Siege in Martin Place, Sydney

[Mofra]

You can't have it both ways. If we're all meant to be polite and pretend that the Muslim community are all peace-loving and wonderful people, and pretend the extremists don't exist, or that they're unrepresentative, then ok. But then the left takes the same standard for the wider community and inverts it. How would you feel about a #i'll-ride-with-you-through-western-sydney-so-you-don't-get-suicide-bombed hashtag?

No, it's not black or white - only people who aren't bright need things dumbed down to that level.
it's not all or nothing - there are a minority of people in society (and a cursory glance at this board proves this) who are anti-Muslim and some of those people inject this hatred or fear into everyday interactions.
Nobody is suggesting a widespread campaign by a majority - but if you contact or pass by 10,000 people in a week and 0.01% of people do cross the line, that is still weekly abuse by an ill-informed, backward minority.

Similarly, simply expressing support for a majority of people who want nothing more than to go about their daily lives is not some tacit approval of a minority of muslim who sympathise with backwards terrorist ideals. I have muslim friends, most are quite progressive and some even drink occasionally - why should they be treated differently to myself simply because of some level of belief in some invisible man in the sky?

 

[Mofra]

I think that is Freo's motto on success

Lucky I follow the Bulldogs then who...

... ah, nevermind

 

[sherb]

No, it's not black or white - only people who aren't bright need things dumbed down to that level.
it's not all or nothing - there are a minority of people in society (and a cursory glance at this board proves this) who are anti-Muslim and some of those people inject this hatred or fear into everyday interactions.
Nobody is suggesting a widespread campaign by a majority - but if you contact or pass by 10,000 people in a week and 0.01% of people do cross the line, that is still weekly abuse by an ill-informed, backward minority.

Similarly, simply expressing support for a majority of people who want nothing more than to go about their daily lives is not some tacit approval of a minority of muslim who sympathise with backwards terrorist ideals. I have muslim friends, most are quite progressive and some even drink occasionally - why should they be treated differently to myself simply because of some level of belief in some invisible man in the sky?

The "all or nothing" principle is what has underpinned two of the main objections I have seen in relation to the "illridewithyou" campaign.

1. By focusing on the illridewithyou you are not supporting the true victims.
This assumes that people can only direct empathy in one direction in one amount at a time - ie it's all your empathy to the victims or nothing.
That's rubbish.
Empathy isn't mutually exclusive. It isn't either/or, or all/nothing. There isn't some sort of limit on how much empathy you can dish out or how many people/causes you can direct it to.
And if you direct it to one area that doesn't automatically mean you are giving it some sort of priority over another area.
In my case, I could have easily ridden with a Muslim on public transport and still have been totally devastated by what was happening in Martin Place. And still retained my total empathy and sorrow and sadness for the direct victims.

2. The illridewithyou campaign is labelling all Australians as bigots
Absolute rubbish again, as you have pointed out above and I pointed out in a previous post. So I can't be bothered going over it again.

 

[JeffDunne]

The objection as I see it is to the campaign's main message to Islamic Australians - "we don't blame you".

Some find that objectionable because they do.

 

[scotty88]

Who says Muslim extremists don't exist? Where are you being asked to "pretend" that?

Conversely, the illridewith
you thing doesn't make the assumption that all Australians would indulge in a backlash against Muslims.

Where do you get this shit from? Seriously.

Exactly. How does saying illridewithyou if you feel fearful of possible discrimination and abuse because of racist bigots in the community translate to ALL Australians are racists?

 

[Norwegian Blue]

I was being facetious given this board often groups "lefties" into one single identified mass.

Glad you're on the ball and understood

On this board, telling the difference between someone being facetious and a deeply held belief can be... challenging. Witness the attempt several posts up to identify all bogans as Cronulla rioting racists.

I know plenty of people who'd cheerfully call themselves bogans, hell I've even been called one myself on occasion. To imply that a love of Cold Chisel, flannies, and bourbon and coke makes one a muzzie basher is fairly typical of the resident lefties. So you'll perhaps pardon my confusion.

 

[Mofra]

I know plenty of people who'd cheerfully call themselves bogans, hell I've even been called one myself on occasion. To imply that a love of Cold Chisel, flannies, and bourbon and coke makes one a muzzie basher is fairly typical of the resident lefties. So you'll perhaps pardon my confusion.

I grew up in Footscray - I don't appreciate any denigration of Cold Chisel & flannies thank you very much!

 

[Lester Burnham]

I was being facetious given this board often groups "lefties" into one single identified mass.

Glad you're on the ball and understood

I'm not right wing or Catholic but I joined in with your facetiousness, hence my "lefties" jibe

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

I grew up in Footscray - I don't appreciate any denigration of Cold Chisel & flannies thank you very much!

Don Walker, the songwriting laureate of the male working class experience. You can however, keep your bourbon'n'coke

 

[Malifice]

Really?

Not all white Australians are racist, xenophobic, Muslim bashing bigots either.

Not that you would think that sometimes the way people carry on about this country.

I'm sorry, where have I ever claimed such a thing?

There are bigoted idiots though. Just like there are militant fundamentalists. My point being that this is a forum for discussion of the issues - not a forum for parroting of bigoted racism or fundamentalist ideology.

If that's your thing, there are other forums that might tickle your fancy, where both Islamic fundamentalism and White nationalism are par for the course.

This isn't an anti Islam thread. Its a thread to discuss terrorism. Not all Muslims are terrorists - once you understand that distinction we should be fine.

 

[NSWCROW]

and there it is....

That ********er Ray Hadley blames the left for it.

NOTHING to do with the hate spewed from him and his scum radio mates for years now but......

 

[Mofra]

"Five moments when Aussies shouted down racism"

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...uted-down-racism/story-fnixwvgh-1227159693738

Wait, our right-wing friends said that this doesn't happen in Australia and that #Illridewithyou is a waste of time?

 

[Nankervis brothers]

The objection as I see it is to the campaign's main message to Islamic Australians - "we don't blame you".

Some find that objectionable because they do.

Nail on the head. What so pisses off lunar right wingers like Hadley, Bolt and Devine is that so many Australians have spontaneously and unequivocally said what the federal government will not: holding Islamic beliefs and being a terrorist are entirely different things. It's not a show of unity that the Hadley types want to see....

 

[Gough]

Nail on the head. What so pisses off lunar right wingers like Hadley, Bolt and Devine is that so many Australians have spontaneously and unequivocally said what the federal government will not: holding Islamic beliefs and being a terrorist are entirely different things. It's not a show of unity that the Hadley types want to see....

They're furious because their ability to whip up fear and loathing in the community his been usurped by by the very people they sought to inflame.

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

Did anyone ride with anyone?

I live in the north west of Melbourne. 'tis not an option

 

[Moo]

Did anyone ride with anyone?

I galloped up and down the streets of North Perth on a pure white stallion, sabre held aloft, yelling...

The people of England have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honour.

Ride with me ....hashtag!

No one availed themselves of my offer.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I'll have a go at explaining for you. I find the sentiment that Muslim Australians need someone to "ride with them" to protect them from bigoted, xenophobic, racist rednecks in the wider Australian community to be extremely offensive. It'd be like me suggesting that I need someone to "ride with me" through Western Sydney so I don't get shot and/or blown up by a raghead terrorist extremist.

No it wouldn't. It would be like if there'd been a bombing of a mosque in Western Sydney a day earlier by a man with links to white supremacist groups and a member of the Islamic community saw you by yourself out there on public transport the next day and offered to sit with you. And you could say 'yes' or 'no thanks'. Or maybe it would be like finding the idea of someone giving up their seat on the same public transport offensive.

 

[Run n Spread]

They're furious because their ability to whip up fear and loathing in the community his been usurped by by the very people they sought to inflame.

No one wants loathing in the community. In fact anyone who attacks a law abiding citizen going about there business is scum.

Can't speak for Bolt et al but others are getting extremely pissed off that legitimate concerns are not being acknowledged and debate is being stifled on key elements to suit an agenda. And yes some people are afraid and have every right to be.

What actually further annoys me as Hanson, Bolt, extreme right wing types wil gain a foothold as to spite imo making bad calls on 99% of occasions and pushing an agenda on this case they have read the climate correctly and at least acknowledge what needs acknowledging.

 

[haden1999]

Funnily enough having lived in the ME for 5 years - racism is far, far worse there than here.

what a load of rubbish. God you are full of shit!

 

[Ant_]

what a load of rubbish. God you are full of shit!

Moo's IP used to come up as the Middle East. Why would be he be full of shit?

 

[WA ROO]

I galloped up and down the streets of North Perth on a pure white stallion, sabre held aloft, yelling...

The people of England have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honour.

Ride with me ....hashtag!

No one availed themselves of my offer.

That was you
Well done sir

 

[haden1999]

Moo's IP used to come up as the Middle East. Why would be he be full of shit?

There were a few statements in his post

 

[Ant_]

There were a few statements in his post

Every society has racism, why would his post be false?

 

[haden1999]

Every society has racism, why would his post be false?

......... because he has an agenda, i don't know, why does anyone lie?

 

[SpuriousPea]

what a load of rubbish. God you are full of shit!