Sandilands Vs. Cox + their place in history

[Falchoon]

Cox is revered for his around the ground coverage.

IMHO too much of this is done behind the ball as a linkman and not enough of it in front of the ball as a target that may concern the opposition.

 

[worstfold]

Cox is revered for his around the ground coverage.

IMHO too much of this is done behind the ball as a linkman and not enough of it in front of the ball as a target that may concern the opposition.

ding ding ding we have a winner

 

[GordonGecko]

Claiming that Sandliands is the most influential player in the competition does not qualify as Sandilands being mentioned as the most influential player in the competition.

There is no ruckman capable of going toe to toe with Sandilands an entire game.

At best, clubs hope to break even with Sandilands.

He dominates his position, he smashes the competition at ground level, he also happens to win the hitouts.

If he were to go forward he would dominate there as well.

 

[Scotland]

ding ding ding we have a winner

As opposed to Sandilands who doesn't provide an extra link or a forward target?

Cox's record going forward is vastly superior to Sandilands'.

 

[im_a_lazy_sod]

Adelaide had to result in eye-gouging to take him out of the contest - he's the most valuable player in the competition in terms of the impact for his team

Also: Cox averages .51 goals a game and Sandilands averages .38 goals per game so not a huge difference

 

[Scotland]

There is no ruckman capable of going toe to toe with Sandilands an entire game.

At best, clubs hope to break even with Sandilands.

He dominates his position, he smashes the competition at ground level, he also happens to win the hitouts.

If he were to go forward he would dominate there as well.

You are correct, he does win a lot of hitouts...

 

[GordonGecko]

You are correct, he does win a lot of hitouts...

Until his injury he had more clearances than Dane Swan.

 

[fddf]

In history - Neither comparable to Madden, Polly Farmer etc

In modern times, Cox has had the better the career and has been better for longer but Sandi has gone past him in recent times, even with Cox having a great 2011.

So my answer is: Career - Cox. Right now - Sandi

 

[WCE_phil]

Sandi's peak, Cox's career.

What having cox does though is means you can play 2 fulltime ruckmen with no detriment to the side even in this current modern age of subs. He's averaging 20 disposals, 30 hitouts, 6 marks, 2 scoring shots and 3 inside fifties a game. If he continues in this form he'll finish the season with 700 odd hitouts, 450+ possessions, 130 marks, 25 goals and 10+ goal assists for the season. Take the hitouts out and you'd consider that an exceptional return from a forward flanker or even a good return for a 4-6th midfielder. He's also equal ninth for contested marks this season.

Cox isn't anywhere near the best tap ruckman in history and isn't even the best tap ruckman now. But in a team that has another ruckman getting 20 hitouts a game as well for him to be able to average 30 hitouts plus all his other stats is amazing.

 

[Jack2Johnston]

Would take Sandi in a heart beat, especially with the current forward press tactic throughout the league. A ruckman who can take a contested pack mark like Sandi is invaluable.

Cox more athletic and gets allot of the ball, however its usually across the half back line being a linking player.


Neither is the "best ever" and both will be remembered as great ruckmen.

 

[Scotland]

Some of the reasoning for Sandi allegedly being streets ahead of Cox is pretty flimsy. Sandi is a good pack mark? Cox gets most of his touches across half back? You'd build a more compelling case simply saying 211cm is taller than 204, therefore Sandi is better.

What having cox does though is means you can play 2 fulltime ruckmen with no detriment to the side even in this current modern age of subs. He's averaging 20 disposals, 30 hitouts, 6 marks, 2 scoring shots and 3 inside fifties a game. If he continues in this form he'll finish the season with 700 odd hitouts, 450+ possessions, 130 marks, 25 goals and 10+ goal assists for the season. Take the hitouts out and you'd consider that an exceptional return from a forward flanker or even a good return for a 4-6th midfielder. He's also equal ninth for contested marks this season.

This is getting close to the mark.

If you gauge Cox vs Sandi on ruck work alone there is no giant gulf between them. People get hung up on the fact that Sandilands wins so many hitouts, but he spends more time in the ruck than Cox, and some of Cox's tap work is pretty special. Sandi's 'ruck dominance' over Cox is grossly overstated.

When playing in the ruck Cox is effectively an extra midfielder. He runs all day and covers a lot of ground, and uses the ball well. On top of that he has the tools you'd expect from a big ruckman in that he can plonk himself in defence and mark opposition kicks, and he can go forward where he takes marks and converts his chances.

 

[Falchoon]

When playing in the ruck Cox is effectively an extra midfielder.

Effectively an extra half back.

He runs all day and covers a lot of ground, and uses the ball well. On top of that he has the tools you'd expect from a big ruckman in that he can plonk himself in defence and mark opposition kicks, and he can go forward where he takes marks and converts his chances.

Should be a player who can go forward and convert his chances. 61 goals in the last 6 seasons is terrible.

 

[wce4premiership]

Wasn't really wanting an eagles vs. dockers argument.

As for sandilands brother that somebody mentioned, how old and any good?


ps: to cox's credit he was labelled "prototype" by many and influenced a lot of younger ruckman and their around the ground play.

 

[kid_a]

Effectively an extra half back.



Should be a player who can go forward and convert his chances. 61 goals in the last 6 seasons is terrible.

oh please have a cry mate, just because you go for a side that doesn't even have a real ruckman. I can handle criticism of some players in our team but for a saints fan to try and mark down Cox, well....

 

[The 747]

Cox is revered for his around the ground coverage.

IMHO too much of this is done behind the ball as a linkman and not enough of it in front of the ball as a target that may concern the opposition.

Agree with this completely.

Having the ruckman take uncontested marks across half back is not all that valuable IMHO.

No doubt both are excellent ruckmen, but I find it difficult to compare rucks from one era to another.

 

[Quinz]

Cox gets plenty of inside 50s and contested possessions, this year is taking more contested marks.

In 08 he was the leading ruckman for inside 50s, rebounds 50s and 2nd in clearances. Just has an enormous work rate and gets uncontested possessions because his opponents can't stay with him. Still has plenty of the ball in dangerous areas though.

 

[kane249]

Should be a player who can go forward and convert his chances. 61 goals in the last 6 seasons is terrible.

Sandilands has 54, so what does this prove then?

 

[anti_]

comparing parts of their game

Marking - i'd say cox wins this, sandilands should take more marks for a giant guy. he does it at times but, still lacks consistency in the area.

Kicking - in general play you'd say cox, his skills on both feet are great. i think sandilands is a pretty decent kick though, both of them would have pretty similar accuracy at goals i'd have thought.

Tap Work - sandilands wins a million hit outs a game, he dominates every week. you'd say cox is still in the top 3 in the league for tap work, he wins a lot of knocks and is pretty influential. cant beat sandilands here.

Clearance work - sandilands is pretty proficient at winning hard ball and dishing off hands or a quick kick. he's racked up some insane numbers in some games. cox is more of a loose handball receiver on the outside who delivers neatly with his footskills. both are play different roles in this regard.

running capacity/ground coverage - cox, he regularly takes relieving marks in the backline and is then seen streaming forward to receive the footy.

goal kicking - cox wins this one i think, although i think fremantle use him forward a lot less than we do with cox. im yet to see sandilands actually kick a big bag of goals.

they're different types of ruckmen, so it depends what you like more: tap work/clearances or another midfielder who is a slightly lesser player in terms of hit outs.

i'll go with cox purely because of the fact he's played better for longer and he's had a major impact on finals matches. he was just about best on ground in the 06 GF.

the only query i have with sandilands is that if another 211-213cm player came along, would he be as good as sandilands in time as well? being so gigantically tall and strong just gives him a massive advantage. i guess we'll find out when 'the new aaron sandilands' is drafted.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Effectively an extra half back.



Should be a player who can go forward and convert his chances. 61 goals in the last 6 seasons is terrible.

You Trollin Bro?
I would take an extra half back flanker then some giant un-cordinated ruckman kicking a goal every 3 games/

Tell me what Cox's Opponent is doing while Cox is doing this? Is he in the forwardline kicking 3-4 goals a game? No he isnt, he;s usually trailing cox with the opposition coach pulling his hair out that Cox' direct opponent's only chance to hurt him is the other way and bagging 2-3 goals up forward,

Which happens about once a season. While Cox will rack up 20 possessions, usually un-accounted for purely because the other ruckmans jogging behind play waiting for a ball up or guarding space. While cox is utilised as an attacking midfielder. Thats one more Midfielder/Back Flanker you cant cover.

Sandilands does neither of these, he's however a cornerstone in freo's rebounding from defensive 50 being a giant target where he'll most likely win his duel (a hugely under-rated asset in todays football where pressure in the forward half is a MUST), Will consistantly win the ruck, set his midfielders up with the first look, he does this better then Cox, Not that Cox is bad at these things, he;s one of the best. His Endurance is amazing as well, not many Ruckman do it themselves, and not all of them are carrying about 10cm and 20 kilos more then Other Ruckmen and still destroy them endurance-wise, while Cox is much quicker, dont believe for a second he's got the endurance on Sandi, the guy runs with the midfielders as well, they would be pretty damn close

Would take Sandilands however, Complain all you want, its a damn hard choice, your team would probably trade two-three of their best 5 players for either, and it would still be a bargin

 

[kane249]

the only query i have with sandilands is that if another 211-213cm player came along, would he be as good as sandilands in time as well? being so gigantically tall and strong just gives him a massive advantage. i guess we'll find out when 'the new aaron sandilands' is drafted.

Funny enough his younger brother Chad is due to get drafted soon

 

[Ochre]

Should be a player who can go forward and convert his chances. 61 goals in the last 6 seasons is terrible.

Thats one less than Sandi's career goals.

the only query i have with sandilands is that if another 211-213cm player came along, would he be as good as sandilands in time as well? being so gigantically tall and strong just gives him a massive advantage. i guess we'll find out when 'the new aaron sandilands' is drafted.

Wasn't Peter Street 211?

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Effectively an extra half back.

61 goals in the last 6 seasons is terrible.

He has spent a lot of time injured in the last couple of seasons.

Regardless from 2011 stats for ruckmen Cox is:

1st for contested marks

2nd in contested possessions

3rd in clearances

5th in first possessions

This is against players like Sandilands, Brogan and Hudson who are primarily contested players.

3rd in i50's

3rd in scoring assists

4th in scoring involvements

7th in goals

7th in marks inside 50

Despite as you say effectively being an extra HB. This is against players like Vickery, Ryder, Hille, Clark and McKernan who are either now forwards or spend a lot of time there.

In other seasons he has topped or come close to for many of these categories.

Note I am ignoring the stats where he dominates in such disposals, kicks, hitouts, marks, rebound 50's etc.

He simply covers so much ground and is top 3-10 in just about every stat you can think of when it comes to ruckman, regardless of their specialities. A true all rounder.

 

[juddy_Like]

Effectively an extra half back.

Really.

I swear Coxy covers more ground than any other ruckman bar Mumford really.

Should be a player who can go forward and convert his chances. 61 goals in the last 6 seasons is terrible.

Selective stats much?
How about 107 goals in 211 games. Not bad for a ruckman. Quite comparable to say Jolly's 98 goals from 196 games.


FWIW... 7 goals from 9 games means he is almost averaging a goal a game.

Not exactly terrible.

 

[Eskimo_Fennel]

lol look at all the weagle fans in here talking up cox.........

This.

How dare they... I mean, seriously, what's he ever done?!(notsrs)

 

[Falchoon]

Sandilands has 54, so what does this prove then?

that Cox's around the ground 'strength' is not as great as perceived.