SANFL Clubs - not the bad guys

[kwame]

root of the problem seems to be the SANFL taking money from port and the crows so SANFL clubs can pay players they cant afford

 

[Subprime]

I agree. Moving to a new stadium in the city is the perfect time to do it too.

The big challenge (which I don't expect Melbournians to understand) is that one possible new model is that the AFL funds State footy here. That's something no-one who cares about SANFL footy is comfortable with, because the AFL's grand plan for footy over here is for 50% of people to go to an AFL game and the other 50% to sit on their arses at home and watch it on Foxtel.

The AFL want to fund SA don't they? Is there an issue here?

Surely it can't be over "AFL-SA" signage or something. I mean who really gives a shit. It can't be the U17's & U19's anymore because now there are U18's.

 

[PrideOf]

The AFL want to fund SA don't they? Is there an issue here?

Of course there is. I'm not naive enough to believe that the AFL wants the best for everyone in Australia. I sincerely doubt the AFL would adequately fund footy in SA - they'd give enough money to keep local footy alive but only just, while ploughing the rest of the money into the AFL clubs, Under 18s comp (which is an AFL feeder system anyway) and pushing people to sign up for Foxtel.

It's no surprise local footy over here (and in the West as well) is nervous about the AFL just flat out taking over.

 

[PortBrillance]

root of the problem seems to be the SANFL taking money from port and the crows so SANFL clubs can pay players they cant afford

Spot on

 

[Subprime]

Of course there is. I'm not naive enough to believe that the AFL wants the best for everyone in Australia. I sincerely doubt the AFL would adequately fund footy in SA - they'd give enough money to keep local footy alive but only just, while ploughing the rest of the money into the AFL clubs, Under 18s comp (which is an AFL feeder system anyway) and pushing people to sign up for Foxtel.

It's no surprise local footy over here (and in the West as well) is nervous about the AFL just flat out taking over.

The way I'm reading it is that you reckon footy in SA will be better off with less money overall because the AFL doesn't have the best interests of the game of Australian football at heart, is that right?

I find that very hard to believe.

 

[kwame]

SANFL have some very bad delusions of grandeur going on

 

[Macca19]

The AFL want to fund SA don't they? Is there an issue here?

Surely it can't be over "AFL-SA" signage or something. I mean who really gives a shit. It can't be the U17's & U19's anymore because now there are U18's.

The AFL-SA issue is only knew. About 4 years ago now the AFL, as it did to WA, offered to provide millions of dollars for junior development if it went to U18s and dropped its salary cap in line with other leagues. The SANFL declined then two years later moved to U18s anyway, but has refused to drop its salary cap, so the SANFL still does the heavy lifting when it comes to junior development in SA.

 

[Subprime]

The AFL-SA issue is only knew. About 4 years ago now the AFL, as it did to WA, offered to provide millions of dollars for junior development if it went to U18s and dropped its salary cap in line with other leagues. The SANFL declined then two years later moved to U18s anyway, but has refused to drop its salary cap, so the SANFL still does the heavy lifting when it comes to junior development in SA.

So the SANFL salary cap is the heart of the issue then?

It seems strange to me to think that SA can outspend WA and Vic at local league level and also expect to compete in the national competition when you consider the economic growth rates of those places compared to SA.

Surely something had to give eventually and this week maybe was it.

 

[aneale]

The AFL-SA issue is only new. About 4 years ago now the AFL, as it did to WA, offered to provide millions of dollars for junior development if it went to U18s and dropped its salary cap in line with other leagues.

no it isn't, that issue was at the forefront of it. They had to go with AFLSA because they couldn't use their preferred SAAFL because the Ammo's won't let that go. It was all tied up in the same deal.

 

[PrideOf]

The way I'm reading it is that you reckon footy in SA will be better off with less money overall because the AFL doesn't have the best interests of the game of Australian football at heart, is that right?

I find that very hard to believe.

You're not reading it wrong, you're just reading it with the wrong glasses.

Your statement presumes two things: that the AFL will spend more money in SA if it takes over and that the AFL has the best interests of the game at heart.

Both of those presumptions don't fly outside of Melbourne.

 

[Subprime]

You're not reading it wrong, you're just reading it with the wrong glasses.

Your statement presumes two things: that the AFL will spend more money in SA if it takes over and that the AFL has the best interests of the game at heart.

Both of those presumptions don't fly outside of Melbourne.

I've lived in SA nearly all my life so spare me the 'outside Melbourne' guff will you.

How is the AFL going to "take over" by spending money on junior development in SA?

 

[PrideOf]

So the SANFL salary cap is the heart of the issue then?

No. It's a part of the issue - but it's not the whole thing, regardless of what Port Power fans want you to think.

You've got the SANFL defending its patch and its league.

You've got Port who are desperate to get away from the SANFL, regardless of the cost.

You've got the AFL sensing a chance to move in.

You've got management of a poorly-run AFL club also in question.

You've got questions about how the SANFL is managing its money.

You've got issues about why attendances and TV viewing in Adelaide is falling - and the myriad reasons behind that, ranging from the style of footy to the times games are scheduled or are shown live against the gate.

You've also got an AFL who has two conflicting objectives - to grow attendances and TV viewing.

It's not as simple as 'give us our licence and everyone will be happy'.

 

[Cap]

So why don't you agitate for more monies from the AFL, similar to the other comps and teams around Australia, instead of blaming Port?

Why Don't Port fans stop blaiming the SANFL for thier woes?

 

[PrideOf]

I've lived in SA nearly all my life so spare me the 'outside Melbourne' guff will you.

How is the AFL going to "take over" by spending money on junior development in SA?

I didn't say you were reading it wrong because you were from Melbourne. I said those presumptions don't work outside Melbourne. Ask any footy fan in Victoria whether they give a shit about any other league in Australia. That response is how the Vic-centric footy mafia views the rest of us.

As to your other question: considering how much the AFL wants to run everything in Australia - how are they NOT going to take over? You honestly believe they'll be happy to provide money and watch from afar? That's what staggers me with Port at the moment. They think the AFL will bail them out, give them a licence and wish them well. They'll be so far up Port's arse all they'll be able to taste in the back of their throats is Andy D's hair product.

 

[Subprime]

No. It's a part of the issue - but it's not the whole thing, regardless of what Port Power fans want you to think.

You've got the SANFL defending its patch and its league.

You've got Port who are desperate to get away from the SANFL, regardless of the cost.

You've got the AFL sensing a chance to move in.

You've got management of a poorly-run AFL club also in question.

You've got questions about how the SANFL is managing its money.

You've got issues about why attendances and TV viewing in Adelaide is falling - and the myriad reasons behind that, ranging from the style of footy to the times games are scheduled or are shown live against the gate.

You've also got an AFL who has two conflicting objectives - to grow attendances and TV viewing.

It's not as simple as 'give us our licence and everyone will be happy'.

I can think for myself thanks and I've observed things in SA closely.

I'd say its to do with 2 SA-based AFL clubs trying to compete on a national stage equitably while having to also fund the 'second best footy comp in Australia'.

It ain't gunna work in the smallest mainland state.

The SANFL clubs really need to accept that a national competition came into being a couple of decades ago.

 

[PortBrillance]

The SANFL clubs really need to accept that a national competition came into being a couple of decades ago.

Totally agree with this. People in SA (in particular the SANFL & it's clubs) are stuck in the past. The SANFL clubs still think that they are important and hold some power in SA.

It's funny how much denial the SANFL and the clubs are in

 

[Subprime]

I didn't say you were reading it wrong because you were from Melbourne. I said those presumptions don't work outside Melbourne. Ask any footy fan in Victoria whether they give a shit about any other league in Australia. That response is how the Vic-centric footy mafia views the rest of us.

As to your other question: considering how much the AFL wants to run everything in Australia - how are they NOT going to take over? You honestly believe they'll be happy to provide money and watch from afar? That's what staggers me with Port at the moment. They think the AFL will bail them out, give them a licence and wish them well. They'll be so far up Port's arse all they'll be able to taste in the back of their throats is Andy D's hair product.

How are they going to take over? Are they demanding the SANFL hand over footy park?

The AFL has actually played a key role in the AO deal which will significantly increase the SANFL's asset base.

Is that part of the plan to take over?

Come off it will you. The nub of it seems to be that the SANFL salary cap is set higher that the WAFL's & the VFL's.

 

[Macca19]

I'd say its to do with 2 SA-based AFL clubs trying to compete on a national stage equitably while having to also fund the 'second best footy comp in Australia'.

That is the gist of it really.

 

[King Elvis]

root of the problem seems to be the SANFL taking money from port and the crows so SANFL clubs can pay players they cant afford

Root of the problem is the Power aren't able to operate under the conditions that they agreed to enter the AFL under.

Totally agree with this. People in SA (in particular the SANFL & it's clubs) are stuck in the past. The SANFL clubs still think that they are important and hold some power in SA.

It's funny how much denial the SANFL and the clubs are in

Port are stuck in the past; well, until their marketing department decide to change tact every other year.

I'd suggest you're the ones who are in denial, more so than the SANFL - it's not the SANFL's fault you struggle to draw a crowd of more than 20,000 to your home games, is it?

SANFL will make hundred million plus from the AAMI Redevelopment - they'll probably happily sell your license back to the AFL when that happens.

 

[Subprime]

Root of the problem is the Power aren't able to operate under the conditions that they agreed to enter the AFL under.
....

Are you saying that one of Norwood-Sturt, Glenelg-South or Central-West-North-WWT wouldn't have struggled under the conditions the SANFL imposed had they been successful?

Remember none of the entrants had any control over their conditions of entry and no one outside SA has to meet the SANFL's conditions.

 

[King Elvis]

I think short term Port were the best option, but I think long term, one of the other options would've worked out much better.

 

[absfab]

Most outside of Victoria are sick and tired of the gradual creep towards 'Victoriarising' the game. We have an 'AFL Hall of Fame' when its actually an Australia Football Hall of Fame and all we hear about is how middle of the road Victorian footballers deserve to go in over out and out champions of other leagues because of some misguided belief that the VFL >>>> anyone else throughout eternity.

Multi generational nferiority complex much?

If you're a pro golfer, you can't claim top level status unless you succeed in the USA. The best players from all over the world go there. Yanks by and large don't travel. You don't play against the best, you have no claim to be among the best.

The pre AFL situation in footy was the same. The best players from WA and SA chased the money to Victoria. No Victorian worth a pinch of snuff moved the other way.

You don't have to like it much, just move on and live with it.

 

[Forzaport]

One question for Port fans:

"Considering so many of you openly hate the SANFL so much and would be happy if it died tomorrow, why do you expect the SANFL to be fair to you and not reciprocate that attitude?"

Haven't been able to get a straight answer on that from my Port mates for days.

Hating the SANFL is not the same as wanting the SANFL to die. I would not want the SANFL to die tomorrow. I want the SANFL to have an independent SAFC that isn't heavily influenced by the SANFL clubs.

You've got management of a poorly-run AFL club also in question.

You've got questions about how the SANFL is managing its money.

So Port Adelaide is poorly run but not the SANFL?

By the same logic the Crows are also poorly run as they'll be posting a loss for the second consecutive year. How can a club with 70% of the support in SA post a loss 2 years running? Why has your membership and attendences sunk for 4 years on the trott? Why haven't the membership figures for 2011 been released?

If you're going to slander the management of the Port Adelaide Football Club, you must surely look in your own back yard, unless you're a hypocrite. Maybe that pot calling the kettle black image is more of a reflection of you than a jibe at PortBrillance.

Root of the problem is the Power aren't able to operate under the conditions that they agreed to enter the AFL under.

Way too one-dimensional. You can't expect a model which worked in the late 90s to work today.

I think short term Port were the best option, but I think long term, one of the other options would've worked out much better.

Rubbish. Pure rubbish. One the other options would have stripped members away from the Crows and would not have attracted the membership base that Port Adelaide currently has. The "pie" would have been much smaller in SA.

 

[kaysee]

One question for Port fans:

"Considering so many of you openly hate the SANFL so much and would be happy if it died tomorrow, why do you expect the SANFL to be fair to you and not reciprocate that attitude?"

Haven't been able to get a straight answer on that from my Port mates for days.

That question is based on an equal relationship existing between the 2 parties: SANFL and PAFC... but it isn't an equal relationship. Due to agreements on licensing, games at AAMI, and dividends PAFC must have a relationship with the SANFL. The SANFL doesn't have to that integrated relationship PAFC (or the AFC).

The SANFL could relax on the agreements and turn the AFL licenses over to both clubs, remove the SANFL dividend requirements and revert to acting as purely a SMA for AAMI.

Then both parties are free to operate on equal terms: PAFC/AFC can accept SANFL-AAMI stadium deals or source and alternative (that is agreed on by the AFL), likewise SANFL-AAMI can tailor stadium deals to obtain PAFC/AFC as tennants.

PAFC (with exception of the Magpies) is an AFL identity now (same with the AFC). Both teams should really have no connection to the SANFL except when dealing with playing games at AAMI... ie SANFL is AAMI's owner/managers.

Both clubs shouldn't have to feel like 2 siblings being forced to live with their crazy uncle.

But to summerize and answer your question:
Hatred still runs through many SANFL clubs and the SANFL hiearchy... so perhaps Port supporter's are in fact mirroring the SANFL "hate" towards them.

 

[sigur]

I can think for myself thanks and I've observed things in SA closely.

I'd say its to do with 2 SA-based AFL clubs trying to compete on a national stage equitably while having to also fund the 'second best footy comp in Australia'.

It ain't gunna work in the smallest mainland state.

The SANFL clubs really need to accept that a national competition came into being a couple of decades ago.

So what you're saying is that even though the SANFL owns the two AFL licenses they aren't entitled to any revenue from the license?