SEASON 2019

[Ata Glance]

Think the Premier league reserve games tell you the story and what was everyone’s concern when the merger talks were happening. Not sure that will be a sustainable outcome for YV clubs.

 

[insidethevalley]

Big rumours a previous powerhouse won’t bother fielding a 2s side on their away journey this week.

Laughable any ranges side voted for this merger.

Will destroy many clubs.

 

[The jouneyman]

Big rumours a previous powerhouse won’t bother fielding a 2s side on their away journey this week.

Laughable any ranges side voted for this merger.

Will destroy many clubs.

Blah blah, mate there was similar scores in D1 reserve's in 2018 and from what i was told,most clubs voted for the merger.....harden up.

 

[TeeS]

Big rumours a previous powerhouse won’t bother fielding a 2s side on their away journey this week.

Laughable any ranges side voted for this merger.

Will destroy many clubs.

A couple of clubs (inc mine) have had a good run at Reserves in recent years, yeah it’s not easy right now but FFS take the hit !!

Just on another note, why do people keep writing that the clubs shouldn’t have voted for the merger ? It has nothing to do with “the clubs”, it was a directive from the “commission” and the whilst the clubs were certainly well briefed during the build up to it, they have no say in what actually happens.

When the clubs of AFLYR chose to install the commission a few years back, part of that agreement was that they’d lose all voting rights on such matters as the direction of the competition !!

 

[Tangleswalker]

There was no vote from clubs, TeeS is right. I strongly disagree though with the sentiment that clubs simply need to “take the hit”. The inability of sides to produce a reserves side for whatever reason is a terrible result for the competition, especially at the top end or “Premier” level.

Those rumours regarding a forfeiture in the premier reserve competition this weekend are very real and won’t be the only one for the remainder of the season.
The competitive imbalance in the reserve comp at the premier level is a massive problem and is effecting participation numbers. Valley clubs don’t and will never possess the depth the SEFNL clubs have. Simple geography doesn’t allow it. How the under 18 competition wasn’t graded too is beyond me. The score lines in that grade are in no way good for player retention at under 18 level. Wether the merger was needed or not, is working or not is a matter of individual opinion. The numbers though paint a damning picture at the Premier division level.

 

[Tangleswalker]

Combined scores in all three premier grades after 3 rounds in crossover games are as follows.

Under 18’s
Valley teams: 39.23- 257
Vs
SEFNL: 151.129- 1035

Reserves
Valley: 8.16- 64
Vs
SEFNL 112.96- 768

Seniors
Valley: 56.39- 375
Vs
119.89- 803

 

[Derby103]

A few years ago, when I was writing articles for the footy record, I did some research into Reserves and Under 18 scores. I reproduce the list here because i) it may be of interest, and ii) it shows that horrible thrashings in the lower grades are nothing new at all. Most of the clubs on the end of these beatings are still around today. It might even be character building for some of today’s chip-kicking sleeve-tatts to be on the end of poundings like this.

Reserves

Upwey-Tecoma 59.42 (396) v South Belgrave 1.1 (7), 1974
Warburton-Millgrove 4.1 (25) v Woori Yallock 54.31 (355), 1976
Yarra Junction 52.20 (332) v Worawa 0.3 (3), 13 Apr 2002 Dale Atkin 19 goals, Seniors score was 49.26 to 3.2
Powelltown 5.6 (36) v Yarra Junction 42.27 (279), 26 May 2007 Luke Quick (YJ) 13 goals
Warburton-Millgrove 42.21 (273) v Seville 3.1 (19), 29 Jul 2006 Daniel Ormsby (WM) 19 goals
Warburton-Millgrove 41.26 (272) v Seville 0.1 (1), 21 Jul 2001
Upwey-Tecoma 41.23 (269) v Wandin 2.2 (14), 31 Jul 2004
Upwey-Tecoma 40.26 (266) v Olinda-Ferny Creek 3.1 (19), 17 Jun 2006 Upwey had 18 individual goalkickers
Olinda-Ferny Creek 1.3 (9) v Upwey-Tecoma 40.24 (264), 23 Jun 2007 Darren Oates (U) 15 goals
Gembrook-Cockatoo 38.31 (259) v Yarra Junction 4.0 (24), 31 Jul 2004
Powelltown 0.3 (3) v Yarra Junction 38.30 (258), 15 Jul 2000 Dale Atkin 15 goals
Upwey-Tecoma 38.29 (257) v Seville 2.2 (14), 5 May 2001
Upwey-Tecoma 38.28 (256) v Olinda-Ferny Creek 1.2 (8), 20 Jul 2002
Seville 0.0 (0) v Upwey-Tecoma 38.27 (255), 14 Jul 2001 Jeremy Selleck (U) 14 goals
Monbulk 40.13 (253) v Olinda-Ferny Creek 1.0 (6), 17 Apr 2004
Yarra Junction 37.22 (244) v Powelltown 1.4 (10), 4 Aug 2007
Gembrook-Cockatoo 37.19 (241) v Powelltown 3.3 (21), 8 Apr 2000
Warburton-Millgrove 36.23 (239) v Thornton-Eildon 2.2 (14), 20 May 2006
South Belgrave 37.17 (239) v Powelltown 2.2 (14), 1 Jul 2000
Yarra Glen 37.15 (237) v Thornton-Eildon 1.1 (7), 8 May 2010
Warburton-Millgrove 35.26 (236) v Yarra Glen 2.3 (15), 29 Apr 2006 16.7 to 0.0 in the last
Seville 37.12 (234) v Powelltown 0.0 (0), 8 May 2004 Mark Johnson (Sev) 15 goals
Alexandra 33.36 (234) v Powelltown 2.1 (13), 9 Jun 2007
Silvan 5.6 (36) v Mount Evelyn 36.16 (232), 8 May 2004
Upwey-Tecoma 35.21 (231) v Woori Yallock 7.2 (44), 26 Aug 2006
Boronia Park 5.4 (34) v Yarra Glen 35.20 (230), 8 Apr 2000
Alexandra 35.15 (225) v Seville 3.4 (22), 8 Jul 2006
Olinda-Ferny Creek 33.25 (223) v Powelltown 0.1 (1), 4 Jul 2009 Andy Greenall (O) 17 goals
Wandin 34.18 (222) v Belgrave 3.7 (25), 22 Jul 2006 Jason Young (Wand) 17 goals
Upwey-Tecoma 34.17 (221) v Woori Yallock 2.5 (17), 11 Aug 2007 Darren Oates (U) 16 goals

Under 18

Olinda-Ferny Creek 44.21 (285) v Wandin 1.0 (6), 14 Aug 2010 Luke Van Lierop (O) 17 goals
Warburton-Gembrook 41.24 (270) v Wandin 0.0 (0), 5 Jun 2010
Powelltown 1.1 (7) v Yarra Glen 39.20 (254), 14 Jul 2012
Healesville 37.22 (244) v Wandin 0.1 (1), 31 Jul 2010
Belgrave 36.24 (240) v Powelltown 2.1 (13), 19 May 2007 Jesse Pearce (B) 15 goals
Wandin 1.3 (9) v Healesville 36.20 (236), 29 May 2010
Powelltown 2.3 (15) v Mount Evelyn 34.26 (230), 5 Jul 2014
Powelltown 1.1 (7) v Seville 34.24 (228), 27 Apr 2013
Belgrave 1.1 (7) v South Belgrave 35.16 (226), 28 Apr 2001
Warburton-Gembrook 33.27 (225) v Wandin 0.0 (0), 24 Apr 2010
Yarra Glen 34.20 (224) v Thornton-Eildon 0.1 (1), 3 May 2008
Wandin 35.13 (223) v Gembrook-Cockatoo 0.1 (1), 14 Jul 2012
Olinda-Ferny Creek 1.2 (8) v Healesville 34.14 (218), 30 Jul 2005 Scott Hill (H) 17 goals
Yea 33.18 (216) v Powelltown 1.0 (6), 17 May 2014 Yea had eighteen separate goalkickers
Wandin 0.2 (2) v Olinda-Ferny Creek 30.31 (211), 12 Jun 2010 Mitchell Meadows (O) 13 goals

 

[insidethevalley]

A couple of clubs (inc mine) have had a good run at Reserves in recent years, yeah it’s not easy right now but FFS take the hit !!

Just on another note, why do people keep writing that the clubs shouldn’t have voted for the merger ? It has nothing to do with “the clubs”, it was a directive from the “commission” and the whilst the clubs were certainly well briefed during the build up to it, they have no say in what actually happens.

When the clubs of AFLYR chose to install the commission a few years back, part of that agreement was that they’d lose all voting rights on such matters as the direction of the competition !!

Clubs were surveyed. While their vote didn’t “count” officially they could have pushed back.

In the interview they said 90% of clubs were in favour of the merger. Would love to see those numbers now.

Last year you had most of the comp in Finals contention for the whole year. Every club was in with a shot. Now Woori Yallock is the only chance from the ranges clubs you would say.

The league is totally unbalanced and will destroy under 18s and reserves footy. These kids can play in the eastern and not be humiliated every week.

 

[Nick Crossland]

Some of the commentary on here around Reserves and U18s "hardening up" or "building character" by getting flogged are amongst the most ridiculous things I have read.

I'd love to see some of those "experts" taking hours (likely days) week in week out of their paid day job to call 20,30,40 blokes to try and cobble a side together like our footy department does - instead they find it productive to sit on here behind an alias and take pot shots at the kids or young men - I think I know who needs to 'build some character'...

Plus, some of the so called understanding of how this process evolved to get to where we are today is laughable...

 

[The jouneyman]

Some of the commentary on here around Reserves and U18s "hardening up" or "building character" by getting flogged are amongst the most ridiculous things I have read.

I'd love to see some of those "experts" taking hours (likely days) week in week out of their paid day job to call 20,30,40 blokes to try and cobble a side together like our footy department does - instead they find it productive to sit on here behind an alias and take pot shots at the kids or young men - I think I know who needs to 'build some character'...

Plus, some of the so called understanding of how this process evolved to get to where we are today is laughable...

Well fill us in on on how the process evolved to where it is today,so we get a better understanding

 

[Nick Crossland]

Well fill us in on on how the process evolved to where it is today,so we get a better understanding

Not my role to up-skill you on the workings of local football administration, nor is this the platform...
I am sure whatever your local club is - they would love an extra volunteer to help - they can fill you in.

 

[insidethevalley]

Some of the commentary on here around Reserves and U18s "hardening up" or "building character" by getting flogged are amongst the most ridiculous things I have read.

I'd love to see some of those "experts" taking hours (likely days) week in week out of their paid day job to call 20,30,40 blokes to try and cobble a side together like our footy department does - instead they find it productive to sit on here behind an alias and take pot shots at the kids or young men - I think I know who needs to 'build some character'...

Plus, some of the so called understanding of how this process evolved to get to where we are today is laughable...

Yep agreed. Any calls to harden up are laughable.

This isn’t bad management from Yarra clubs, it’s simply you cannot compete with Berwick or Craigieburn reserves and 19s when your town has 10% of the number of people not to mention a different age demographic.

 

[dgball]

Some of the clubs struggling with reserves numbers were struggling before the season started. U.18's have been a problem before the merger. Clubs have had very competitive U.18's one year and none the next. No doubt teams getting smashed every week will see numbers drop off so that is a concern, but not new. Fact is clubs were well informed before merger and there was very little push back. Process WAS NOT LAUGHABLE. We have some very strong Premier clubs from South East who are belting some old Yarra Ranges clubs, but as Derby103 points out, smashings have always been happening.

It is not about "hardening up" it is about finding where you sit in the scheme of things and working on getting to where you want to be. With 3 Divisions the League is better placed to offer clubs their right level. It may take a few years to settle, so don't over react as to where it is today. Also, remember, Woori have been strong in the firsts and useless in the reserves for years, but always seem to be a happy and successful club.

 

[Tangleswalker]

Some of the clubs struggling with reserves numbers were struggling before the season started. U.18's have been a problem before the merger. Clubs have had very competitive U.18's one year and none the next. No doubt teams getting smashed every week will see numbers drop off so that is a concern, but not new. Fact is clubs were well informed before merger and there was very little push back. Process WAS NOT LAUGHABLE. We have some very strong Premier clubs from South East who are belting some old Yarra Ranges clubs, but as Derby103 points out, smashings have always been happening.

It is not about "hardening up" it is about finding where you sit in the scheme of things and working on getting to where you want to be. With 3 Divisions the League is better placed to offer clubs their right level. It may take a few years to settle, so don't over react as to where it is today. Also, remember, Woori have been strong in the firsts and useless in the reserves for years, but always seem to be a happy and successful club.

Were you involved in the process at your club dgball?

 

[The jouneyman]

Yep agreed. Any calls to harden up are laughable.

This isn’t bad management from Yarra clubs, it’s simply you cannot compete with Berwick or Craigieburn reserves and 19s when your town has 10% of the number of people not to mention a different age demographic.

I remember people used too sook about upwey being too strong, then it was silvan being too strong, now berwick and narre cranny and now people are concerned about reserve grade football, do yourself a favour insidethevalley and have alook at scores in last season's south east reserve grade scores,there smashings every week,some teams didn't even score a goal in some rounds and i still stand by what i said.....harden up

 

[dgball]

Were you involved in the process at your club dgball?

Yes, all clubs had the opportunity to be involved. The Commission also offered to go out to all clubs and talk through the proposal with members and supporters. There was one club that tried to get a meeting up to offer some resistance but there was no support fro them, so they let it slide.

 

[Broken Bone]

There are clubs right through Victoria every week that are going to games knowing they will get smashed every week. Why do they do it? Because of the love for the CLUB. A badge of honor to get a team together to have a crack rather than let the club forfeit. Old timers/legends of the club will lace it up one last time just to get a team on the park. This shows the true spirit of the club & its supporters. The likes of Powelltown in the past & more recent Thornton (who have the travel factor to contend with as well) have shown the fight. I hope that this "powerhouse" team is only forfeiting due to lack of numbers & not the fear of getting belted. I am sure the said club has handed out a few thrashings over the last few years

 

[aussie80s]

2016 Census Population figures

Berwick 47,674
Pakenham 46,421
Narre Warren 26,621
Cranbourne 20,094 and the greater Cranbourne area 51,340
Beaconsfield 10,679
Mt Evelyn 9,374
Doveton 8,404
Officer 7,133
Upwey 6,760 and Tecoma 2,082
Gembrook 2,350 and Cockatoo 4,256
Healesville 6,567
Alexandra 6,420
Emerald 5,778
Belgrave 3,929
Monbulk 3,577
Warburton 2,012 and Millgrove 1,653
Wandin (North) 3,051
Olinda 1,738 and Ferny Creek 1,536
Yarra Glen 2,869
Woori Yallock 2,806
Yarra Junction 2,549
Seville 2,371
Kinglake 1,536
Thornton 299 and Eildon 974
Yea 1,170
Powelltown 217

 

[Aeglos]

2016 Census Population figures

Berwick 47,674
Pakenham 46,421
Narre Warren 26,621
Cranbourne 20,094 and the greater Cranbourne area 51,340
Beaconsfield 10,679
Mt Evelyn 9,374
Doveton 8,404
Officer 7,133
Upwey 6,760 and Tecoma 2,082
Gembrook 2,350 and Cockatoo 4,256
Healesville 6,567
Alexandra 6,420
Emerald 5,778
Belgrave 3,929
Monbulk 3,577
Warburton 2,012 and Millgrove 1,653
Wandin (North) 3,051
Olinda 1,738 and Ferny Creek 1,536
Yarra Glen 2,869
Woori Yallock 2,806
Yarra Junction 2,549
Seville 2,371
Kinglake 1,536
Thornton 299 and Eildon 974
Yea 1,170
Powelltown 217

Not all about the population.
Vermont’s is under 12,000 and would wipe the floor with any of those top 4 listed.

 

[aussie80s]

Not all about the population.
Vermont’s is under 12,000 and would wipe the floor with any of those top 4 listed.

True, and nearby Nunawading have a population of 10,947 and most teams would beat them. It's not all about population but it does have a big contributing factor if you have a population nearby to draw upon. There used to be 100's of small country clubs that either no longer exist or had to merge as the population moved away. It also comes down to age demographics and other social factors.

I believe Vermont have poker machines - as do East Ringwood, Noble Park etc. Its a combination of hard working club people and volunteers, population and resources that allow teams to become strong. You can't maintain strength if you don't have all those factors.

Vermont are an extremely well run club with a strong committee and club culture who have the resources and people they need to continually be able to attract the players. As a result there are good players at Vermont who don't live there and good players living in Nunawading who don't play there. At Vermont you have to actually make the list, you can't just rock up and ask to play while Nunawading would be happy to accept new recruits.

Without a population, resources can still provide a competitive team. Silvan (pop 1,246 in 2016 census), who were perennial strugglers in 2nd divvy, found the resources for a while that they needed to become competitive and won two premierships in 1st Div. When they were unable to maintain their income source they quickly dropped away again. It can be cyclical as former Eastern powerhouses Mitcham and East Burwood are now in the 3rd and 4th tiers of their comps.

Population does have the effect where some of the growth corridor netball clubs have tryouts to make it on to their lists while Beaconsfield could have easily played 2 U18 football teams last year. That is an advantage of having a youthful demographic. At the other end of the spectrum I was told that Olinda Primary School has only 16 pupils all up this year.

In U18s there are only 2 2nd Div clubs able to field teams, while at some growth corridor clubs there are players unable to play as they don't have teams for them as they try to fit up to 50 kids into one side.

Salary caps have been introduced to try and apply a more level playing field but the Eastern FL has a cap twice that of the outer east I believe - $240K to $120K I think a few years ago in the top divisions, not sure of the current figures. Without knowing the individual financial circumstances of clubs, I would think that for most of the Yarra Valley clubs the cap is just a number as they have no hope of raising those funds.

Small towns that have neither the population or the resources rely largely on volunteers. It's a lot harder to attract the players and support staff - which all clubs try to do - if they don't have the resources. These sort of situations will burn out the volunteers who are the lifeblood of clubs and can't be good for the long term viability of the clubs. I have always been in awe of Powelltown as such a small community can keep sustaining their clubs - it takes a great culture and people to maintain teams against the odds that they must face every year.

I assume Wandin was the team mentioned that was unable to field a reserves team judging from the match result. The Healesville scoreline didn't look all that good either in the reserves, 204 to nil.

Having said all that, I am in favour a larger tiered league. It is an inaugural competition this year and there were always going to be problems arising that will hopefully be dealt with as the competition settles.

Being an AFL run competition I just hope that common sense prevails and all teams will be able to compete at a level where they will be competitive and sustainable. Things are cyclical so a larger sample size of results is required to establish the future direction and actions taken.

 

[gelder01]

Population figures was something that an official from Rosebud put up to influence / encourage other clubs to not vote for SEFNL merger! It is flawed, as it gives impression that every team draws from its own backyard!
Blokes in Ressie sides that just cant get a game in the 1's, will look elsewhere to play ones. There are the stalwart 2's players who love the club and will stick regardless and get the occassional senior game.
It is hard work trying to build up on youth, it takes time and a dedicated committee working together going the same way.
It currently is an unenviable position that some clubs find themselves in!

Now, how do Wandin go from beating Berwick in Round 1 to getting poleaxed by Beaconsfield and Cranbourne? Is it ground size, injuries or lack of commitment to the cause? Not fielding a 2's side, is it some sort of protest to the Outer East League Commission?

 

[insidethevalley]

You’ve essentially merged a country league with a metro league.

It doesn’t work. The culture is completely different. Yarra ranges reserves sides and 18s who were playing in finals are now getting smashed by 100+ points. The demographic just doesn’t work.

What’s in it for any of these clubs is really what I’d ask from these blokes who claim “harden up”

Last year was super close with competitive games weekly.

 

[Aeglos]

You’ve essentially merged a country league with a metro league.

It doesn’t work. The culture is completely different. Yarra ranges reserves sides and 18s who were playing in finals are now getting smashed by 100+ points. The demographic just doesn’t work.

What’s in it for any of these clubs is really what I’d ask from these blokes who claim “harden up”

Last year was super close with competitive games weekly.

It was also full of beltings each week, even in the top division (and there were waaaaaaaay worse scorelines every week in D2)

 

[insidethevalley]

Not all about the population.
Vermont’s is under 12,000 and would wipe the floor with any of those top 4 listed.

Do I really have to point out the idiotic logic here?

Vermont is in the middle of metro Melbourne. There is literally 1000s of potential footballers within close distance of the club.

Comparing their population to a country town is moronic.

 

[insidethevalley]

It was also full of beltings each week, even in the top division (and there were waaaaaaaay worse scorelines every week in D2)

Woori’s 2s have always been bad. The difference is EVERY ranges club is getting smashed in the reserves each week. None of these country clubs have a chance.