Coach Sam Mitchell's direction for the club and 2024 news

[Strapping Young Lad]

If anyone wants to have a listen about what the data is saying in regards to whether we have actually gotten worse this year have a listen to this from the 9:15 mark.

I know a few people have already touched on it, but the data is also showing that our results this year have been slightly better despite actually putting out a younger team and dealing with some injuries.




And here.

 

[CHUBBSS]

Derms just taken one example to try make his point, and which is wrong but the second part is right - so much defence meant our forward line was always at the mercy of clubs team defence cause we moved the ball to limit scoring, onwards and upwards now

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I don't think Clarko struggled in developing forwards - I think he struggled developing a gameplan that was able to get our forwards meaningful delivery. The turnaround in our delivery inside 50 this season has been such a relief.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Context is required here.
1. Gunston career best year under Clarko after 2015.
2. Kosi breakout year under Clarko in 2021. Still young.
3. Moore breakout season under Clarko in 2021. Still young.
4. Lewis picked from obscurity and showed file good attributes but was hampered by injury.
5. Three other forwards who have occupied the forward line post 2015 were roughy, wingard and Breust. Breust is obviously still playing well but hard to better his premiership year form as a small forward. Wingard has been up and down in line with injury. And roughy obviously towards the end of his career but largely got the job done prior to his last season.

So there have been forwards who got better post 2015 or were recruited after then and started to play senior footy or even play very good senior footy under Clarko. And soem that hand injuries and ones like tob that just didn’t make it but that probably isn’t a development issue. So it was a lazy statement to create a simple narrative that is easily undermined by easily observable facts.

1) Gunton was already a star forward.

And, based on the stats/facts, his two career best seasons were in 2014 and 2015.

2014:

• 16.1 possies (4th highest)
• 6 marks (equal 2nd highest)
• 2.5 goals (highest)
• score involvement stats not kept circa 2015

2015:

• 16.5 possies (3rd highest)
• 7.5 marks (highest)
• 2.4 goals (2nd highest)
• 8.1 score involvements (highest)

The seasons he averaged more touches were due to him spending time in our backline. The good old days of having our best forward play HBF.

2) Kosi was delist-bait. Thankfully someone else suggested that he should be trialled as a forward during the pre-season. He obviously ended up finding his niche and it saved his career in the short term.

Can't argue that he didn't improve, but it was not his idea to play him there in the first place. I think body issues also held him back too which is something to consider.

3) Moore has improved into a gun HFF. No question. From being lucky to survive the cull, thanks to a final game chance, to becoming one of the best HFF's in the league is a big turnaround. Can only be thankful Clarko and co. gave him that last chance and played him early last season.

4) I think it was just a matter of time with Lewis due to body issues and a lack of conditioning. I think if he was right over the last two seasons we'd have seen more glimpses. He's taken a much bigger step this season, which I felt was inevitable with him.

5) Wingard has played best as a midfielder for us, and he looked decidedly lost playing in our forward line under Clarko. This has been an obvious complaint of so many posters on here - he is so much better as a forward in a fast attacking side (Port 2014, etc). He had no chance to succeed in our slow moving game plan.

Even this season he's kicked 4 goals with 11 kicks. That's with him clearly looking rusty as he's doing his pre-season out on the field.

No point talking about Roughie. Clarko got the best out of the champ, but he's irrelevant to this discussion. Breust is all class, but again is irrelevant. Both were established star forwards prior to 2015.

Granted there hasn't been too many openings with Gunston, Breust, Roughy, Rioli and Wingard all spending varying degrees of time there. All things considered though there has been one player that's improved into a certified quality forward post 2015 - Moore. And two KPF's that have improved, both in part to getting their bodies right.

 

[Brishawk]

1) Gunton was already a star forward.

And, based on the stats/facts, his two career best seasons were in 2014 and 2015.

2014:

• 16.1 possies (4th highest)
• 6 marks (equal 2nd highest)
• 2.5 goals (highest)
• score involvement stats not kept circa 2015

2015:

• 16.5 possies (3rd highest)
• 7.5 marks (highest)
• 2.4 goals (2nd highest)
• 8.1 score involvements (highest)

The seasons he averaged more touches were due to him spending time in our backline. The good old days of having our best forward play HBF.

2) Kosi was delist-bait. Thankfully someone else suggested that he should be trialled as a forward during the pre-season. He obviously ended up finding his niche and it saved his career in the short term.

Can't argue that he didn't improve, but it was not his idea to play him there in the first place. I think body issues also held him back too which is something to consider.

3) Moore has improved into a gun HFF. No question. From being lucky to survive the cull, thanks to a final game chance, to becoming one of the best HFF's in the league is a big turnaround. Can only be thankful Clarko and co. gave him that last chance and played him early last season.

4) I think it was just a matter of time with Lewis due to body issues and a lack of conditioning. I think if he was right over the last two seasons we'd have seen more glimpses. He's taken a much bigger step this season, which I felt was inevitable with him.

5) Wingard has played best as a midfielder for us, and he looked decidedly lost playing in our forward line under Clarko. This has been an obvious complaint of so many posters on here - he is so much better as a forward in a fast attacking side (Port 2014, etc). He had no chance to succeed in our slow moving game plan.

Even this season he's kicked 4 goals with 11 kicks. That's with him clearly looking rusty as he's doing his pre-season out on the field.

No point talking about Roughie. Clarko got the best out of the champ, but he's irrelevant to this discussion. Breust is all class, but again is irrelevant. Both were established star forwards prior to 2015.

Granted there hasn't been too many openings with Gunston, Breust, Roughy, Rioli and Wingard all spending varying degrees of time there. All things considered though there has been one player that's improved into a certified quality forward post 2015 - Moore. And two KPF's that have improved, both in part to getting their bodies right.

Dermis claim was he couldn’t think of one forward that had improved. Kosi, Moore and Gunston is three. Gunston winning a bnf is a lot better than any previous result. I agree, Lewis would have improved if not for injury. It is manifestly false that no forward improved. That is what I was highlighting. If you start off with a false premise then what else matters about what is said?

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Big props so far in 2022 for Sam's coaching performance

He has not only fashioned a gamestyle that is attractive to watch and plays to the strengths of our list but he has shown an ability to adjust mid game and make some bold moves (a rare skill in coaches in this day and age)

Big test to get the boys back up and about for next week for a very winnable game!

 

[Denver Day Lewis]

Today highlighted just how much we over invested in T. Mitchell, O'Meara and Wingard. While I like them as players and they come across as fine individuals, I think the previous recruiting staff invested too much in them, perhaps because of emotion, or a misreading of the state of our list. Had we invested in youthful midfielders sooner, and kept some experience around to guide them through, we would have very different looking results now.

It's not dissimilar to the way Clarko viewed Buddy on the field. A liability when we focussed too much attention on him going forward. Hence the full-court zone defence and the use of utilities like Gunston who could adapt to multiple positions. If you over invest in one position, you'll expose a weakness in the other part of the ground. Put in more cliched terms, "Your best team is only as good as your worst player." "And a champion team beats a team of champions" etc.

If only Clarko and Wright had managed the list and recruited in the same way he developed his on-field strategy and tactics.

 

[flinchfree]

Today highlighted just how much we over invested in T. Mitchell, O'Meara and Wingard. While I like them as players and they come across as fine individuals, I think the previous recruiting staff invested too much in them, perhaps because of emotion, or a misreading of the state of our list. Had we invested in youthful midfielders sooner, and kept some experience around to guide them through, we would have very different looking results now.

It's not dissimilar to the way Clarko viewed Buddy on the field. A liability when we focussed too much attention on him going forward. Hence the full-court zone defence and the use of utilities like Gunston who could adapt to multiple positions. If you over invest in one position, you'll expose a weakness in the other part of the ground. Put in more cliched terms, "Your best team is only as good as your worst player." "And a champion team beats a team of champions" etc.

If only Clarko and Wright had managed the list and recruited in the same way he developed his on-field strategy and tactics.

Jaeger was 22 not yet 23 when he joined us.
Mitchell was 23 not yet 24 when he joined us.
Wingard was 25 not yet 26 when he joined us.

Problem has been not that they weren't youthful, but that both JOM and Wings have been injured far too often to repay the investment in them.

 

[Denver Day Lewis]

Jaeger was 22 not yet 23 when he joined us.
Mitchell was 23 not yet 24 when he joined us.
Wingard was 25 not yet 26 when he joined us.

Problem has been not that they weren't youthful, but that both JOM and Wings have been injured far too often to repay the investment in them.

Not an argument that they were too old, certainly. And not an argument that they shouldn't have been drafted. Just that we paid too much for them, as many have argued, restricting opportunities for others to be drafted. That is compounded by the injuries (which are partly bad luck, and also partly damaged goods – caveat emptor.)

Edit: I should add that I'm looking forward to seeing if S. Mitchell can get different output from them, whether by motivation, by adaptation, or by giving them different roles on field. But whether or not we trade any of them, or keep all of them, I would argue that in the wash-up we won't have seen a return which justifies the investment (draft picks-wise, I'm not privy to how much they're paid) even taking into account the vagaries of drafting and recruiting.

 

[theiaofseed]

Great press conference from Sam, fronted up and didn't shy away to what would've been some really hard questioning.

 

[hardway]

Great press conference from Sam, fronted up and didn't shy away to what would've been some really hard questioning.

Class act. We are in the best hands.

 

[SSSSSS]

It's nice that we actually have a plan B/C/D now rather than just relying on some patches of individual brilliance from a few senior players.

 

[Brant]

Not an argument that they were too old, certainly. And not an argument that they shouldn't have been drafted. Just that we paid too much for them, as many have argued, restricting opportunities for others to be drafted. That is compounded by the injuries (which are partly bad luck, and also partly damaged goods – caveat emptor.)

Edit: I should add that I'm looking forward to seeing if S. Mitchell can get different output from them, whether by motivation, by adaptation, or by giving them different roles on field. But whether or not we trade any of them, or keep all of them, I would argue that in the wash-up we won't have seen a return which justifies the investment (draft picks-wise, I'm not privy to how much they're paid) even taking into account the vagaries of drafting and recruiting.

You can't really believe that Pick 14 was paying too much for what we've got from Tom Mitchell?

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

The only benefit from looking at our past is to improve on it in the now and future.

I am looking forward to the mid season draft and national draft in 2022.

One more clean out and our list will be pretty close Sam wishes.

I think we may look at a ruck in the mid season draft.

 

[Denver Day Lewis]

You can't really believe that Pick 14 was paying too much for what we've got from Tom Mitchell?

Taken in isolation, at the time it was absolutely not too much, versus a speculative draft pick at 14, you're right. Put differently (and I'm not the first to say it) the overall strategy of buying in experienced midfielders, combined with the talent we did get from the draft (Worpel and others), hasn't resulted in a functional midfield, let alone a good one. If you focussed on O'Meara, however, the case is easier to make.

My point was not to single out any one player or trade, though. Each individual player has great value in their own way, it simply hasn't gelled together in a productive way. Hence my argument that the trade and draft moves have not represented a good investment, with 20/20 hindsight.

I also intended to say that I hope S. Mitchell is able to find new ways to get value from them and adapt our midfield and centre bounce tactics to this new post-Clark era. Too often we've allowed 5 to 10 goal onslaughts stemming from weakness at the centre bounce, and I really want to see that change, especially after today.

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

Taken in isolation, at the time it was absolutely not too much, versus a speculative draft pick at 14, you're right. Put differently (and I'm not the first to say it) the overall strategy of buying in experienced midfielders, combined with the talent we did get from the draft (Worpel and others), hasn't resulted in a functional midfield, let alone a good one. If you focussed on O'Meara, however, the case is easier to make.

My point was not to single out any one player or trade, though. Each individual player has great value in their own way, it simply hasn't gelled together in a productive way. Hence my argument that the trade and draft moves have not represented a good investment, with 20/20 hindsight.

I also intended to say that I hope S. Mitchell is able to find new ways to get value from them and adapt our midfield and centre bounce tactics to this new post-Clark era. Too often we've allowed 5 to 10 goal onslaughts stemming from weakness at the centre bounce, and I really want to see that change, especially after today.

We paid overs for Wingard and O'Meara.

 

[MrPremiership]

Are we a counter-attacking side?

Do we realise we are most likely going to lose clearances, so set up is to win the ball back and then move quickly up forward?

Got to say, we're exciting to watch

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

Are we a counter-attacking side?

Do we realise we are most likely going to lose clearances, so set up is to win the ball back and then move quickly up forward?

Got to say, we're exciting to watch

We are at the second as Sam Mitchell has advised he is working to our strengths.

Sam has also stated though were working on our centre clearances and around the ground ruck work.

Winning between the arc alone is not substainable alone for dominate football.

 

[H00t]

Are we a counter-attacking side?

Do we realise we are most likely going to lose clearances, so set up is to win the ball back and then move quickly up forward?

Got to say, we're exciting to watch

I don’t think the plan is to be a purely counter-attacking side. We are currently forced to be one though as we can’t win a clearance. I think we are only seeing half the game-plan as I feel Mitchell will have a plan for when we are winning clearances.

We start winning clearances and we will be starting our attacks further up the ground. Will put less pressure on our defence. Plus it will give our forwards more looks at the ball given we’ve lost the inside 50 count every game.

Mitchell has said he wants goals. Attacking every chance we get appears to be the goal. And I’m here for it.

 

[Mercy Seat]

Taken in isolation, at the time it was absolutely not too much, versus a speculative draft pick at 14, you're right. Put differently (and I'm not the first to say it) the overall strategy of buying in experienced midfielders, combined with the talent we did get from the draft (Worpel and others), hasn't resulted in a functional midfield, let alone a good one. If you focussed on O'Meara, however, the case is easier to make.

My point was not to single out any one player or trade, though. Each individual player has great value in their own way, it simply hasn't gelled together in a productive way. Hence my argument that the trade and draft moves have not represented a good investment, with 20/20 hindsight.

I also intended to say that I hope S. Mitchell is able to find new ways to get value from them and adapt our midfield and centre bounce tactics to this new post-Clark era. Too often we've allowed 5 to 10 goal onslaughts stemming from weakness at the centre bounce, and I really want to see that change, especially after today.

We all know this. Club took a calculated risk and it didn’t pay off. With some luck, Cyril not retiring, Rough not getting cancer, some Free agents we thought were a lock not falling through, some long term injuries not occurring, JOM turning into the player we thought he could, etc we might have looked like absolute geniuses. But it didn’t work out.

All I can say is, lesson learned, and it’s exciting to see what we’ve been able to turn a thin amount of early draft picks, late picks and rookies into these last couple of years.

 

[cryptor]

Are we a counter-attacking side?

Do we realise we are most likely going to lose clearances, so set up is to win the ball back and then move quickly up forward?

Got to say, we're exciting to watch

I guess we are. But I've also been thinking of us working within an effort focused system. The effort to not give up a chase, to run hard forward/back, to man a mark, close space, hit a contest, block for a teammate, put your body in the way of an opponent, reach out with a hand to slap the ball, etc. None of that takes talent. That's all effort.

 

[theiaofseed]

Fun fact we've won 9 of the 12 quarters so far.

 

[cryptor]

Fun fact we've won 9 of the 12 quarters so far.

HAW 4.9.33 _ 10.7.67 _ 12.4.76 _ 13.5.83
OPP 9.9.63 _ 8.13.61 _ 6.5.41 _ 3.8.26

Total scores for and against for each quarter (mental math, maybe mistakes).

If you consider our 2 pre-season games also I think the takeaway is that as long as we don't allow the opposition to get out to too big a lead in the first quarter we will wear down and out last teams.

 

[Brishawk]

You can't really believe that Pick 14 was paying too much for what we've got from Tom Mitchell?

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Are we a counter-attacking side?

Do we realise we are most likely going to lose clearances, so set up is to win the ball back and then move quickly up forward?

Got to say, we're exciting to watch

Currently we play like one as our midfield has not been able to match it against Port and Carlton in particular.

With the 6/6/6 rule it's impossible now to set-up with the idea that you'll be losing the clearances.

The way we are playing is partly due to Mitchell allowing the players to play with some freedom, and partly due to the personnel (all our defenders are good on the rebound). They've been given the licence to play to their strengths.

IMO once the midfield issues are resolved then we will be a much better team. No doubt Mitchell realises this and is pumping games into Ward, Newcombe, Nash, MacDonald and Maginess.

Unfortunately the latter three are playing mostly in other roles, Nash by necessity, but for MacDonald and Maginess the experience is still surely extremely valuable. But once it clicks then the backline will still be able to do what it's been doing, it just won't have to do it as often.

 

[TazHawk15]

As a 40+ year member I could not possibly be more impressed with Sammy and the way he is going about things.