - Bonner is not the problem.

A totally non existent clearance strategy (unless the plan is actually just hack it foward out of a contest and f***ing hope it goes near a Saints player) is the real problem.

… ffs. Bonner playing in a team that’s neither winning nor rebuilding is exactly the problem. Prick could have 80 if we’re kicking 7 goals, losing and he’s keeping a kid out of the team it’s an issue. I don’t know how people seem to be seeing my complaint as having anything to do with whether he’s good or not.

 

[Saints43]

… ffs. Bonner playing in a team that’s neither winning nor rebuilding is exactly the problem. Prick could have 80 if we’re kicking 7 goals, losing and he’s keeping a kid out of the team it’s an issue. I don’t know how people seem to be seeing my complaint as having anything to do with whether he’s good or not.

You can't just play 22 kids.
They won't learn anything getting flogged every week. We've seen teams try that.

 

[phantom13]

You can't just play 22 kids.
They won't learn anything getting flogged every week. We've seen teams ty that.

Mate, we’re getting flogged anyway. Having a kid rolling around with no opponent off half back and kicking 5 goals instead of 7 is going to make zero difference to the result.

 

[Saints43]

Mate, we’re getting flogged anyway. Having a kid rolling around with no opponent off half back and kicking 5 goals instead of 7 is going to make zero difference to the result.

We're not getting flogged.