Analysis Should we be pursuing a secondary market post-Hobart? If yes, then where?

[mightymouse75]

You seem keen on it. Great. Buy a 3 game membership and turn up to watch us play GWS, gold Coast and Tassie.

Why wouldn't I. We only ever get 1 game a week

 

[Lomas]

Sorry if I intrude, and I haven't heard anything official, but I honestly don't think it's going to be Perth, I honestly think it'll be Busselton. It makes too much sense.

• You can avoid perceptions of competition unfairness by the other team having a true 12th home game. While WCE/Freo would have a HGA in Busselton, it won't be as strong as Optus, and more palatable. It's arguably no different than North and Dogs playing in Canberra vs. Sydney back in the day when a lot of AFL fans in Canberra at the time were Sydney supporters.
• There's an airport there, you can charter a flight.
• Lets just assume with local government money or something North would be making the same money either way.
• It's still accessible for North and Perth fans who want to drive down. You could still give priority ticketing to WA based North fans ahead of locals, and still have enough tickets for locals.
• There's a model to temporarily upgrade a stadium for not that expensive an amount with what they've done with Mt Barker in Gather Round. They're looking to do it for the Barossa for future Gather Round events. This doesn't have to be a large infrastructure investment
• It is the fastest growing area of WA and the AFL will want to have a presence there strategically. Counting the Bunbury and wider Margaret River region, it's going to be far more critical that, if one or the other, this region (population 200,000 and growing faster in % terms than Perth) gets 1 AFL game as opposed to the 2.2 million population of Perth gets a 23rd game from the 22 it already hosts.
• I would assume that Busselton as a city council would actually want this game, as it justifies their spend in "activating" the region such as investing in the airport in the first place.
• WA government may actually prefer it to simply buying a Perth game, it encourages WA residents to spend their toursim dollars within WA by giving them a reason do drive down or stick around rather than flying off to Bali or whatever.
• If not in Busselton (though this is the more relevant tourism region) a lot of the arguments hold true for flying into Busselton, then driving 45 mins north to Bunbury to play the game there (with a bigger local population).

Although it sounds nice in theory, the WA government won’t invest in the same way SA has for gather rounds. In SA they have the advantage of attracting visitors to drive from Victoria, and maybe fall in love enough to make the drive again without the footy. People don’t make the trek to Margaret river for a mixture of wine and sport.

 

[WesternRoo]

Sorry if I intrude, and I haven't heard anything official, but I honestly don't think it's going to be Perth, I honestly think it'll be Busselton. It makes too much sense.

• You can avoid perceptions of competition unfairness by the other team having a true 12th home game. While WCE/Freo would have a HGA in Busselton, it won't be as strong as Optus, and more palatable. It's arguably no different than North and Dogs playing in Canberra vs. Sydney back in the day when a lot of AFL fans in Canberra at the time were Sydney supporters.
• There's an airport there, you can charter a flight.
• Lets just assume with local government money or something North would be making the same money either way.
• It's still accessible for North and Perth fans who want to drive down. You could still give priority ticketing to WA based North fans ahead of locals, and still have enough tickets for locals.
• There's a model to temporarily upgrade a stadium for not that expensive an amount with what they've done with Mt Barker in Gather Round. They're looking to do it for the Barossa for future Gather Round events. This doesn't have to be a large infrastructure investment
• It is the fastest growing area of WA and the AFL will want to have a presence there strategically. Counting the Bunbury and wider Margaret River region, it's going to be far more critical that, if one or the other, this region (population 200,000 and growing faster in % terms than Perth) gets 1 AFL game as opposed to the 2.2 million population of Perth gets a 23rd game from the 22 it already hosts.
• I would assume that Busselton as a city council would actually want this game, as it justifies their spend in "activating" the region such as investing in the airport in the first place.
• WA government may actually prefer it to simply buying a Perth game, it encourages WA residents to spend their toursim dollars within WA by giving them a reason do drive down or stick around rather than flying off to Bali or whatever.
• If not in Busselton (though this is the more relevant tourism region) a lot of the arguments hold true for flying into Busselton, then driving 45 mins north to Bunbury to play the game there (with a bigger local population).

This is well written, but I’m not sure you are actually being serious?

Busselton is a great part of the state, but cannot see any team flying 4 hours then a 3 hour bus trip each way to play there.

Where would they play there also? There would be faster growing metro regions in Perth than Busselton and I would suggest regional also.

Not to mention Optus is a great facility just south of the river which is 15 mins from the airport and 5 mins from the team hotel.

 

[MrSlippyFist]

This is well written, but I’m not sure you are actually being serious?

Busselton is a great part of the state, but cannot see any team flying 4 hours then a 3 hour bus trip each way to play there.

Where would they play there also? There would be faster growing metro regions in Perth than Busselton and I would suggest regional also.

Not to mention Optus is a great facility just south of the river which is 15 mins from the airport and 5 mins from the team hotel.

Agreed - Optus is a world class stadium. I haven't watched North play in Tas for many, many years, but the appeal of watching them at Optus is far greater even if its a longer flight.

 

[The Warlord]

Sorry if I intrude, and I haven't heard anything official, but I honestly don't think it's going to be Perth, I honestly think it'll be Busselton. It makes too much sense.

• You can avoid perceptions of competition unfairness by the other team having a true 12th home game. While WCE/Freo would have a HGA in Busselton, it won't be as strong as Optus, and more palatable. It's arguably no different than North and Dogs playing in Canberra vs. Sydney back in the day when a lot of AFL fans in Canberra at the time were Sydney supporters.
• There's an airport there, you can charter a flight.
• Lets just assume with local government money or something North would be making the same money either way.
• It's still accessible for North and Perth fans who want to drive down. You could still give priority ticketing to WA based North fans ahead of locals, and still have enough tickets for locals.
• There's a model to temporarily upgrade a stadium for not that expensive an amount with what they've done with Mt Barker in Gather Round. They're looking to do it for the Barossa for future Gather Round events. This doesn't have to be a large infrastructure investment
• It is the fastest growing area of WA and the AFL will want to have a presence there strategically. Counting the Bunbury and wider Margaret River region, it's going to be far more critical that, if one or the other, this region (population 200,000 and growing faster in % terms than Perth) gets 1 AFL game as opposed to the 2.2 million population of Perth gets a 23rd game from the 22 it already hosts.
• I would assume that Busselton as a city council would actually want this game, as it justifies their spend in "activating" the region such as investing in the airport in the first place.
• WA government may actually prefer it to simply buying a Perth game, it encourages WA residents to spend their toursim dollars within WA by giving them a reason do drive down or stick around rather than flying off to Bali or whatever.
• If not in Busselton (though this is the more relevant tourism region) a lot of the arguments hold true for flying into Busselton, then driving 45 mins north to Bunbury to play the game there (with a bigger local population).

Interesting post - good contribution.

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

Sorry if I intrude, and I haven't heard anything official, but I honestly don't think it's going to be Perth, I honestly think it'll be Busselton. It makes too much sense.

• You can avoid perceptions of competition unfairness by the other team having a true 12th home game. While WCE/Freo would have a HGA in Busselton, it won't be as strong as Optus, and more palatable. It's arguably no different than North and Dogs playing in Canberra vs. Sydney back in the day when a lot of AFL fans in Canberra at the time were Sydney supporters.
• There's an airport there, you can charter a flight.
• Lets just assume with local government money or something North would be making the same money either way.
• It's still accessible for North and Perth fans who want to drive down. You could still give priority ticketing to WA based North fans ahead of locals, and still have enough tickets for locals.
• There's a model to temporarily upgrade a stadium for not that expensive an amount with what they've done with Mt Barker in Gather Round. They're looking to do it for the Barossa for future Gather Round events. This doesn't have to be a large infrastructure investment
• It is the fastest growing area of WA and the AFL will want to have a presence there strategically. Counting the Bunbury and wider Margaret River region, it's going to be far more critical that, if one or the other, this region (population 200,000 and growing faster in % terms than Perth) gets 1 AFL game as opposed to the 2.2 million population of Perth gets a 23rd game from the 22 it already hosts.
• I would assume that Busselton as a city council would actually want this game, as it justifies their spend in "activating" the region such as investing in the airport in the first place.
• WA government may actually prefer it to simply buying a Perth game, it encourages WA residents to spend their toursim dollars within WA by giving them a reason do drive down or stick around rather than flying off to Bali or whatever.
• If not in Busselton (though this is the more relevant tourism region) a lot of the arguments hold true for flying into Busselton, then driving 45 mins north to Bunbury to play the game there (with a bigger local population).

Very interesting. What is the population of Bunbury compared to Busselton and which town has the best football ground suited to upgrade for an AFL match?

 

[The Warlord]

Very interesting. What is the population of Bunbury compared to Busselton and which town has the best football ground suited to upgrade for an AFL match?

A poster on this thread was saying Bunbury no

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

A poster on this thread was saying Bunbury no

Yeah either the poster on here or the Seven News report was suggesting Bunbury but old mate threenewpadlocks seems to be having an each way bet on both towns. I assume they are the Bendigo and Ballarat of WA.

 

[WesternRoo]

Very interesting. What is the population of Bunbury compared to Busselton and which town has the best football ground suited to upgrade for an AFL match?

Bunbury has nearly double the population of Busselton and out of the two would certainly be the more appealing (just under 2 hours up the Forrest Hwy).

There isn’t anything in either town that resembles an AFL venue, not really even WAFL standard. Bunbury probably has the better venue if we are splitting hairs.

Bunbury would be 30k smaller than Bendigo and 50k smaller than Ballarat. The areas are growing but they are still pretty regional.

If a regional venue was to be entertained, they would look at Mandurah first and target people commuting from Bunbury (and Busselton) as well as city folk. Rushton Park in Mandurah is probably on par with Mars Stadium in Ballarat.

It’s not a good option either. Unless the WA Government gave us $5,000,000 to make this work in one of these areas I doubt we would even be looking at it.

 

[wolvesRoos]

WA is too far. I go to tassie once every year it's a nice weekend away. U would need a week off to make it worth going to wa

 

[Gasometer]

Perth

It’s happening

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Bunbury has nearly double the population of Busselton and out of the two would certainly be the more appealing (just under 2 hours up the Forrest Hwy).

There isn’t anything in either town that resembles an AFL venue, not really even WAFL standard. Bunbury probably has the better venue if we are splitting hairs.

Bunbury would be 30k smaller than Bendigo and 50k smaller than Ballarat. The areas are growing but they are still pretty regional.

If a regional venue was to be entertained, they would look at Mandurah first and target people commuting from Bunbury (and Busselton) as well as city folk. Rushton Park in Mandurah is probably on par with Mars Stadium in Ballarat.

It’s not a good option either. Unless the WA Government gave us $5,000,000 to make this work in one of these areas I doubt we would even be looking at it.

For what it's worth, I made my original point simply because I of the growth of the region.

The Busselton airport direct flight routes to Melbourne and Sydney are only growing in strength etc:

Sydney to Busselton flights set to boost international tourism in Margaret River, Western Australia - ABC News

amp.abc.net.au

The wider south-west region is the fastest growing tourism region in Australia: https://www.amrtimes.com.au/news/au...ountry-tourism-region-in-australia-c-12482595

What you said now may be true today, but things can move very quickly. If the rate of growth continues in the region, the tourism flights to the east coast continue to grow and be successful, and demand for the region (as shown by 20% growth in property prices), this can only lead to a desire for the region to host an AFL game in the near future. It might not have the facilities now but with money flowing into the region, it's almost inevitable that it will in the future.

Ultimately, we're talking about decisions North has to make in 2027/28, not 2025. And the rate of growth for the region since post-Covid, from 2022 to 2024 has been immense. One can only assume 2027 in the region will look far different than 2024.

 

[Hojuman]

Perth

It’s happening

Wait till Samsquash posts the gif, yeh ?
Then you can go ape.

 

[koshari]

Agreed - Optus is a world class stadium. I haven't watched North play in Tas for many, many years, but the appeal of watching them at Optus is far greater even if its a longer flight.

Great ground, watched the final round game between freo and port there.

 

[WesternRoo]

For what it's worth, I made my original point simply because I of the growth of the region.

The Busselton airport direct flight routes to Melbourne and Sydney are only growing in strength etc:

Sydney to Busselton flights set to boost international tourism in Margaret River, Western Australia - ABC News

amp.abc.net.au

The wider south-west region is the fastest growing tourism region in Australia: https://www.amrtimes.com.au/news/au...ountry-tourism-region-in-australia-c-12482595

What you said now may be true today, but things can move very quickly. If the rate of growth continues in the region, the tourism flights to the east coast continue to grow and be successful, and demand for the region (as shown by 20% growth in property prices), this can only lead to a desire for the region to host an AFL game in the near future. It might not have the facilities now but with money flowing into the region, it's almost inevitable that it will in the future.

Ultimately, we're talking about decisions North has to make in 2027/28, not 2025. And the rate of growth for the region since post-Covid, from 2022 to 2024 has been immense. One can only assume 2027 in the region will look far different than 2024.

Fair enough. It’s a great part of the world and this may be a 2030 conversation if the AFL is looking at its 20th licence.

Don’t think it’s viable for a lot of reasons as a location to sell games to. Plus the Eagles and Dockers are trying to decrease travel, this doesn’t really do that.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

if the AFL is looking at its 20th licence.

Presumably they would want to play games there - even if it's only in a 10,000 capacity ground or whatever - before they determine that. Get a bit of a feel for the local vibes of AFL. If they struggle to sell tickets they can pull out after a year or two or at least have a datapoint for future activities.

Getting a stadium up to speed to host that little shouldn't be that much of an issue. - Mt Barker and Traeger Park host AFL games and meet minimum standards, for instance.

It'll cost a couple of tens of millions but presumably an upgraded stadium that could host AFL games would also help service/drive other tourism-related activities including other sports events (carnivals or whatever) or whatever else you can do with upgraded facilities on a big oval.

Plus the Eagles and Dockers are trying to decrease travel, this doesn’t really do that.

I agree a bus trip for them is a bit more travel than another game in Perth, but it's still less travel than the alternative theoretical away fixture against North somewhere in an eastern state.

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

Fair enough. It’s a great part of the world and this may be a 2030 conversation if the AFL is looking at its 20th licence.

Don’t think it’s viable for a lot of reasons as a location to sell games to. Plus the Eagles and Dockers are trying to decrease travel, this doesn’t really do that.

If an annual game in SW WA was included as part of the deal then there’s no way we’d play the WA clubs down there over Optus. We’d mainly play interstate clubs that wouldn’t draw good crowds back in Melbourne. An added benefit of this would be not giving up a home ground advantage to local teams for both of our WA home games each season. Potentially, it could work something like this:

Year 1
R12 - North v West Coast @ Optus
R13 - North v Port Adelaide @ Bunbury

Year 2
R13 - North v Freo @ Optus
R14 - North v Gold Coast @ Bunbury

We’d make a huge profit from the games at Optus due to the crowds, and potentially, could make a profit at the games in Bunbury due to a sponsorship with WA Tourism. Play the games on consecutive weeks to limit our travel.

If they played the Bunbury game on a bye week then it might even be a standalone WA fixture that weekend, ensuring fans from the competing clubs travel in from two states, as well as more down from Perth (e.g. R14 this year when WCE had a bye and Freo played away) creating a tourism boon for the region.

The airport is at Busselton, but I think that Hands Oval in Bunbury would be the most likely venue. It’s a bigger city, is closer to Perth, and has had a recent upgrade with new grandstand an AFL-standard changerooms.

Hands Oval | Austadiums

Information about Hands Oval in Bunbury including venue layout, history, records, events, map, tickets, directions and accommodation.

www.austadiums.com

 

[krakouers]

If an annual game in SW WA was included as part of the deal then there’s no way we’d play the WA clubs down there over Optus. We’d mainly play interstate clubs that wouldn’t draw good crowds back in Melbourne. An added benefit of this would be not giving up a home ground advantage to local teams for both of our WA home games each season. Potentially, it could work something like this:

Year 1
R12 - North v West Coast @ Optus
R13 - North v Port Adelaide @ Bunbury

Year 2
R13 - North v Freo @ Optus
R14 - North v Gold Coast @ Bunbury

We’d make a huge profit from the games at Optus due to the crowds, and potentially, could make a profit at the games in Bunbury due to a sponsorship with WA Tourism. Play the games on consecutive weeks to limit our travel.

If they played the Bunbury game on a bye week then it might even be a standalone WA fixture that weekend, ensuring fans from the competing clubs travel in from two states, as well as more down from Perth (e.g. R14 this year when WCE had a bye and Freo played away) creating a tourism boon for the region.

The airport is at Busselton, but I think that Hands Oval in Bunbury would be the most likely venue. It’s a bigger city, is closer to Perth, and has had a recent upgrade with new grandstand an AFL-standard changerooms.

Hands Oval | Austadiums

Information about Hands Oval in Bunbury including venue layout, history, records, events, map, tickets, directions and accommodation.

www.austadiums.com

Port Adelaide in Bunbury….
Would be a brave man to be a policeman there that day…

 

[Outtatym]

What's the pass mark for a crowd at marvel these days? I remember the discussion once the league bought the joint it was supposed to make our profitability much easier.

What would we realistically need every week to get all our games back in Melbourne? 30k?

 

[krakouers]

What's the pass mark for a crowd at marvel these days? I remember the discussion once the league bought the joint it was supposed to make our profitability much easier.

What would we realistically need every week to get all our games back in Melbourne? 30k?

Averages:

AFL Tables - North Melbourne - Crowds

Just some simple review (as can’t find the breakdown for North at home in Docklands attendance ) but it would seem we aren’t that far off taking into account our lower attendances in Tassie

 

[Cunnington Cartel]

Averages:

AFL Tables - North Melbourne - Crowds

Just some simple review (as can’t find the breakdown for North at home in Docklands attendance ) but it would seem we aren’t that far off taking into account our lower attendances in Tassie

Marvel attendance this year was 30,680. The Hobart fixtures included games against Adelaide, Port and West Coast though, which would have dragged the Marvel average down a bit. Despite that, they’re pretty encouraging numbers. Having the Good Friday game against Carlton has obviously been great for the average as well.

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

WA is too far. I go to tassie once every year it's a nice weekend away. U would need a week off to make it worth going to wa

Surely that's the idea when state tourism agencies spend millions to buy sports events, they hope people will stay for more than a day or a weekend.

 

[Colby Cheer Squad]

Marvel attendance this year was 30,680. The Hobart fixtures included games against Adelaide, Port and West Coast though, which would have dragged the Marvel average down a bit. Despite that, they’re pretty encouraging numbers. Having the Good Friday game against Carlton has obviously been great for the average as well.

Average crowd would be a misleading figure. If we only make money on crowds over 30,000, and the average is inflated by one or two games, then we aren't easily replacing the $2.5 million from Tasmania. Last year we had 3 home games over 30,000 and this year it was 4 games. Bringing the 4 games back from Hobart to Docklands is not going to be 4 more games over 30,000.