Coach Sam Mitchell's direction for the club and 2024 news

[Strapping Young Lad]

If anyone wants to have a listen about what the data is saying in regards to whether we have actually gotten worse this year have a listen to this from the 9:15 mark.

I know a few people have already touched on it, but the data is also showing that our results this year have been slightly better despite actually putting out a younger team and dealing with some injuries.




And here.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

What are we seeing? What’s the comparison?

Zac Butters type (start as a pressure forward, transition into a high impact mid)

 

[Judd2Sewell]

I said in April last year that the current backline will be better than our 12-16 backline and was laughed at, not backing down from this statement any time soon.

H00t Judd2Sewell Billyc

Burgoyne - Lake - Stratton
Hodge - Gibson - Birchall
+ Frawley

It's going to be good, no doubt. But it will never be better than that.

Further to that the only player in our current backline that would be guaranteed a game in our 3peat backline would be Sicily. Maybe you would include Hardwick too to move Burgoyne and Hodge into the middle fulltime.

 

[KermitJagger]

Burgoyne - Lake - Stratton
Hodge - Gibson - Birchall
+ Frawley

It's going to be good, no doubt. But it will never be better than that.

Further to that the only player in our current backline that would be guaranteed a game in our 3peat backline would be Sicily. Maybe you would include Hardwick too to move Burgoyne and Hodge into the middle fulltime.

Comparing full and storied careers to careers barely even halfway through is never going to benefit the player who is in their early to mid 20s. Every time this argument comes up it's pointless because you're always comparing these new guys to the idealised version of past players. We all remember Brent Guerra as a champion defender for the Hawks, but we forget that he was traded and then delisted by subsequent clubs. Just as an example. We remember all the fantastic kicks and game breaking moments, and forget the screw ups.

Another point is that Hodge and Burgoyne were nowhere close to full time defenders, particularly not at this point of their careers, so I don't necessarily think it's fair to add them. At least compare full time defenders to full time defenders.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Comparing full and storied careers to careers barely even halfway through is never going to benefit the player who is in their early to mid 20s. Every time this argument comes up it's pointless because you're always comparing these new guys to the idealised version of past players. We all remember Brent Guerra as a champion defender for the Hawks, but we forget that he was traded and then delisted by subsequent clubs. Just as an example. We remember all the fantastic kicks and game breaking moments, and forget the screw ups.

Another point is that Hodge and Burgoyne were nowhere close to full time defenders, particularly not at this point of their careers, so I don't necessarily think it's fair to add them. At least compare full time defenders to full time defenders.

Yeah fair point. In the biggest games during that era Hodge would spend significantly more time in the middle. Burgoyne would roll through there too. But for the majority of the season both he and Burgoyne spent the majority of the time in defence.

The players that were always in the backline (bar Frawley's moments at FF) were: Stratton, Lake, Gibson, Birchall, Frawley + Duryea, Suckling, Spangher, Guerra

If Frost, Sicily, Scrimshaw, Hardwick, DGB, CJ + Day, Impey, Morrison develop into a unit that's better than our 3peat core then we are laughing.

 

[toomanysquibs]

Comparing full and storied careers to careers barely even halfway through is never going to benefit the player who is in their early to mid 20s. Every time this argument comes up it's pointless because you're always comparing these new guys to the idealised version of past players. We all remember Brent Guerra as a champion defender for the Hawks, but we forget that he was traded and then delisted by subsequent clubs. Just as an example. We remember all the fantastic kicks and game breaking moments, and forget the screw ups.

Another point is that Hodge and Burgoyne were nowhere close to full time defenders, particularly not at this point of their careers, so I don't necessarily think it's fair to add them. At least compare full time defenders to full time defenders.

So true - particularly given the infancy of the current crop. Hodge for example wasn't impacting games heavily until around his fourth year in the league, and that was as a midfielder.

Day and Jiath at their best are borderline match winners in the back half now.

Great point on Goo too - he made some real howlers for us before evolving onto an absolute top level defender.

 

[FactsNotBS]

Sacrilege!



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Haha...dont get me wrong, I loved Lakey but Im loving Frost this year. Dont you think he has improved out of sight? We dont see those shocker turnovers anymore. Probably when he completely shut down Buddy last year is when I started to think he has gone to another level. The way he uses his body with the blocking rule interpretation of umps nowadays is outstanding. Haha Lakey today would be free kicked at every contest just about.

 

[KermitJagger]

Yeah fair point. In the biggest games during that era Hodge would spend significantly more time in the middle. Burgoyne would roll through there too. But for the majority of the season both he and Burgoyne spent the majority of the time in defence.

The players that were always in the backline (bar Frawley's moments at FF) were: Stratton, Lake, Gibson, Birchall, Frawley + Duryea, Suckling, Spangher, Guerra

If Frost, Sicily, Scrimshaw, Hardwick, DGB, CJ + Day, Impey, Morrison develop into a unit that's better than our 3peat core then we are laughing.

I think they're the one line that could be as good, problem is there'll never be another forward line as good as what we had through that era and the other problem is that we'll never have the flexibility of having guys like Hodge, Burgoyne, Roughy and co on the list - to your point. They spent time there because they could, they spent time forward because they could, they spent time in the middle because they could. Can only really see Will Day having the potential to do that for us.

 

[MinerBoy]

Haha...dont get me wrong, I loved Lakey but Im loving Frost this year. Dont you think he has improved out of sight? We dont see those shocker turnovers anymore. Probably when he completely shut down Buddy last year is when I started to think he has gone to another level. The way he uses his body with the blocking rule interpretation of umps nowadays is outstanding. Haha Lakey today would be free kicked at every contest just about.

Unlikely. Lake was more assured with following the flight of the ball and winning it outright, without concern for his opponents whereabouts. He just backed himself in to read and win the ball.

That's one of Frost's weakness in that he can panic and engage too much looking for his opponent.

Not trying to have a go at Frost, just that he's a long long way off Lake.

 

[KermitJagger]

Unlikely. Lake was more assured with following the flight of the ball and winning it outright, without concern for his opponents whereabouts. He just backed himself in to read and win the ball.

That's one of Frost's weakness in that he can panic and engage too much looking for his opponent.

Not trying to have a go at Frost, just that he's a long long way off Lake.

Frost is nowhere near the same role either. If he can finish off his career with the type of defensive work he's put out for us since coming across, he could be remembered as a better defender for us than Chip. Another thing to his advantage over Chip's is that he isn't missing large chunks of seasons injured as Chip did.

 

[MinerBoy]

Frost is nowhere near the same role either. If he can finish off his career with the type of defensive work he's put out for us since coming across, he could be remembered as a better defender for us than Chip. Another thing to his advantage over Chip's is that he isn't missing large chunks of seasons injured as Chip did.

I'm not sure he would to be honest.

Frawley criminally underrated. Gun FB IMO. Once again, that's nothing against Frost... but I feel sells Chip well short.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

I'm not sure he would to be honest.

Frawley criminally underrated. Gun FB IMO. Once again, that's nothing against Frost... but I feel sells Chip well short.

thats the point though

criminally underrated and remembered go together

Chip was very good from 15-19 though

 

[MinerBoy]

thats the point though

criminally underrated and remembered go together

Chip was very good from 15-19 though

At the peak of his powers he was one of the best in the league (and that was for a number of years as stated), yet we had our own supporters dropping him every week.

I find that criminally underrated.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

At the peak of his powers he was one of the best in the league (and that was for a number of years as stated), yet we had our own supporters dropping him every week.

I find that criminally underrated.

yeah i agree

what im saying is that when you're criminal underrated it tends to mean that you won't be remembered as being as good as u were by most

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

Expected scores had us winning by about 20 points from memory. Sam and co. would know where we actually are.

 

[KermitJagger]

I'm not sure he would to be honest.

Frawley criminally underrated. Gun FB IMO. Once again, that's nothing against Frost... but I feel sells Chip well short.

Not disagreeing with you, Frawley was underrated. His disposal in particular was criticized far more than it deserved.

That said, availability is important and Frawley spent significant chunks injured. We only got one full season out of him in 2016, otherwise he played 18, 8, 20, 18 and 14 games. Frost at 28 still has quite a few years of good footy ahead of him and his defensive work has only improved. Frosty's story hasn't finished being told yet.

 

[Brishawk]

At the peak of his powers he was one of the best in the league (and that was for a number of years as stated), yet we had our own supporters dropping him every week.

I find that criminally underrated.

Even worse that they wanted to drop him for brand

 

[Slainte]

I would love to see Moore spend more time in the middle. He is built like my staffy but with nice skills. He is tenacious as they come!

Agree Moore could be the man.

 

[MinerBoy]

Not disagreeing with you, Frawley was underrated. His disposal in particular was criticized far more than it deserved.

That said, availability is important and Frawley spent significant chunks injured. We only got one full season out of him in 2016, otherwise he played 18, 8, 20, 18 and 14 games. Frost at 28 still has quite a few years of good footy ahead of him and his defensive work has only improved. Frosty's story hasn't finished being told yet.

Not sure there’s much of an issue with 18, 20 and 18

Few seasons towards the end he certainly battled but those numbers I just quoted are fine


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[Tassie Cryptik]

Sam Mitchell and 2022 news.
How is any of this waffle relevant?

 

[FactsNotBS]

Comparing full and storied careers to careers barely even halfway through is never going to benefit the player who is in their early to mid 20s. Every time this argument comes up it's pointless because you're always comparing these new guys to the idealised version of past players. We all remember Brent Guerra as a champion defender for the Hawks, but we forget that he was traded and then delisted by subsequent clubs. Just as an example. We remember all the fantastic kicks and game breaking moments, and forget the screw ups.

Another point is that Hodge and Burgoyne were nowhere close to full time defenders, particularly not at this point of their careers, so I don't necessarily think it's fair to add them. At least compare full time defenders to full time defenders.

Spot on!


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[Ned Ryerson]

Sam Mitchell and 2022 news.
How is any of this waffle relevant?

They are making comparisons regarding our 2022 backline who are coached by Sam Mitchell.

 

[KermitJagger]

They are making comparisons regarding our 2022 backline who are coached by Sam Mitchell.

Not once has Nash been mentioned!!!!

 

[Pessimistic]

Burgoyne - Lake - Stratton
Hodge - Gibson - Birchall
+ Frawley

It's going to be good, no doubt. But it will never be better than that.

Further to that the only player in our current backline that would be guaranteed a game in our 3peat backline would be Sicily. Maybe you would include Hardwick too to move Burgoyne and Hodge into the middle fulltime.

72 pts average against over the last eight games including four top 4 teams from 2021 is the same as hawks 2015 - their best season in that regard
And the 2015 defence was protected by a more mature midfield

 

[MinerBoy]

72 pts average against over the last eight games including four top 4 teams from 2021 is the same as hawks 2015 - their best season in that regard
And the 2015 defence was protected by a more mature midfield

Could be read as "exposed by a more attacking...."

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Not once has Nash been mentioned!!!!