Should we have more states?

Should more states be created?

  • Yes

    Votes: 9 39.1%
  • No

    Votes: 14 60.9%

  • Total voters
    23

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Johnny Bananas

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I used to be one of those people who wanted to abolish states altogether, since I identify much more with my city than my state, and I felt the rest of Queensland was holding Brisbane back from having a more progressive approach to health, education, justice etc. For their part, people in country areas have long bemoaned being ruled from their nearest capital city.

Then Covid happened, and it was useful to have states with the power to shut their borders to contain the spread of the virus. I realised that there's no way states are going away after that, no matter how ineffective or disdained they are.

So that got me thinking, if people feel their states aren't properly representative of them, is the answer to have more states that are smaller, at least on the east coast where there's the population to support them? Major cities and their surrounds could have laws reflecting the progressive mindset of their residents, and country areas that secede could keep more of the wealth they believe is unjustly taken from them by the major cities (not that I agree with their views, but that's how they seem to look at the world).

But, you might ask, do we really want to carve out a new state and give it as much Senate representation as the existing states have? Not an issue. Section 7 of the constitution says that it's only the original states (at Federation) that are entitled to an equal number of senators. Any new state can be given as few senators as the federal parliament wants them to have. (Interestingly, the constitution also says the Queensland parliament can create its own internal divisions and have each one elect its own senators, but this has never been put into practice).

So where would these new states go? Well, the Mad Katter has been demanding separation for North Queensland for a good while now in his usual cranky manner. As a progressive southern Queenslander, I'd be only too happy to give him what he wants and wish him bon voyage. He can have Mackay and its coalfields too, since they'll be a lot less useful for tax revenue in future as the world switches to renewables.

Another promising candidate I've seen was suggested a few years back by Victorian MP Tim Quilty: Greater Melbourne and Geelong become one state, Greater Sydney (probably including the Central Coast and Illawarra, maybe the Hunter) becomes another state, the remainder of NSW and Victoria merges to become a third state. He has another idea of just merging northern Victoria and southern NSW to be a third state, although this would have a lower population.


What do you think? More states, or is the status quo just fine?
 
I used to be one of those people who wanted to abolish states altogether, since I identify much more with my city than my state, and I felt the rest of Queensland was holding Brisbane back from having a more progressive approach to health, education, justice etc. For their part, people in country areas have long bemoaned being ruled from their nearest capital city.

Then Covid happened, and it was useful to have states with the power to shut their borders to contain the spread of the virus. I realised that there's no way states are going away after that, no matter how ineffective or disdained they are.

So that got me thinking, if people feel their states aren't properly representative of them, is the answer to have more states that are smaller, at least on the east coast where there's the population to support them? Major cities and their surrounds could have laws reflecting the progressive mindset of their residents, and country areas that secede could keep more of the wealth they believe is unjustly taken from them by the major cities (not that I agree with their views, but that's how they seem to look at the world).

But, you might ask, do we really want to carve out a new state and give it as much Senate representation as the existing states have? Not an issue. Section 7 of the constitution says that it's only the original states (at Federation) that are entitled to an equal number of senators. Any new state can be given as few senators as the federal parliament wants them to have. (Interestingly, the constitution also says the Queensland parliament can create its own internal divisions and have each one elect its own senators, but this has never been put into practice).

So where would these new states go? Well, the Mad Katter has been demanding separation for North Queensland for a good while now in his usual cranky manner. As a progressive southern Queenslander, I'd be only too happy to give him what he wants and wish him bon voyage. He can have Mackay and its coalfields too, since they'll be a lot less useful for tax revenue in future as the world switches to renewables.

Another promising candidate I've seen was suggested a few years back by Victorian MP Tim Quilty: Greater Melbourne and Geelong become one state, Greater Sydney (probably including the Central Coast and Illawarra, maybe the Hunter) becomes another state, the remainder of NSW and Victoria merges to become a third state. He has another idea of just merging northern Victoria and southern NSW to be a third state, although this would have a lower population.


What do you think? More states, or is the status quo just fine?
Make the ACT just a council within NSW and give its two senators to the NT. Canberra already has too much influence and it is just a city.

After that, scrap the councils - saves money to reinvest in services and avoids confusion/blame dodging between councils and local members.

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Make the ACT just a council within NSW and give its two senators to the NT. Canberra already has too much influence and it is just a city.
Please explain. How have the interests of people living in Canberra been replicated in national policy?

After that, scrap the councils - saves money to reinvest in services and avoids confusion/blame dodging between councils and local members.
Councils give people a say over how their local area is shaped and how it develops. Why take away the facet of government that is closest to the people? It seems anti-democratic.
 

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I used to be one of those people who wanted to abolish states altogether, since I identify much more with my city than my state, and I felt the rest of Queensland was holding Brisbane back from having a more progressive approach to health, education, justice etc. For their part, people in country areas have long bemoaned being ruled from their nearest capital city.

Then Covid happened, and it was useful to have states with the power to shut their borders to contain the spread of the virus. I realised that there's no way states are going away after that, no matter how ineffective or disdained they are.

So that got me thinking, if people feel their states aren't properly representative of them, is the answer to have more states that are smaller, at least on the east coast where there's the population to support them? Major cities and their surrounds could have laws reflecting the progressive mindset of their residents, and country areas that secede could keep more of the wealth they believe is unjustly taken from them by the major cities (not that I agree with their views, but that's how they seem to look at the world).

But, you might ask, do we really want to carve out a new state and give it as much Senate representation as the existing states have? Not an issue. Section 7 of the constitution says that it's only the original states (at Federation) that are entitled to an equal number of senators. Any new state can be given as few senators as the federal parliament wants them to have. (Interestingly, the constitution also says the Queensland parliament can create its own internal divisions and have each one elect its own senators, but this has never been put into practice).

So where would these new states go? Well, the Mad Katter has been demanding separation for North Queensland for a good while now in his usual cranky manner. As a progressive southern Queenslander, I'd be only too happy to give him what he wants and wish him bon voyage. He can have Mackay and its coalfields too, since they'll be a lot less useful for tax revenue in future as the world switches to renewables.

Another promising candidate I've seen was suggested a few years back by Victorian MP Tim Quilty: Greater Melbourne and Geelong become one state, Greater Sydney (probably including the Central Coast and Illawarra, maybe the Hunter) becomes another state, the remainder of NSW and Victoria merges to become a third state. He has another idea of just merging northern Victoria and southern NSW to be a third state, although this would have a lower population.


What do you think? More states, or is the status quo just fine?
The demand for new states or change to the status quo seems virtually non-existent, no? I've heard about a North Queensland state discussed in the news maybe twice since Bob Katter became relevant in 2010 but the idea never seems to gain enough traction to be taken seriously.

Tim Quilty's idea though - not sure what problem this is trying to solve? The only benefit I can see coming from this is that Melbourne and Sydney are free to run their own budgets without having to pay for the provision of services and infrastructure to the regions. I have never encountered anyone in regional Vic or NSW that wanted their own state separate from Melbourne or Sydney. I don't even think there's a net saving to be enjoyed by anyone as the regional states would become a new Tasmania and need to be propped up by GST revenue at the expense of the financially productive states.
 
I used to be one of those people who wanted to abolish states altogether, since I identify much more with my city than my state, and I felt the rest of Queensland was holding Brisbane back from having a more progressive approach to health, education, justice etc. For their part, people in country areas have long bemoaned being ruled from their nearest capital city.

Then Covid happened, and it was useful to have states with the power to shut their borders to contain the spread of the virus. I realised that there's no way states are going away after that, no matter how ineffective or disdained they are.

So that got me thinking, if people feel their states aren't properly representative of them, is the answer to have more states that are smaller, at least on the east coast where there's the population to support them? Major cities and their surrounds could have laws reflecting the progressive mindset of their residents, and country areas that secede could keep more of the wealth they believe is unjustly taken from them by the major cities (not that I agree with their views, but that's how they seem to look at the world).

But, you might ask, do we really want to carve out a new state and give it as much Senate representation as the existing states have? Not an issue. Section 7 of the constitution says that it's only the original states (at Federation) that are entitled to an equal number of senators. Any new state can be given as few senators as the federal parliament wants them to have. (Interestingly, the constitution also says the Queensland parliament can create its own internal divisions and have each one elect its own senators, but this has never been put into practice).

So where would these new states go? Well, the Mad Katter has been demanding separation for North Queensland for a good while now in his usual cranky manner. As a progressive southern Queenslander, I'd be only too happy to give him what he wants and wish him bon voyage. He can have Mackay and its coalfields too, since they'll be a lot less useful for tax revenue in future as the world switches to renewables.

Another promising candidate I've seen was suggested a few years back by Victorian MP Tim Quilty: Greater Melbourne and Geelong become one state, Greater Sydney (probably including the Central Coast and Illawarra, maybe the Hunter) becomes another state, the remainder of NSW and Victoria merges to become a third state. He has another idea of just merging northern Victoria and southern NSW to be a third state, although this would have a lower population.


What do you think? More states, or is the status quo just fine?

Quilty's plan has NSW and Vic without Sydney and Melbourne. That "state" would be incredibly poor. Our populations and wealth are so concentrated in capital cities.
 
Quilty's plan has NSW and Vic without Sydney and Melbourne. That "state" would be incredibly poor. Our populations and wealth are so concentrated in capital cities.

Yep, remove any capital from the state and you'd ruin them.
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I voted for yes....

I dont think it will happen in my life time though.

Population right now is 26 million. I am curious how it all pans out when theres 50 million people here.

WAs population is 2.6 million while SAs population is 1.6 million. WAs population will hit 3 million before SAs population hits 2 million.

Hell, I wont be suprised if WAs population hits 5 or even 6 million before SA hits 3 million.

I look at NSW for example... There is 8 million people there. 2-3 million live in Western NSW, Which is a stretch of 60-100 kms.

Could you Divide NSW in 2 or 3 different states? I dont know.

Theres 5 million in Queensland. North Queensland has Townsville and Carins. Would North Queenland want to become its own state?
 
New England was thrown around as potential state at some stage. It includes the Hunter region and elsewhere.

Perhaps the NT amalgamating with the north of WA could be a state - just draw a line continuing from SA northern border. would be the state with the largest area and smallest population. but should have a few good mineral resources at their disposal.
 
Either scrap state governments or scrap local ones and have an increased number of smaller state governments.

Agree on a formula like that. However, as an example, Albury and Wodonga should form a small 'state' govt given their proximity. Good luck getting Vic or NSW to agree to redrawn existing state boundaries though! The whole Murray twin town pairs would be a metaphorical battleground, irrespective of political allegiance.
 
Agree on a formula like that. However, as an example, Albury and Wodonga should form a small 'state' govt given their proximity. Good luck getting Vic or NSW to agree to redrawn existing state boundaries though! The whole Murray twin town pairs would be a metaphorical battleground, irrespective of political allegiance.
We all know the Murrumbidgee should be the true border. Thievin' NSW bastards

Reinstate the January 1840 Border NOW!!!
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Either scrap state governments or scrap local ones and have an increased number of smaller state governments.
Makes more sense to scrap the Feds than the states. The states are the ones actually doing things. But then the local ones are the only ones that understand what's relevant locally. Yeah **** it, axe the feds, maybe come up with some kind of defence agreement between states and call it a day.
 
I've always hated having 2 major parties going back and forth slowing down our improvement as a society. If all the RWNJ's could go to one state that would be amazing. The rest of the country would be progressive and catapult their advancement whilst the RWNJ state would eventually collapse as they would be grifting off each other and have no cheap labour to abuse. They would also have nothing left to complain and have fake outrage about.

Trillions have flowed through our country in the last 10 years and we have literally nothing to show for it. Life is still essentially the same as it was in 2014. At least here in Vic it still isn't perfect but at least we have level crossing removals, metro tunnel etc to show how far we have come from 10 years ago.
 
New England was thrown around as potential state at some stage. It includes the Hunter region and elsewhere.

Perhaps the NT amalgamating with the north of WA could be a state - just draw a line continuing from SA northern border. would be the state with the largest area and smallest population. but should have a few good mineral resources at their disposal.
King Barnaby to reign supreme over his kingdom of New England
 
New England was thrown around as potential state at some stage. It includes the Hunter region and elsewhere.

Perhaps the NT amalgamating with the north of WA could be a state - just draw a line continuing from SA northern border. would be the state with the largest area and smallest population. but should have a few good mineral resources at their disposal.

you could divide WA into 2 or 3 or even 4 different states can you?
 
we already have far too much government. Scrap the ACT government and replace it with a few NSW councils. The two senators cut go to the NT to give them the same period in office and the NT more representation. A couple of thousand jobs would be saved by cutting the ACT government that can be put into service delivery in health, education and centrelink

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I used to be one of those people who wanted to abolish states altogether, since I identify much more with my city than my state, and I felt the rest of Queensland was holding Brisbane back from having a more progressive approach to health, education, justice etc. For their part, people in country areas have long bemoaned being ruled from their nearest capital city.

Then Covid happened, and it was useful to have states with the power to shut their borders to contain the spread of the virus. I realised that there's no way states are going away after that, no matter how ineffective or disdained they are.

So that got me thinking, if people feel their states aren't properly representative of them, is the answer to have more states that are smaller, at least on the east coast where there's the population to support them? Major cities and their surrounds could have laws reflecting the progressive mindset of their residents, and country areas that secede could keep more of the wealth they believe is unjustly taken from them by the major cities (not that I agree with their views, but that's how they seem to look at the world).

But, you might ask, do we really want to carve out a new state and give it as much Senate representation as the existing states have? Not an issue. Section 7 of the constitution says that it's only the original states (at Federation) that are entitled to an equal number of senators. Any new state can be given as few senators as the federal parliament wants them to have. (Interestingly, the constitution also says the Queensland parliament can create its own internal divisions and have each one elect its own senators, but this has never been put into practice).

So where would these new states go? Well, the Mad Katter has been demanding separation for North Queensland for a good while now in his usual cranky manner. As a progressive southern Queenslander, I'd be only too happy to give him what he wants and wish him bon voyage. He can have Mackay and its coalfields too, since they'll be a lot less useful for tax revenue in future as the world switches to renewables.

Another promising candidate I've seen was suggested a few years back by Victorian MP Tim Quilty: Greater Melbourne and Geelong become one state, Greater Sydney (probably including the Central Coast and Illawarra, maybe the Hunter) becomes another state, the remainder of NSW and Victoria merges to become a third state. He has another idea of just merging northern Victoria and southern NSW to be a third state, although this would have a lower population.


What do you think? More states, or is the status quo just fine?
Nth queensland can eff off.

Then we can get daylight savings.
 

1967 New England statehood referendum​




From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1967 Australian creation of the New England state referendum
Results
50px-Flag_of_New_South_Wales.svg.png


29 April 1967

Are you in favour of the establishment of a new State in north-east New South Wales described in schedule 1 to the New State Referendum Act, 1966 ?
ChoiceVotes%
14px-Check-71-128-204-brightblue.svg.png
Yes
168,10345.82%
14px-Light_brown_x.svg.png
No
198,81254.18%
Valid votes366,91594.54%
Invalid or blank votes21,1945.46%
Total votes388,109100.00%
A referendum concerning the creation of a new state of New England from the northern area of New South Wales was put to voters on 29 April 1967.

Background​

[edit source]
These paragraphs are an excerpt from New England New State Movement § New state agitation.[edit]
The first separatist agitation occurred during colonial times at the time of the separation of Queensland from NSW. While this was followed by outbreaks of agitation, these remained sporadic. Well-organised 'Separation Leagues' existed at both Glen Innes and Grafton in the late 1880s,[1] but did not make progress.
This changed in the twentieth century. Agitation began again at Grafton towards the end of the First World War led by Earle Page, a local doctor and later a prominent politician, rising to caretaker Prime Minister of Australia. This was picked up a little later by Victor Thompson, editor of the Tamworth Northern Daily Leader who launched a sustained newspaper campaign that involved papers as far south as Cessnock in the lower Hunter. This led to the creation of a formal movement. In 1922 a formal request to the Commonwealth was made by the lower house to establish a new state in northern New South Wales.[2] One outcome was the 1924 Cohen Royal Commission into New States.
The Cohen Commission ruled against to the movement and it went into decline, resurging at the start of the Great Depression.[3] This forced another Royal Commission, the Nicholas Commission. While this recommended in favour,[4] the movement was again in decline as economic conditions improved.
Agitation started again at the end of the Second World War and this time was sustained by permanent staff. In 1953, 21 councils defied the state government and held unofficial referendum on the issue of a new state. The people voted overwhelmingly in favour of the referendum.[5] In 1961 the movement launched Operation Seventh State,[6] raising over AU£100,000. This allowed more staff and greater agitation.
This acceptance of boundaries determined by the Nicholas Commission proved to be the movement's critical strategic error. It assumed that a state was not viable unless it was dominated by a large urban population on the English/London model. Yet, the evidence from similar federations like Canada and the USA revealed numerous successful "farm states", like Wyoming, Montana and the Dakotas, with comparatively small capital city populations tied to a single, essentially rural community of interest. This metrocentric mindset ensured that two quite distinct communities of interest were being pressured into a doomed arranged marriage. It was also the very antithesis of an "act of free choice" as that choice involved imposing a majority rural will over a geographically distinct urban community. A new state proposal based in most part on boundaries formed by those Local Councils with majorities that actually wanted the change would have acquired a critical momentum.
Premier Robert Askin and the Cabinet believed in 1966 that a secession referendum would win, so they had the upper Hunter Region and Newcastle included within the boundaries of the proposed new state before putting it to a vote.[5]

The question​

[edit source]
Are you in favour of the establishment of a new state in north-east New South Wales as described in Schedule One to the New State Referendum Act, 1966?[7]
The area included by the proposed new state consists of
 

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