Coach Sam Mitchell's direction for the club and 2024 news

[Strapping Young Lad]

If anyone wants to have a listen about what the data is saying in regards to whether we have actually gotten worse this year have a listen to this from the 9:15 mark.

I know a few people have already touched on it, but the data is also showing that our results this year have been slightly better despite actually putting out a younger team and dealing with some injuries.




And here.

 

[peetoo]

Worth a revisit.

There was plenty of ‘favourite sons don’t succeed as coaches’ not all of course, plenty of folk were happy

Sam is different
—- although he knows how to win sustainably, he also has had to improve his own skill set as a player, late age pick, rather than it all coming easy to him
—— he did a legitimate coaching apprenticeship

 

[Roddy]

What I’ve liked most about this year is (and it hasn’t been mentioned much) that, in amongst all the ‘Hollywood Hawks’ hype, we’ve shown great mental fortitude. This young side could have caved at myriad moments this year - after the 0-5 start, after the heartbreaking port loss, after the recent Geelong loss, even after the bigger bodies threatened to overwhelm us in the first on Sunday- but we didn’t, we rose above and hit back.

 

[The Chad and I]

Gold Coast, Sydney, and Geelong losses were embarrassing.

Each time the team bounced back strongly.

Now we are able to recompose and come back after a slow start.

These are great signs for a developing team.

It’s not just a winning streak, it’s the method and maturity that we’re seeing that is most impressive.

We are further ahead now than we could’ve dreamed at the start of the season.

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

Worth a revisit.

There was plenty of ‘favourite sons don’t succeed as coaches’ not all of course, plenty of folk were happy

Sam is different
—- although he knows how to win sustainably, he also has had to improve his own skill set as a player, late age pick, rather than it all coming easy to him
—— he did a legitimate coaching apprenticeship

Also did the coaching courses, not simply a favourite son.

 

[TP86]

Not to be a total buzzkill but I do think a lot of this streak has been a prolonged dead cat bounce once we were in a hopeless position. Part of the fun was us being the perceived bad team, knocking off perceived better teams. But it just kept going and going, and us not moving up the ladder for most of it only made it even more enjoyable.

Something funky has happened with the last two seasons where teams have come back from dead positions and teams with wins in the bank have gone off the edge of a cliff. This league was predictable for quite a while with "top 8 set after 6 rounds" sort of narrative having gone on the backburner now that we see wild swings in win-loss.

Changing from 22 to 23 H&A games can't have had THAT dramatic an effect so maybe it's a cumulative effect with less preseason and competitive games starting closer to summer than ever before. I feel like this Hawthorn run is part of a phenomenon we need more data to assess rather than something we specifically as a club are doing.

The list is still a fair way off. Have we had a single 'good' loss this season? I feel like there hasn't been a single game this season which was a loss to take something away from, they were all just largely bad and uncompetitive showings, and the once-in-a-decade Port disaster in its own category.

We are on the right track but I also think with the wrong fixture we're 0-4 or 1-5 next year and right back where we were this season.

 

[theiaofseed]

Not to be a total buzzkill but I do think a lot of this streak has been a prolonged dead cat bounce once we were in a hopeless position. Part of the fun was us being the perceived bad team, knocking off perceived better teams. But it just kept going and going, and us not moving up the ladder for most of it only made it even more enjoyable.

Something funky has happened with the last two seasons where teams have come back from dead positions and teams with wins in the bank have gone off the edge of a cliff. This league was predictable for quite a while with "top 8 set after 6 rounds" sort of narrative having gone on the backburner now that we see wild swings in win-loss.

Changing from 22 to 23 H&A games can't have had THAT dramatic an effect so maybe it's a cumulative effect with less preseason and competitive games starting closer to summer than ever before. I feel like this Hawthorn run is part of a phenomenon we need more data to assess rather than something we specifically as a club are doing.

The list is still a fair way off. Have we had a single 'good' loss this season? I feel like there hasn't been a single game this season which was a loss to take something away from, they were all just largely bad and uncompetitive showings, and the once-in-a-decade Port disaster in its own category.

We are on the right track but I also think with the wrong fixture we're 0-4 or 1-5 next year and right back where we were this season.

That is some fair opposition cope.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

What I’ve liked most about this year is (and it hasn’t been mentioned much) that, in amongst all the ‘Hollywood Hawks’ hype, we’ve shown great mental fortitude. This young side could have caved at myriad moments this year - after the 0-5 start, after the heartbreaking port loss, after the recent Geelong loss, even after the bigger bodies threatened to overwhelm us in the first on Sunday- but we didn’t, we rose above and hit back.

I feel like all the hollywood stuff is completely missing the point.

The players aren't a bunch of ratbags doing whatever the hell they want. They're a team doing exactly what they should in a very disciplined way, but being given the freedom to express and show some personality along the way.

The media will talk about the celebrations as the cause of the good run and, if we hit poor form, the reason for that as well.

 

[jenniferHAWKinS]

Not to be a total buzzkill but I do think a lot of this streak has been a prolonged dead cat bounce once we were in a hopeless position. Part of the fun was us being the perceived bad team, knocking off perceived better teams. But it just kept going and going, and us not moving up the ladder for most of it only made it even more enjoyable.

Something funky has happened with the last two seasons where teams have come back from dead positions and teams with wins in the bank have gone off the edge of a cliff. This league was predictable for quite a while with "top 8 set after 6 rounds" sort of narrative having gone on the backburner now that we see wild swings in win-loss.

Changing from 22 to 23 H&A games can't have had THAT dramatic an effect so maybe it's a cumulative effect with less preseason and competitive games starting closer to summer than ever before. I feel like this Hawthorn run is part of a phenomenon we need more data to assess rather than something we specifically as a club are doing.

The list is still a fair way off. Have we had a single 'good' loss this season? I feel like there hasn't been a single game this season which was a loss to take something away from, they were all just largely bad and uncompetitive showings, and the once-in-a-decade Port disaster in its own category.

We are on the right track but I also think with the wrong fixture we're 0-4 or 1-5 next year and right back where we were this season.

Hello David king

 

[The Golden Glenferrie]

The list is still a fair way off. Have we had a single 'good' loss this season? I feel like there hasn't been a single game this season which was a loss to take something away from, they were all just largely bad and uncompetitive showings, and the once-in-a-decade Port disaster in its own category.

That's where the difference between our best and worst needs to shrink.

I reckon the next two weeks will give us an indication

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Not to be a total buzzkill but I do think a lot of this streak has been a prolonged dead cat bounce once we were in a hopeless position. Part of the fun was us being the perceived bad team, knocking off perceived better teams. But it just kept going and going, and us not moving up the ladder for most of it only made it even more enjoyable.

Something funky has happened with the last two seasons where teams have come back from dead positions and teams with wins in the bank have gone off the edge of a cliff. This league was predictable for quite a while with "top 8 set after 6 rounds" sort of narrative having gone on the backburner now that we see wild swings in win-loss.

Changing from 22 to 23 H&A games can't have had THAT dramatic an effect so maybe it's a cumulative effect with less preseason and competitive games starting closer to summer than ever before. I feel like this Hawthorn run is part of a phenomenon we need more data to assess rather than something we specifically as a club are doing.

The list is still a fair way off. Have we had a single 'good' loss this season? I feel like there hasn't been a single game this season which was a loss to take something away from, they were all just largely bad and uncompetitive showings, and the once-in-a-decade Port disaster in its own category.

We are on the right track but I also think with the wrong fixture we're 0-4 or 1-5 next year and right back where we were this season.

The funkiness is due to the draw becoming more weighted, and less sequenced.

e.g. you used to play all opposition sides, one at a time, and then the last 5 or 6 rounds were the teams you had double ups against. Now we're playing Carlton for the first time in a couple of weeks even though we've played Collingwood, Adelaide and GWS twice by then.

Also the weighted fixture (poor sides get easier double ups) means that we will get double games against Richmond and North which is a bonus 8 points that only 3 other teams will get.

So it used to be that if you perform well in the first 8 weeks that probably play out with minimal fluctuation because everything is attempting to be the same for each side. Now they are optimising for equal outcome (i.e. this is by design) and for maximising viewers.

 

[Tuck In]

The kudos I’d give to Sam and his team of coaches, recruiters and back room staff is that in recognising we have no superstar KPP players or the true, elite midfielder they have developed such an even game plan that means all contribute and understand their value to the collective outcome.

Each player knows what they need to do and why and then understands that each contribution builds the final outcome. True team ethos.

 

[KermitJagger]

Not to be a total buzzkill but I do think a lot of this streak has been a prolonged dead cat bounce once we were in a hopeless position. Part of the fun was us being the perceived bad team, knocking off perceived better teams. But it just kept going and going, and us not moving up the ladder for most of it only made it even more enjoyable.

Something funky has happened with the last two seasons where teams have come back from dead positions and teams with wins in the bank have gone off the edge of a cliff. This league was predictable for quite a while with "top 8 set after 6 rounds" sort of narrative having gone on the backburner now that we see wild swings in win-loss.

Changing from 22 to 23 H&A games can't have had THAT dramatic an effect so maybe it's a cumulative effect with less preseason and competitive games starting closer to summer than ever before. I feel like this Hawthorn run is part of a phenomenon we need more data to assess rather than something we specifically as a club are doing.

The list is still a fair way off. Have we had a single 'good' loss this season? I feel like there hasn't been a single game this season which was a loss to take something away from, they were all just largely bad and uncompetitive showings, and the once-in-a-decade Port disaster in its own category.

We are on the right track but I also think with the wrong fixture we're 0-4 or 1-5 next year and right back where we were this season.

How long do you predict this dead cat to bounce for, and how high?

And I disagree that there was nothing to take out of some of those losses. The Port one was a bad capitulation we haven't repeated, the Essendon game we should have won on predicted score and comfortably beat them in most stats besides accuracy, then there's the Collingwood game we almost completed a 40+ point comeback in. That's if you completely disregard the other losses where, tbh, only the Gold Coast one really depressed me.

I get not being confident yet but we're young and this is a side where no key players should be on a downward slide yet, while most of the team should continue improving. Why support a club if you're going to be this negative about them?

 

[peetoo]

The funkiness is due to the draw becoming more weighted, and less sequenced.

e.g. you used to play all opposition sides, one at a time, and then the last 5 or 6 rounds were the teams you had double ups against. Now we're playing Carlton for the first time in a couple of weeks even though we've played Collingwood, Adelaide and GWS twice by then.

Also the weighted fixture (poor sides get easier double ups) means that we will get double games against Richmond and North which is a bonus 8 points that only 3 other teams will get.

So it used to be that if you perform well in the first 8 weeks that probably play out with minimal fluctuation because everything is attempting to be the same for each side. Now they are optimising for equal outcome (i.e. this is by design) and for maximising viewers.

Geelong play us twice, but both play the crows and north twice.
Cats others are carlton and st kilda, hawks are GWS and Richmond. Broady similar on the whole. Geelongs was seen as easier (due to playing hawks twice)

 

[TheFourPillars]

We be bouncin...

 

[Mr Lizard]

 

[CHUBBSS]

Not to be a total buzzkill but I do think a lot of this streak has been a prolonged dead cat bounce once we were in a hopeless position. Part of the fun was us being the perceived bad team, knocking off perceived better teams. But it just kept going and going, and us not moving up the ladder for most of it only made it even more enjoyable.

Something funky has happened with the last two seasons where teams have come back from dead positions and teams with wins in the bank have gone off the edge of a cliff. This league was predictable for quite a while with "top 8 set after 6 rounds" sort of narrative having gone on the backburner now that we see wild swings in win-loss.

Changing from 22 to 23 H&A games can't have had THAT dramatic an effect so maybe it's a cumulative effect with less preseason and competitive games starting closer to summer than ever before. I feel like this Hawthorn run is part of a phenomenon we need more data to assess rather than something we specifically as a club are doing.

The list is still a fair way off. Have we had a single 'good' loss this season? I feel like there hasn't been a single game this season which was a loss to take something away from, they were all just largely bad and uncompetitive showings, and the once-in-a-decade Port disaster in its own category.

We are on the right track but I also think with the wrong fixture we're 0-4 or 1-5 next year and right back where we were this season.

This might be one of the stupidest post I’ve ever read on here in the last 10 years oh boy.

 

[KermitJagger]

Whenever anyone says our list isn't "good enough" yet I always wonder - compared to who? When I look across the league I don't see any list that stands head and shoulders above the rest. I guess they must be comparing it to the stronger sides of our past, in which case we'll probably never match up. Every club in 2024 has serious flaws.

The AFL's equalisation policy has largely worked. Every team is +/- a player or two, or a tweak in game plan away from being the best or worst team in the league, and +/- about 10% effort between a win or a loss any given game.

 

[Dipper]

Not to be a total buzzkill but I do think a lot of this streak has been a prolonged dead cat bounce once we were in a hopeless position. Part of the fun was us being the perceived bad team, knocking off perceived better teams. But it just kept going and going, and us not moving up the ladder for most of it only made it even more enjoyable.

Something funky has happened with the last two seasons where teams have come back from dead positions and teams with wins in the bank have gone off the edge of a cliff. This league was predictable for quite a while with "top 8 set after 6 rounds" sort of narrative having gone on the backburner now that we see wild swings in win-loss.

Changing from 22 to 23 H&A games can't have had THAT dramatic an effect so maybe it's a cumulative effect with less preseason and competitive games starting closer to summer than ever before. I feel like this Hawthorn run is part of a phenomenon we need more data to assess rather than something we specifically as a club are doing.

The list is still a fair way off. Have we had a single 'good' loss this season? I feel like there hasn't been a single game this season which was a loss to take something away from, they were all just largely bad and uncompetitive showings, and the once-in-a-decade Port disaster in its own category.

We are on the right track but I also think with the wrong fixture we're 0-4 or 1-5 next year and right back where we were this season.

Collingwood loss was a close hard fought game, Essendon was poor goal kicking. Even the first Geelong game we had a run on where we got in touching distance. Something could be taken out of all of those and Sammy himself took stuff out of the Sydney game. I think you're being a bit harsh.

 

[cryptor]

It's more of a dead cat hover based on the rate of W's

 

[KermitJagger]

It's more of a dead cat hover based on the rate of W's

Well the thing about the AFL is that the Cats seem to stay up

 

[TheFourPillars]

It's more of a dead cat hover based on the rate of W's

 

[peetoo]

A Fwd line which has been missing ‘first choice’ KPF Lewis and absorbed 4 new players has taken a while to get going?

And now they are really going

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Not to be a total buzzkill but I do think a lot of this streak has been a prolonged dead cat bounce once we were in a hopeless position. Part of the fun was us being the perceived bad team, knocking off perceived better teams. But it just kept going and going, and us not moving up the ladder for most of it only made it even more enjoyable.

Something funky has happened with the last two seasons where teams have come back from dead positions and teams with wins in the bank have gone off the edge of a cliff. This league was predictable for quite a while with "top 8 set after 6 rounds" sort of narrative having gone on the backburner now that we see wild swings in win-loss.

Changing from 22 to 23 H&A games can't have had THAT dramatic an effect so maybe it's a cumulative effect with less preseason and competitive games starting closer to summer than ever before. I feel like this Hawthorn run is part of a phenomenon we need more data to assess rather than something we specifically as a club are doing.

The list is still a fair way off. Have we had a single 'good' loss this season? I feel like there hasn't been a single game this season which was a loss to take something away from, they were all just largely bad and uncompetitive showings, and the once-in-a-decade Port disaster in its own category.

We are on the right track but I also think with the wrong fixture we're 0-4 or 1-5 next year and right back where we were this season.

The list is a fair way off. The starting 23 are not.
The issue is when we are missing a few it goes pear shaped

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Also did the coaching courses, not simply a favourite son.

Pretty sure those courses are mandatory now thanks to a certain campaigner from out near the airport playing pin cushion with teenagers.

 

[peetoo]

The list is a fair way off. The starting 23 are not.
The issue is when we are missing a few it goes pear shaped

Like a FB, a FF and key midfielder?