Should Murphy have shirked the contest?

[KnaveyBlue]

Murphy:
82 kg

Hodge:
90 kg

The discrepancy isn't enough to suggest their size mattered in this contest.

LOL that's three weight divisions in boxing - and those guys are only punching each other. This is a full body collision.

It's the equivalent of a cruiserweight hitting a light heavyweight. It definitely matters.

 

[RedLegs#5]

Sorry boys, but for anyone who has played footy, 8 kgs is not the difference between being cleaned up or not if both parties are going in with equal, even semi-equal intensity. Perfect example was when Sandilands and Johnson went at each other a few years back. I've been hit by guys a good 15-20kgs heavier than me. I've come out of it sore at times, sure. Never been completely cleaned up in a contest like that. I've also cleaned up opposition players of this size (mostly fairly ) as I went in with far more intensity. It's not rocket science.

Don't get your backs up against the wall here Carlton fans. I'm not saying Murphy is 'soft'. I'm saying he needs to be harder at the contest though, just in general. As a midfielder (and an in and under one, which he plays as), he'll get cleaned up again otherwise. Guaranteed. Surely you would all agree?

Alves was correct for the most part imo. Of course body angles can got awry, and unlucky things can happen, but more often than not if you're hitting with equal to similar force, you're ok.

 

[bourbons]

Sorry boys, but for anyone who has played footy, 8 kgs is not the difference between being cleaned up or not if both parties are going in with equal, even semi-equal intensity. I've been hit by guys a good 15-20kgs heavier than me. I've come out of it sore at times, sure. I've also cleaned up opposition players of this size (mostly fairly ) as I went in with far more intensity. It's not rocket science.

Don't get your backs up against the wall here Carlton fans. I'm not saying Murphy is 'soft'. I'm saying he needs to be harder at the contest though. He'll get cleaned up again otherwise. Guaranteed. Especially as your captain too. Surely you would all agree? Alves was correct for the most part.

Sorry mate but like I said, you're welcome to your opinion. I've played footy too and would say that 8kg definately makes a difference. Maybe not the difference between being cleaned up or not as you've framed it here, but it's definitely a factor.

Not getting 'my back up against the wall' or anything, just don't agree with Alves in this case. Hindsight is 20-20. Why didn't he make these comments last week, or last month? As I said, Murphy has gone in for plenty of these types of contests since the Dangerfield hit with no problems. Against Hodge he wasn't so lucky. Footy is a tough game, you're going to get cleaned up up occasionally. When those types of collisions occur, the bloke with the smaller body is more likely to come off second best. Its not rocket science.

 

[RedLegs#5]

Sorry mate but like I said, you're welcome to your opinion. I've played footy too and would say that 8kg definately makes a difference. Maybe not the difference between being cleaned up or not as you've framed it here, but it's definitely a factor.

Not getting 'my back up against the wall' or anything, just don't agree with Alves in this case. Hindsight is 20-20. Why didn't he make these comments last week, or last month? As I said, Murphy has gone in for plenty of these types of contests since the Dangerfield hit with no problems. Against Hodge he wasn't so lucky. Footy is a tough game, you're going to get cleaned up up occasionally. When those types of collisions occur, the bloke with the smaller body is more likely to come off second best. Its not rocket science.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Good to have a reasonable discussion though. Murphy is a great player, hard at it, just from what I watch, and through my eyes, not hard enough at it at this point (in regards to the position he chooses to play and the way he wants to play it, as well as being your captain).

Either way, Malthouse will teach him some new tricks no doubt. He's fair, talented, modest, and a footy player I genuinely enjoy watching. If anything I want him to go in harder so as to lesson the chance of these kind of collisions happening again. I still hate Carlton though .

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Murphy was going for the ball regardless of Hodge. Hodge had the foresight to recognise he was going to make contact before he got the ball and protected himself by steeling himself for the contact. Nothing to do with not going in hard enough as a character flaw. Murphy is simply a ball player who ignores potential contact, while Hodge is a ball player who recognises and counts on the contact.

 

[Hens Hall]

Injury-prone Murphy must change tack: Alves

Injury-prone Murphy must change tack: Alves

Should a player be smarter about going in hard if the result is they will miss weeks?

You've got to go in that situation. I wouldn't want to tell Kreuzer, Robinson or whoever that they should stop attacking the ball and playing with intensity.

Don't understand Alves's argument that Murphy is to blame because he doesn't brace for contact. Looks like a normal approach to a contest. He's always going to come off second best against bigger players. Practically calling Murphy soft because he keeps his eyes on the ball. Alves is just another former player like Matthews who played when you could run past the ball and clean players up.

I read it more as a comment on having a poor technique rather than calling him soft.

Kudos to Murphy for keeping his eye on the ball but a better technique would have left him in a better position to avoid injury.

I can't remember the Dangerfield impact but I imagine it would be fairly similar in that he leaves himself wide open rather than turning and going in side on like Hodge did.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I read it more as a comment on having a poor technique rather than calling him soft.

Kudos to Murphy for keeping his eye on the ball but a better technique would have left him in a better position to avoid injury.

This is probably right. Murphy only has eyes for the ball and will wear whatever contact is coming. He is seldom focussing on the opposition and what they might be about to do, because then he runs the risk of taking his eyes off the ball. It's courageous but he's getting monstered out there and a good skipper should have a little bit of mongrel in them as well, not to be dirty, but to take it AND dish it out when there is no other option.

 

[RedLegs#5]

Murphy was going for the ball regardless of Hodge. Hodge had the foresight to recognise he was going to make contact before he got the ball and protected himself by steeling himself for the contact. Nothing to do with not going in hard enough as a character flaw. Murphy is simply a ball player who ignores potential contact, while Hodge is a ball player who recognises and counts on the contact.

The point is, playing his position, he should have recognized by now (I say recognized as he doesn't seem to be inherently intense) the need to go in with intensity into every contest. Hodge will, for the majority of every contest, protect himself by steeling himself for contact. Most of the really great midfielders, and I dare say players, do.

And especially at the start of games, in the first and second quarter. There's perhaps tiredness issues at the end of games...but there's certainly no excuse at the beginning of them.

All will unfold in the future though I guess. If he keeps getting bowled over, there's a definite problem. If not, not.

Hope he recovers quickly.

 

[dumb]

if i remember murphy went in sideways and low against dangerfield anyway. confirm this someone?
sometimes even protecting yourself won't save you from injury anyway. bad luck.

 

[Monkey King]

Sorry boys, but for anyone who has played footy, 8 kgs is not the difference between being cleaned up or not if both parties are going in with equal, even semi-equal intensity.

I've played plenty of footy. Your chances of being cleaned up rise significantly going into a contest with someone 8kg heavier compared to going into one with someone 8kg lighter. It's not the only determining factor, but it is a factor.

For Murphy, he's too clean a player for his own good. He went in for that ball on Friday night almost leaning into it and leading with his head, rather than leading with his hips and getting body over the ball. Hodge went in with an intention to bump his opponent and turned his body for a hard hit, lifting the arm after delivering it. Murphy needs to do likewise and get his body in a better position. It's a contact sport and you have to play expecting heavy contact. Although I don't think this is an endemic problem in his game, it only takes a few incidents like this for it to be an issue.

I think the Dangerfield incident was more one of poor luck than body positioning though.

 

[Roddy]

Weight has little to do with it. The key factor here is that the head was (accidentally) impacted. If it's shoulder to shoulder, yes weight is an issue. Shoulder to jaw, not so much. If Paul Puopolo's shoulder slammed into Aaron Sandiland's jaw at that level of intensity, serious damage would still be done.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

The point is, playing his position, he should have recognized by now (I say recognized as he doesn't seem to be inherently intense) the need to go in with intensity into every contest. Hodge will, for the majority of every contest, protect himself by steeling himself for contact. Most of the really great midfielders, and I dare say players, do.

And especially at the start of games, in the first and second quarter. There's perhaps tiredness issues at the end of games...but there's certainly no excuse at the beginning of them.

All will unfold in the future though I guess. If he keeps getting bowled over, there's a definite problem. If not, not.

Hope he recovers quickly.

Disagree. He goes in with intensity ... for the ball, not the contact he might expect. I doubt he is even thinking about the contact as he is 100% ball. Hodge is more 50% ball, 50% contact (not a slight, love the way he goes about it). You may call it smarter to prepare for that but preparing for contact might also make you miss the ball or get you looked at by the MRP. Perhaps Murphy needs to expect that contact, but there is no question on his intensity in those contests. He's just not thinking the same way and because if his smaller stature is getting destroyed from time to time.

 

[95blues]

Copped a shoulder to the cheek... and people are talking about weight differences?

 

[Hens Hall]

This is probably right. Murphy only has eyes for the ball and will wear whatever contact is coming. He is seldom focussing on the opposition and what they might be about to do, because then he runs the risk of taking his eyes off the ball. It's courageous but he's getting monstered out there and a good skipper should have a little bit of mongrel in them as well, not to be dirty, but to take it AND dish it out when there is no other option.

Yep, see L Hodge.

 

[AlecDuncan]

This is probably right. Murphy only has eyes for the ball and will wear whatever contact is coming.

Did it in his very first game. Sat under the ball in the forward 50, took the hit and won a free for it. I bet his dad and grandfather did the same when they played.

 

[TooFar]

I read it more as a comment on having a poor technique rather than calling him soft.

Kudos to Murphy for keeping his eye on the ball but a better technique would have left him in a better position to avoid injury.

I can't remember the Dangerfield impact but I imagine it would be fairly similar in that he leaves himself wide open rather than turning and going in side on like Hodge did.

If I recall correctly, Murphy went in low and hard with his shoulder against Dangerfield, but still came of second best.

 

[Blue and Silver]

LOL that's three weight divisions in boxing - and those guys are only punching each other. This is a full body collision.

It's the equivalent of a cruiserweight hitting a light heavyweight. It definitely matters.

The weight of a boxer is a crucial component to the amount of power they can produce as boxers maximize the body weight put into each strike through body movement and footwork.

As the saying goes, a great big man will beat a great small man

 

[Hodgepodge]

Murphy did hesitate in the Hodge collision. It was only a slight hesitation vs Hodge who just went at the ball like nobody was in the way.

 

[Hodgepodge]

If I recall correctly, Murphy went in low and hard with his shoulder against Dangerfield, but still came of second best.

True, although he seemed conscious of trying to body Dangerfield, whereas Danger just seemed to be going for the ball.

 

[JustaBattler]

Murphy did hesitate in the Hodge collision. It was only a slight hesitation vs Hodge who just went at the ball like nobody was in the way.

and then you woke up to watch pigs flying around your bedroom and singing sweet melodies too.

 

[95blues]

Murphy did hesitate in the Hodge collision. It was only a slight hesitation vs Hodge who just went at the ball like nobody was in the way.

One wonders why he needed to lead with the shoulder then.

 

[Chewy]

Murphy was going for the ball regardless of Hodge. Hodge had the foresight to recognise he was going to make contact before he got the ball and protected himself by steeling himself for the contact. Nothing to do with not going in hard enough as a character flaw. Murphy is simply a ball player who ignores potential contact, while Hodge is a ball player who recognises and counts on the contact.

These pictures show the 50/50 nature of the contest. The bottom pic shows the subtle (but crucial) difference in the level of commitment. Hodge sticks his head over the ball. Murphy is also over the ball, but he dwells slightly in anticipation of the contact. I'm not saying Murphy is soft by any stretch, but he needs to attack the contest harder and not leave himself wide open like that. He needs to turn slightly and brace for impact. That's not being a "sniper" as some idiots have suggested about Hodge - it's just good technique - you've got to protect yourself, tuck in your chin, lift your shoulders or turn slighty... You've got to have some awareness of oncoming players when attacking the contest.

On the old days, Marc Murphy would be shirtfront and knocked out every weekend if he played like that. The rules prevent this occurring, so he's protected from that, but collisions and incidental still occur. You can't play as if you're in a bubble and you can't get hurt.

 

[95blues]

Looks like Murphy was trying to pick it up and spin out.

 

[bluespooner]

Its probably the first time in Murphy's football career he had a legitimate reason for collapsing on the ground as if he was shot.

 

[gbatman]

This was just an accident, two good players going hard for the footy. There is no more to this. People need to pull their heads in if they think Murphy held back here.