Analysis Should we really be spewing over trading out our 2021 picks?

[lenny&carl]

Yeah 100%

The easy lazy option which would give them a short term PR boost after the horror show and credit to them it worked out exactly how they wanted now all the blame of trading pick 2 can be put on the previous team.

Far out.

 

[magpies42]

Delusional. Get a grip. This ideal of jsut vecause collingwood wants a deal that other clubs will fail over themsalves to oblidge,

Traded it for any player in the league.
(a) No, most good players are not aviable,
(b) And how would we pay teh salary cap of getting a good player in.

Trading for Future 1st Rounder traded readed back into this years draft,
(a) that is a leap of justified faith, a plan the relies on two trades going very smoothly,
(b) you'll lose a bit on each of those trades, if collingwod is driving these deals otehr clubs will wantycollingwood bears the risk, future pick trading is always with risk,
(c) why? If next years drfat is stronger might be well better off stauingin that drfat rather than trading.

Are you drunk?

 

[pugsville]

Are you drunk?

NO.

 

[magpies42]

NO.

Interesting

 

[Ugene41]

You do also realise that the salary to get Parker would be more than the salary required for Dawson and Stephen combined, as well as some left over.

And a tip on list sizes, if you got Parker rather than Dawson / Stephens (usual caveat for you.. as an example), you'd also need someone else so in total you're looking at $1m for Parker and ? as opposed to $750k-$800k for Dawson / Stephens. So substantial difference there

Thanks for the chess example Karpov. Such a strategist. But you're the one who is fixated on needing to trade out our Pick 2 and you are happy with Poulter and McMahon. Enjoy wearing their badges.

I'm not going to waste my time responding to you anymore given you just don't acknowledge, ask for end game examples and then disregard them - so please feel free to respond, but that's it from my end.

Parker wants $750k p.a. and add in Poulter's draftee salary of $100k and you're at $850k vs $800k for Dawson/Stephens. Hardly a substantial difference. And if that's still too much why don't we go for Matt Crouch as FA instead? He's on $700k so then there's no difference. Previous All Australian Crouch plus Poulter again is a better outcome than Dawson / Stephens for pick 2 plus salary cap space.

lol how have I disregarded your end game examples? I've painstakingly entertained every one of them despite how unrealistic they are and broken them down to show you how you can still achieve a better outcome after trading our pick 2 last year than the options you raised. Why else would I even bother entertaining the option of trading pick 2 for players this year when it's clear we don't have the salary cap space to do so. If we did, the real question should be why we had to trade Treloar/Stephenson last year if we're just going to trade lesser quality players back in and use a higher draft pick to do so.

Anyway it's clear that you can't see two steps ahead of your own feet no matter how much I lay it out in front of you so I'm glad we're done.

 

[Anzacday]

 

[Carringbush2010]

As I said you can keep blaming and being outraged or you can move on with what we have, Eddie is gone, Bucks is gone, Walsh is gone, Ned is gone. We all get what happened last year was cr@p, it wasn't managed well, it's time for acceptance and time to move on. We don't have pick 2 anymore but we will get the best kid in the draft (IMHO)

Are you suggesting that those who wish to vent do not? Is this not a forum for that exact purpose (among others)?

I can understand the "what's done is done, let's move on" mantra.

However no amount of sticking ones fingers in ones ear screaming la la la la to oneself is going to change the fact the club fkd up and fkd up badly - really really badly!

This whole thread is a premise of trying to make the least worst of a very bad situation. No offence 76woodenspooners

Yeah we all know the culprits are gone, in other news water is wet. Doesn't change the fact the Pie fans are not robots and have every right to vent and this is the place for it. And yes I acknowledge that no amount of venting will improve the situation just as much you and others who advocate the 'stop whining' need to accept others right to vent.

 

[Robroy22]

Ok....so if we establish this is just a "Venting" thread....then that's cool. Vent away.
No discussion necessary.

have a nice day all

 

[76woodenspooners]

This whole thread is a premise of trying to make the least worst of a very bad situation. No offence 76woodenspooners

None taken.

I am genuinely tickle pink with how things have turned out.

I appreciate the counter arguments that some folks have made, so I get why not everyone sees it the way I do.

You change one decision, no matter how small, and nobody can guess to any level of certainty what the compounding effects of that one decision are. Butterfly effect and all that.

 

[regpies]

You lost me at your first sentence again.....you’re failing to grasp how this points thing works.

Do you? So you’re saying right now we have enough points with the pics we have now to get Daicos if there’s a bid on him at pick 1/2?

 

[regpies]

Read my scenarios above. Even trading pick 2 for Richmond's pick 7 and 16 isn't enough to cover a Daicos bid without having pick 7 completely swallowed up and pick 16 pushed back to pick 50. We're then left with pick 33, pick 39 and pick 50 as our draft hand this year. Not sure how that's better than having pick 30/31 last year and no picks this year after matching Daicos.

Try actually calculating the points values to these picks and the amount needed to match Daicos. It's going to be pretty hard to get the points needed without it inevitably eating into the value of our original pick 2. Which is why our actual pick 2 trade was used to help us get an additional 800-900 points to be used this year in addition to Poulter/McMahon.

Gee Ned Guy seems to be busy with all the fake accounts trying to defend his disastrous trading.

Find me someone in AFL football, aside from No idea Ned, that would trade pick 2 for Poulter, McMahon and 800pts, which is a couple 3rd round picks. That still leaves us short on points for Daicos.

It was a pile of shit trade last year and it’s turned out even worse this year.

 

[Horaceg]

Next year is a new year, I'm looking forward to the reset and move forward from the obvious divisions that are apparent and looking forward to a time when we can all get behind our Club.

In reality it's probably more of the same, some positivity, some excitement but mostly a continuing mix of varying levels of outrage and blame.

Are you suggesting that those who wish to vent do not? Is this not a forum for that exact purpose (among others)?

I can understand the "what's done is done, let's move on" mantra.

However no amount of sticking ones fingers in ones ear screaming la la la la to oneself is going to change the fact the club fkd up and fkd up badly - really really badly!

This whole thread is a premise of trying to make the least worst of a very bad situation. No offence 76woodenspooners

Yeah we all know the culprits are gone, in other news water is wet. Doesn't change the fact the Pie fans are not robots and have every right to vent and this is the place for it. And yes I acknowledge that no amount of venting will improve the situation just as much you and others who advocate the 'stop whining' need to accept others right to vent.

I”m not saying don’t vent, there is enough to be positive about, new era and no one left to blame, unless you want to give it to Neil, the boot studder or was he to blame and moved on as well.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Next year is a new year, I'm looking forward to the reset and move forward from the obvious divisions that are apparent and looking forward to a time when we can all get behind our Club.

In reality it's probably more of the same, some positivity, some excitement but mostly a continuing mix of varying levels of outrage and blame.

I”m not saying don’t vent, there is enough to be positive about, new era and no one left to blame, unless you want to give it to Neil, the boot studder or was he to blame and moved on as well.

But you are saying don't vent, or at the very least suggesting no one should, you're suggesting 'everyone move on'.

Apologies but not many of us here share your or the op's optimism, again this thread is we already know the situation. It's an attempt to polish a turd to something barely adequate.

If you and others see it that way (or even better) than good for you.

Let the rest of pile on those a**holes that bent the club over and have now left, club can never and should never ever be forgiven for that debacle.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Gee Ned Guy seems to be busy with all the fake accounts trying to defend his disastrous trading.

The pick swaps made on draft day would have been Derek Hine’s handiwork?

 

[Horaceg]

But you are saying don't vent, or at the very least suggesting no one should, you're suggesting 'everyone move on'.

Apologies but not many of us here share your or the op's optimism, again this thread is we already know the situation. It's an attempt to polish a turd to something barely adequate.

If you and others see it that way (or even better) than good for you.

Let the rest of pile on those a**holes that bent the club over and have now left, club can never and should never ever be forgiven for that debacle.

I don’t think I ever said not to vent, they are your words or your interpretation, it’s healthy it’s normal and as you mentioned part of these threads. What I am saying is that as supporters and in most cases members that want to see a well managed Football Club and should be seeing the changing of the guard in a positive light. We still have the Board issues coming to a head but beyond that a new group to take the Club forward. I have faith that Graham Wright is sorting what is within his control, the operations and rebuild of the football department.

 

[Anzacday]

Horaceg some people need to vent over everything and struggle to move on.
Reminds me of the time I bought a bag of onions as they were cheaper than the loose ones.
I soon realised they bag up the crap onions.
Every time I buy onions or even walk past them I am reminded of that.
I’m not sure if I will ever really get over it.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I don’t think I ever said not to vent, they are your words or your interpretation, it’s healthy it’s normal and as you mentioned part of these threads. What I am saying is that as supporters and in most cases members that want to see a well managed Football Club and should be seeing the changing of the guard in a positive light. We still have the Board issues coming to a head but beyond that a new group to take the Club forward. I have faith that Graham Wright is sorting what is within his control, the operations and rebuild of the football department.

I didn't say you 'said', but you did suggest it with the 'what's done is done' mantra.

Anyways not going to go down a rabbit hole of what you said I said.

No one is arguing with the bulk of your post, it's well known, the problem is the finally functioning properly is too late now. We have to pray like hell the blose and the bomb outs don't flag before us lest they get ahead by another flag and it's unlikely we'll get there before them - that's the thing the grates, because what the club had control of they fkd it up and may have cost no. 16 or even 17.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Horaceg some people need to vent over everything and struggle to move on.
Reminds me of the time I bought a bag of onions as they were cheaper than the loose ones.
I soon realised they bag up the crap onions.
Every time I buy onions or even walk past them I am reminded of that.
I’m not sure if I will ever really get over it.

Ok AD nice lil dig at me, but this is hardly a bag of onions. I'd hope you'd think more passionately of the club than a bag of onions.

 

[Horaceg]

Horaceg some people need to vent over everything and struggle to move on.
Reminds me of the time I bought a bag of onions as they were cheaper than the loose ones.
I soon realised they bag up the crap onions.
Every time I buy onions or even walk past them I am reminded of that.
I’m not sure if I will ever really get over it.

A football Club is a bit like an onion many layers to it, they can even make you cry.

 

[jonmacTrag]

Look it comes down to a simple equation - when push came to shove we were left with a bunch of middling to nothing pics.

What is the best chance of maximizing returns on them?

In a compromised draft where huge numbers of potential draftees had no final year to display their wares of course.

Under those circumstances it comes down to a judgement call rather than reading the form guide.

We backed our judgement and went for it and early results are encouraging.

 

[Ugene41]

Horaceg some people need to vent over everything and struggle to move on.
Reminds me of the time I bought a bag of onions as they were cheaper than the loose ones.
I soon realised they bag up the crap onions.
Every time I buy onions or even walk past them I am reminded of that.
I’m not sure if I will ever really get over it.

Wtf.

Why would you buy a bag of onions to eat now when you could've bought a gift card to buy some potentially better quality onions in 6 months time when it's onion season?

You could've also bought some better onions from your neighbours. You might've needed to pay a bit more but you should've had some money leftover after selling the farm last year to fund your weekly grocery bill.

Think of all the options!

 

[Horaceg]

Wtf.

Why would you buy a bag of onions to eat now when you could've bought a gift card to buy some potentially better quality onions in 6 months time when it's onion season?

You could've also bought some better onions from your neighbours. You might've needed to pay a bit more but you should've had some money leftover after selling the farm last year to fund your weekly grocery bill.

Think of all the options!

I do hope two of our onions turn out better than where we picked them up, sometimes two onions in the hand are better than one one sitting on the shelf.

 

[Ugene41]

I do hope two of our onions turn out better than where we picked them up, sometimes two onions in the hand are better than one one sitting on the shelf.

But the onion sitting on the shelf has a higher price tag so it must be better.

 

[Horaceg]

But the onion sitting on the shelf has a higher price tag so it must be better.

I paid some good money for some G-Star jeans, they fell apart. A high draft pick just makes the odds better they make it.

I think we all agree that in Hindsight we lost but in future Hindsight Pick 2 could be a dud and we have two AA, Premiership players in Poulter and McMahon. Could happen most likely wont.

I'd love to have pick 2 in this draft but I am thankful that we will still have the best kid coming in, something we are desperate for, two would be awesome. Sad fact is we don't and those who gave it away have left but the black and white stripes remain. It's what we do from here that is the important thing.

I do hope the two kids mentioned above are a big part of our future success and we can look at the recent mismanagement down the track and have a laugh.

 

[Ugene41]

I paid some good money for some G-Star jeans, they fell apart. A high draft pick just makes the odds better they make it.

I think we all agree that in Hindsight we lost but in future Hindsight Pick 2 could be a dud and we have two AA, Premiership players in Poulter and McMahon. Could happen most likely wont.

I'd love to have pick 2 in this draft but I am thankful that we will still have the best kid coming in, something we are desperate for, two would be awesome. Sad fact is we don't and those who gave it away have left but the black and white stripes remain. It's what we do from here that is the important thing.

I do hope the two kids mentioned above are a big part of our future success and we can look at the recent mismanagement down the track and have a laugh.

I'm confused now. I thought we were talking about onions?