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Runknisse said:
My main points (which seems to have been lost amongst the bullshit) was that there's been complete lack of empathy shown towards those of us who support this club and common sense has been lost forever it would seem.
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You ask for empathy for EFC supporters, and I think everyone was feeling that for you guys early on, but after 6 months of EFC supporters excusing everything done by the club and Hird in particular, that empathy has gone.

If the EFC supporters had of demanded that those with power at the club that either let this happen by not doing their job or actually participated in the program were sacked or at the minimum stood down, the us opposition supporters would have been standing right behing you guys and applauding you while feeling empathy towards you.

But instead you guys rallied behind Hird and everyone in positions of power, making excuses for their lack of governance and in many cases trying to excuse all the evidence that keeps getting leaked that shows they were complicit.

In affect EFC supporters started acting like Hird and Evans is their club, when in reality coaches and CEO's have come and gone in their thousands through every club, etc.
 
DrEvil said:
Do you think the following are facts?
- Jobe Watson injected with AOD9604 on multiple occassions (from Jobe's own mouth)
- AOD9604 is banned since 2011 (from the head of WADA, multiple times)
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I think Jobe told the truth to ASADA/AFL and during that interview. I have read and acknowledge that AOD9604 is a banned substance with WADA.
I also think if your club goes to a governing body (ASADA) and asks them directly if that drug is banned and they tell you 'no it's not' then what have you done wrong? I think any club would protest that if it had occurred to them and rightly so.

It's whose view beats whose.
 
Runknisse said:
I've been completely blown away at the venom like sheer vitriol directed towards the Essendon football club, it's players, staff, members & supporter base by the majority here on BigFooty. It's been made clear on more than one occasion (especially by our Mods) that none of us know for sure what has happened but despite that there seems to be a real mindset to 'burn the witch' no matter what people say. What has happened to common sense??

Keeping all of this in mind not one single Essendon supporter, past player, member, boot studder etc asked for any of this, not one of us and there's plenty of hurt going around, all of it completely unnecessary, you can be sure of that.

The complete lack of empathy shown towards those of us who support this club has been nothing short of despicable and to those who claim 'you'd be rubbing it in our faces if the shoes was on the other foot' well you don't know me, you don't know any of us and to use that as a excuse to exercise your hatred and prejudices is a disgrace.

August 5th can't come soon enough for those of us connected to this club so we can be done with this once and for all.

My wish to all clubs and it's supporters is that you never go through this.
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I'm a Sharkies fan. I know what you're going through.

If the Sharkies are guilty, and it looks like they could be, we should be punished.

I don't understand the attitude of Essendon fans. Surely you can understand why people think you are guilty? Most of it is because Jobe admitted to taking what he thought was AOD, and WADA/ASADA confirming it is prohibited/not approved. If Jobe's interview hadn't happened, this whole saga would be very different.
 

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Runknisse said:
I respect your post but I disagree.



I'm not one for lectures and should we be found guilty then bring down the guillotine, by all means.

My main points (which seems to have been lost amongst the bullshit) was that there's been complete lack of empathy shown towards those of us who support this club and common sense has been lost forever it would seem.
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Unfortunately it's Big Footy. You don't need to pass a character test to be able to post nor do you need any qualifications!
That said most posters are sympathetic to the Essendon supporters. There will always be those on both sides that get emotional and carried away and get personal. It's footy and we love our clubs so that is expected.
I guess the best defense the Essendon posters have had here is to say wait and see the whole story. Of course we should but we know there have been leaks from the AFL, Essendon and maybe even ASADA of facts. Some are undeniably damning. Posters like yourself should be taking aim at the people at Essendon that orchestrated this. It has led to many people losing their job and more importantly endangering young men's lives by exposing them to experimental drugs. We know that much is true as your own report stated so. We all expect the Hird defense to be that ASADA told them that AOD was not banned by WADA as is stated in the ACC report. We also know that Dank was told by WADA to specifically check its S0 status with ASADA which there is no evidence presented that he did. It seems he chose not to. We also know he used Thymosin although there is some doubt on which type. We do not know the financial interest that Hird and Evans may have had in Calzada/AOD.
Anyway, don't get too worried about BF. Focus on helping your club rid those responsible for bringing it to its knees and then help in its recovery from this terrible event.
Keep your chin up son!
 
mellowyellow said:
I understand your passion and loyalty.Seriously, I get it.
What I don't get is how this unrestrained adoration of James Hird is clouding the collective judgement of a large section of your supporter base.
Cults could not wish for a more submissive or mailable group
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Aligning us with 'cult like' similarity is a bit harsh but I can see your point. As I said, there will always be those who can't see past their own colours, every club has them.
 
The vitriol is because the EFC have cheated to get an advantage, plain and simple. This is what people "believe", and there has been enough discussion, articles, evidence that gives those that do believe this a pretty good foundation.

If you break the rules of fairness you will get hated on. Have a look on the main board about Selwood's ducking. Most people view this as unfair and he and people that blindly support his ducking get hated on because they think it is unfair.

All people really want is fairness, and the EFC have abused it. Defending it is like a middle finger to the most basic law of society. Is this so hard to understand?
 
Suma Magic said:
I'm a Sharkies fan. I know what you're going through.

If the Sharkies are guilty, and it looks like they could be, we should be punished.

I don't understand the attitude of Essendon fans. Surely you can understand why people think you are guilty? Most of it is because Jobe admitted to taking what he thought was AOD, and WADA/ASADA confirming it is prohibited/not approved. If Jobe's interview hadn't happened, this whole saga would be very different.
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What plays out, plays out in the end. Whether Jobe giving that interview was a clever thing, I don't know, however the media would've got a hold of something nonetheless.
 
Runknisse said:
Aligning us with 'cult like' similarity is a bit harsh but I can see your point. As I said, there will always be those who can't see past their own colours, every club has them.
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It was used merely to illustrate a point..... and no scientologists were in killed or maimed in its execution :D
 
Runknisse said:
I think Jobe told the truth to ASADA/AFL and during that interview. I have read and acknowledge that AOD9604 is a banned substance with WADA.
I also think if your club goes to a governing body (ASADA) and asks them directly if that drug is banned and they tell you 'no it's not' then what have you done wrong? I think any club would protest that if it had occurred to them and rightly so.

It's whose view beats whose.
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Since you value facts and official sources, can your claim be consider a "fact" as opposed to the ones I put forward? Where is the source of your claim? Am I right in thinking that you, along with many of your fellow Essendon supporters, are throwing smokes and screens to obfuscate the actually facts that we know?
 
Runknisse said:
What plays out, plays out in the end. Whether Jobe giving that interview was a clever thing, I don't know, however the media would've got a hold of something nonetheless.
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Agree to disagree.

My point is that as a Sharkies fan, I know what you are going through, and still completely misunderstand the view of Essendon fans. I cannot relate at all.

If we have cheated, then ill be furious at the club. The media covering it are just doing their job. The opposition fans are just angry at the possibility we cheated.
 
rose jam said:
The vitriol is because the EFC have cheated to get an advantage, plain and simple. This is what people "believe", and there has been enough discussion, articles, evidence that gives those that do believe this a pretty good foundation.

If you break the rules of fairness you will get hated on. Have a look on the main board about Selwood's ducking. Most people view this as unfair and he and people that blindly support his ducking get hated on because they think it is unfair.

All people really want is fairness, and the EFC have abused it. Defending it is like a middle finger to the most basic law of society. Is this so hard to understand?
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I see you point, but if you're saying as a result it's ok to extend hatred and expel shit to every Essendon supporter for something that was beyond our control, well no, it's simply not cool at all.
 

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I admit I have been blinded.......blinded by the articles, and blinded by my intelligence to put two and two together and work out that what EFC did was cheating and that they out their players at risk. I am also blinded by the dazzling lies that keep coming out of EFC and their great leader.
 
Suma Magic said:
Agree to disagree.

My point is that as a Sharkies fan, I know what you are going through, and still completely misunderstand the view of Essendon fans. I cannot relate at all.

If we have cheated, then ill be furious at the club. The media covering it are just doing their job. The opposition fans are just angry at the possibility we cheated.
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So you've not spoken with any Bomber fans who believe that drugs are a bad thing? I don't believe it.
 
mellowyellow said:
I understand your passion and loyalty.Seriously, I get it.
What I don't get is how this unrestrained adoration of James Hird is clouding the collective judgement of a large section of your supporter base.
Cults could not wish for a more submissive or mailable group
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It's amazing isn't it. The identification with a sporting hero has reached delusional levels. The fall's gonna be hard.
 
Runknisse said:
I think Jobe told the truth to ASADA/AFL and during that interview. I have read and acknowledge that AOD9604 is a banned substance with WADA.
I also think if your club goes to a governing body (ASADA) and asks them directly if that drug is banned and they tell you 'no it's not' then what have you done wrong? I think any club would protest that if it had occurred to them and rightly so.

It's whose view beats whose.
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This is a perfect example of the bias that most objective viewers of this saga see from all Essendon posters.

You asked people to reserve judgement based on facts.

DrEvil presented 2 facts, which you quite rightly did not deny. You then presented that ASADA told Essendon that AOD was not banned as though that was fact, despite Essendon never claiming this in any public forum and ASADA specifically denying this. Essendon having approval for AOD is merely speculation at this point. And the only evidence (facts) we have on this point currently is the released emails from WADA showing Dank trying to ask leading questions and ignoring parts of the answers he didn't like. By far the most likely scenario is that Dank took this same approach with ASADA.
 
Runknisse said:
So you've not spoken with any Bomber fans who believe that drugs are a bad thing? I don't believe it.
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The bombers fans I know think they should be punished if they're guilty. They don't think they're guilty.

My point is that the bombers fans on here don't understand why the media is covering this the way they are, or why opposition fans are reacting the way they are. As I've said, as a sharks fan, this response makes no sense to me.
 
Spanish_Fly said:
This is a perfect example of the bias that most objective viewers of this saga see from all Essendon posters.

You asked people to reserve judgement based on facts.

DrEvil presented 2 facts, which you quite rightly did not deny. You then presented that ASADA told Essendon that AOD was not banned as though that was fact, despite Essendon never claiming this in any public forum and ASADA specifically denying this. Essendon having approval for AOD is merely speculation at this point. And the only evidence (facts) we have on this point currently is the released emails from WADA showing Dank trying to ask leading questions and ignoring parts of the answers he didn't like. By far the most likely scenario is that Dank took this same approach with ASADA.
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I simply presented a personal opinion on what has already been widely talked about. If it never happened then I'm more than happy to stand corrected.
 
Suma Magic said:
The bombers fans I know think they should be punished if they're guilty. They don't think they're guilty.

My point is that the bombers fans on here don't understand why the media is covering this the way they are, or why opposition fans are reacting the way they are. As I've said, as a sharks fan, this response makes no sense to me.
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Until all facts are presented to us I cant see why Opposition supporters are coming out and saying we should be against the club we love. Seriously not hard to understand at all.
 
Runknisse said:
I simply presented a personal opinion on what has already been widely talked about. If it never happened then I'm more than happy to stand corrected.
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You asked for facts.

Fair enough but therein lies the conjecture. You have to try and see it from our eyes and don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be a smartarse here just have an intelligent conversation with you if I can. Our questions will of course always be 'How is it fact?' 'What proof makes it fact?' Nothing offifical has been released by the AFL or ASADA. None of us are experts. Just because that glasses wearing flog from the Hun says he heard something doesn't mean it's true.
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I gave you facts, to which you counter with "personal opinion on what has already been widely talked about". Maybe you should heed to your own advice.
 
theboxmike said:
Until all facts are presented to us I cant see why Opposition supporters are coming out and saying we should be against the club we love. Seriously not hard to understand at all.
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You don't get it. When EFC supporters decided that Hird and co. were equivalent to the club which has a history of 100+ years, us opposition fans lost all empathy for you.

If you guys demanded that everyone at your club that either let it happen or was complicit in it happening was cleaned out, you would have had every footy fan applauding you and feeling empathy towards you supporters who were effed over by the admin at your club.

Intsead you guys chose loyalty to Hird over loyalty to Hird, tried to use every excuse under the sun, accepted the non stop changing stories by those running your club and thumbed your noses at the rest of the footy world simpy because you were winning games.
 
theboxmike said:
Until all facts are presented to us I cant see why Opposition supporters are coming out and saying we should be against the club we love. Seriously not hard to understand at all.
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It's more that you never see any Essendon posters saying "if we're found guilty the club will have hell to pay!", and no one understands this. If the sharks are guilty ill be mad at those responsible within the club, and no one else. Ill hate that we are cheats. I hope we're not, but I fear we might be. Its not the media's fault, and it's perfectly understandable for opposition NRL fans to be mad at us for what we may have done. We may not be guilty, but they aren't investigating us and only us for no reason. The players deserve the fans to hold the club to account if guilty, not look to shift blame.
 
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