Coach Sam Mitchell's direction for the club and 2024 news

[Strapping Young Lad]

If anyone wants to have a listen about what the data is saying in regards to whether we have actually gotten worse this year have a listen to this from the 9:15 mark.

I know a few people have already touched on it, but the data is also showing that our results this year have been slightly better despite actually putting out a younger team and dealing with some injuries.




And here.

 

[DogDaySonny]

Extra handballs are to allow the forwards time to lead. The last few weeks we have stopped the long kick inside 50 to a contest, instead giving them time to spread.

It has worked a few times, and looks amazing. If it doesn't work it's creating 1 on 1 or 2 on 2 contests. Once we get crumbers, watch the fear in opposition start

Hmm… the forward line has struggled because the ball was coming from back to front too quickly? That’s an interesting idea that I could get behind.

 

[HedgeFund]

We currently have a very healthy list, and it’s been that way all season, and yet we sit 16th with 4 wins and 9 losses and a percentage of 78.5%.

I expect we will win 3/4 of our last 10. Which would see us finish with 7/8 wins and probably a percentage around 80.

To make finals you need to be 12 wins minimum and probably 105 - 100%

I can’t see us improving that much in 2024, unless we have another very good run with injuries.

Far more realistic to aim for 10 wins next year and hopefully 13 in 2025.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Hmm… the forward line has struggled because the ball was coming from back to front too quickly? That’s an interesting idea that I could get behind.

It does sound silly, but our forwards have been very reactive for a few years. The last few weeks, the delay of forward entries has given them time to lead

 

[KermitJagger]

We’ve got two weaknesses in particular that we’ll have to work on to be a contender.

The first is that our forward line is hit and miss. If it runs hot, we’re in a game. If it’s not, we’re wasting far too many opportunities. That being said, the last two weeks are the first time that I found myself thinking that delivery was more of an issue than presentation. It appears that the forwards are starting to create space and provide opportunities. The mids will have better targets that they need to kick to the advantage of if we continue on this good path.

The second is that we are so daring when moving the ball forward that we’re caught out on turnovers and killed by disciplined, high-pressure teams. A bit of skill improvement under pressure and some changes to structure are the cure, I think, but it’s got to improve. Against Port they just tore us up with pressure and quick rebounds off the resulting turnover. Brisbane didn’t pressure as hard and our boys did very well. Still, to be a contender we need this to improve.

I think that the way we’re playing now puts us at the upper side of middle of the ladder. I take hope in the fact that we’re hitting this form before the bye, rather than in the last six games of the season during garbage time. We’re playing well against teams that need to win. It’s a very reassuring sign.

The second weakness you've listed I don't really see as a weakness. It's just part of the battle to be consistent. Port Adelaide came out against us and played finals level intensity from a pressure point of view, and it wasn't necessarily the game plan which failed at that point it was just the fact that over 50% of our team have played less than 50 games and we were a whole year younger on average. We hardly got our hands on the ball to commit turnovers because we were dominated in the centre which has been our one-wood the entire season.

It would be a massive knee jerk reaction to see this as something we need to change up, because we're still working on embedding the game plan and figuring out what our best 22 is going to look like. It's important to remember that most of our players in most positions have spent less than a year playing continuous AFL football alongside each other. The ruck set up, the midfield set up, the forward line set up are all radically different from 2022 let alone 2021. Give it time.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

We currently have a very healthy list, and it’s been that way all season, and yet we sit 16th with 4 wins and 9 losses and a percentage of 78.5%.

I expect we will win 3/4 of our last 10. Which would see us finish with 7/8 wins and probably a percentage around 80.

To make finals you need to be 12 wins minimum and probably 105 - 100%

I can’t see us improving that much in 2024, unless we have another very good run with injuries.

Far more realistic to aim for 10 wins next year and hopefully 13 in 2025.

This is also a good point, Mitch Lewis aside we've had a pretty gravy run with injury this season.

Your aim is also what I think is realistic, anything more than that and we've done insanely well.

 

[KermitJagger]

We currently have a very healthy list, and it’s been that way all season, and yet we sit 16th with 4 wins and 9 losses and a percentage of 78.5%.

I expect we will win 3/4 of our last 10. Which would see us finish with 7/8 wins and probably a percentage around 80.

To make finals you need to be 12 wins minimum and probably 105 - 100%

I can’t see us improving that much in 2024, unless we have another very good run with injuries.

Far more realistic to aim for 10 wins next year and hopefully 13 in 2025.

When's the last time a club got better in 3 game increments year on year?

 

[burner1]

We’ve been noticeably increasing our hand balling through the middle (the media having repeat coronaries over this) and maybe that’s a way to deal with the pressure. It’s better to be fast and accurate than long. Still, against the most disciplined sides this increases the pressure we feel and it’s a couple more touches to break a defence open. I think this is more a tactical choice by the coaches to keep the team moving and daring with the ball. I think we’ll start moving it more by foot again next year (or against teams we think we can beat that way this year). Skills and positioning take a lot of practice and experience to get consistent and elite, after all.

I reckon the handballing is part of a deliberate long term strategy. We have a large number of elite runners (and a growing number of quick players and elite inside 50 kicks) and look to run in waves like a lot of the successful teams do.

But more importantly we seem to be focusing on quality of ball inside 50. The good teams are great at dealing with the highball into forward 50. We appear to have decided the extra 1-3 handballs and then targeting a lead with 30-40m kick is worth the risk vs a long dump kick that mostly get intercepted.

Now maybe it will not stand up to finals type pressure - but that’s a while away. Our skill level today (as shown via port) also isn’t good enough but should improve. I note teams like Richmond and dees at their best were very good at moving ball by hand under pressure so there’s a standard we can conceivably reach.

 

[cryptor]

Looking at the ladder and recent results over the past month...

I could see us top 6 next year.

 

[KermitJagger]

Looking at the ladder and recent results over the past month...

I could see us top 6 next year.

Potentially, I think there are heaps of scenarios more likely than an incremental build to 13 odd wins. Good chance we get there next year, might even stumble a bit the year after. The AFL is a league of rapid rises, steep falls and fluctuations.

 

[stevehawkington]

Still need another option when Lewis is out.

I still don't trust his body

same with Sicily, but I don't trust the MRP

 

[matey]

As Day said today Sam has not put a time limit on when we play finals again. Sam has also said on a number of occasions that improvement is not linear.

It’s just great to see us get to a stage for such a young list that ‘on our day if we turn up to play we can beat the top teams’. Hopefully we don’t have to wait long until we consistently turn up to play every week and on our bad days we are still competitive!

 

[KermitJagger]

As Day said today Sam has not put a time limit on when we play finals again. Sam has also said on a number of occasions that improvement is not linear.

It’s just great to see us get to a stage for such a young list that ‘on our day if we turn up to play we can beat the top teams’. Hopefully we don’t have to wait long until we consistently turn up to play every week and on our bad days we are still competitive!

It's not just that Sam says it either, it's pretty much a rule with anything - improvement is nowhere near linear, particularly where so many things (injury, other teams, rule changes etc) are outside of your own control.

I'm pretty sure everyone has had moments with learning something, or trying to work on a skill, where everything seems like a massive struggle until one day it just clicks and the skill feels natural. Going to the gym and trying to hit a goal weight lifted, playing a specific song on an instrument and so on. Footy is no different. If the things outside of our control remain steady, the point at which it all clicks and becomes second nature for us could be very soon.

 

[DogDaySonny]

The second weakness you've listed I don't really see as a weakness. It's just part of the battle to be consistent. Port Adelaide came out against us and played finals level intensity from a pressure point of view, and it wasn't necessarily the game plan which failed at that point it was just the fact that over 50% of our team have played less than 50 games and we were a whole year younger on average. We hardly got our hands on the ball to commit turnovers because we were dominated in the centre which has been our one-wood the entire season.

It would be a massive knee jerk reaction to see this as something we need to change up, because we're still working on embedding the game plan and figuring out what our best 22 is going to look like. It's important to remember that most of our players in most positions have spent less than a year playing continuous AFL football alongside each other. The ruck set up, the midfield set up, the forward line set up are all radically different from 2022 let alone 2021. Give it time.

I’m on board with your ideas. I don’t want to knee jerk anything and I certainly don’t want to tone down the daring. I’m simply observing that our skill errors go up (not a surprise) when the high pressure teams bring the heat. As the players get more experienced, stronger, more skilled, then they will deal with that pressure better.

I do think we are too often caught out of position on a turnover. It seems that everyone is moving forward too close to the same running lane perhaps (I really haven’t studied it so I’m just kind of surmising) and the turnover leaves too much space for a counter attack. Maybe the back line can spread into a zone quicker to be better positioned in the event of a turnover upfield? I’m not sure, but they come back with pace and pretty easily too often so there’s a bit of work to be done there, I think.

 

[KermitJagger]

I’m on board with your ideas. I don’t want to knee jerk anything and I certainly don’t want to tone down the daring. I’m simply observing that our skill errors go up (not a surprise) when the high pressure teams bring the heat. As the players get more experienced, stronger, more skilled, then they will deal with that pressure better.

I do think we are too often caught out of position on a turnover. It seems that everyone is moving forward too close to the same running lane perhaps (I really haven’t studied it so I’m just kind of surmising) and the turnover leaves too much space for a counter attack. Maybe the back line can spread into a zone quicker to be better positioned in the event of a turnover upfield? I’m not sure, but they come back with pace and pretty easily too often so there’s a bit of work to be done there, I think.

You can't have your cake and eat it, attacking quickly is always going to have a risk attached to it. Everyone needs to work hard in attack to make this style of play work, or you end up with players running into a congested area filled with opposition players and no options. The idea is that as the players become more familiar with each other then the pressure driven turnovers will become less common.

Even when we were winning flags between 2012 - 2015 our aggressive field positioning led to a lot of frustratingly quick scores against us, we were just great at wrestling back control and scoring ourselves.

 

[DogDaySonny]

You can't have your cake and eat it, attacking quickly is always going to have a risk attached to it. Everyone needs to work hard in attack to make this style of play work, or you end up with players running into a congested area filled with opposition players and no options. The idea is that as the players become more familiar with each other then the pressure driven turnovers will become less common.

Even when we were winning flags between 2012 - 2015 our aggressive field positioning led to a lot of frustratingly quick scores against us, we were just great at wrestling back control and scoring ourselves.

I remember a little differently, especially after Lake arrived. He bullied the FF and Gibbo was free to float and block play from wherever it was coming. Everyone else always seems to be standing in a lane before the opposition was trying. In ‘14 and ‘15 especially, our defence was unfairly solid. They zoned and double-teamed spectacularly well.

I don’t think that I’m trying to have my cake while eating it as well if I think there is opportunity to both reduce the number of turnovers and have the back six better positioned to address turnovers when they happen. The whole squad is young. Everyone will develop.

 

[KermitJagger]

I remember a little differently, especially after Lake arrived. He bullied the FF and Gibbo was free to float and block play from wherever it was coming. Everyone else always seems to be standing in a lane before the opposition was trying. In ‘14 and ‘15 especially, our defence was unfairly solid. They zoned and double-teamed spectacularly well.

I don’t think that I’m trying to have my cake while eating it as well if I think there is opportunity to both reduce the number of turnovers and have the back six better positioned to address turnovers when they happen. The whole squad is young. Everyone will develop.

I'm not saying that we got scored against heavily, but the scores we did tend to concede were on the rebound and felt "easy". Across 2013 - 2015 we were bottom 6 for conceding marks to the opposition per I50 but also amongst the best club at limiting contested marks for opposition across those years, so it stands to reason.

 

[hfc70]

I'm not prepared to say we will make the Grand Final next year.

Lets just wait and see how we go in the Prelim.

 

[cryptor]

I'm not prepared to say we will make the Grand Final next year.

Lets just wait and see how we go in the Prelim.

Bloody pessimists!

 

[crazywildhorse]

This is also a good point, Mitch Lewis aside we've had a pretty gravy run with injury this season.

Your aim is also what I think is realistic, anything more than that and we've done insanely well.

Mitch Lewis is the side atm. Doesn’t really matter who else plays. Lots of competition for most other spots.

 

[parsons nose]

Box Hill are probably the greatest asset the club has. Box Hill has always been a fantastic incubator of talent for the club. And more importantly a great learning institution for the younger players so that when they do get the call up the transition is relatively smooth.

 

[Philhawk]

Box Hill are probably the greatest asset the club has. Box Hill has always been a fantastic incubator of talent for the club. And more importantly a great learning institution for the younger players so that when they do get the call up the transition is relatively smooth.

Couldn't agree more.

Sam is a seriously special coach. You can tell it already. That said, I'd love to make sure we absolutely invest in his development. Whether that's the hiring of an expanded football staff to help him out, or further learning possibilities - it's going to be so crucial for him.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Box Hill are probably the greatest asset the club has. Box Hill has always been a fantastic incubator of talent for the club. And more importantly a great learning institution for the younger players so that when they do get the call up the transition is relatively smooth.

It works well for 2 reasons.
1. There wasn't really a strong history at box Hill before the hawks. They were easy beats, so it allowed a proper alignment, not a power struggle

2. Hawks have actually treated box Hill with respect. There hasn't been an effort to make them hawthorn junior. They still have full control of how the team operates etc.

 

[UAWM]

We're going really well.. if we had won both games against GWS and Adelaide all of a sudden we're pushing finals with Suns, Freo & Geelong

 

[Crankyhawk]

Yeah for sure, I find it frustrating that fans opt to do that too. I don't like that we do have a bit of a fair-weather fan base especially when the chance to get to games is fairly few and far between.

I missed the game due to work. But I was there for the saints game where I was expecting to get done..

 

[The Chad and I]

I like the confidence in the younger cohort: MacDonald, Butler, Weddle, Brockman, Newcombe, MacKenzie, Ward...they are not the types to "wait their turn".
They're gonna take what they want as soon as they can. Strong personalities who want to win. And we've got a few more of those at BH.